Official Tesla Model 3 thread

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mkjayakumar said:
Tesla SuperChargers can charge at a Max rate of 90kW. It doesn't mean they have to or they do charge at that rate. The charge rate is negotiated between the car's BMS and the EVSE, and the actual charge rate will be a lower of the two numbers between these two devices. In fact as the SoC or the battery temp increases, the charge rate decreases progressively and substantially because the car's BMS negotiates a lower charge rate as the battery fills up. So what starts up at 90 kW rate when the battery is near zero will reduce to a trickle approaching 80% and above.

So one could connect a 40 kW battery to a 90kW supercharger and the car's BMS will negotiate a 30 kW charge rate, which will be less than 1C.

This might be a reason why Tesla decided not to have a supercharger access to 40kWh battery, because an hour of charge will give substantially less number of miles in a 40kWh than an 85 kWh, making supercharging much less useful in long distance driving for EVs with smaller packs. You might get 100 miles in a 40kWh Tesla on an hour of supercharging session, which is not enough to cover the distance to the next supercharger to continue your journey.

I agree completely. I think the average consumer isn't going to care about how many kW are being transferred into their car. They just care about adding enough juice to comfortably get to their next destination. So that means that either the 40kWh battery will have to be charged at a stressful 2.25C rate, or the owner is going to be frustrated that they can't get the same benefit out of the supercharger network as the 60kWh/85kWh owners can.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
I agree completely. I think the average consumer isn't going to care about how many kW are being transferred into their car. They just care about adding enough juice to comfortably get to their next destination. So that means that either the 40kWh battery will have to be charged at a stressful 2.25C rate, or the owner is going to be frustrated that they can't get the same benefit out of the supercharger network as the 60kWh/85kWh owners can.
Makes no sense. "Average Consumer" isn't buying an EV - let alone a Model S. Anyone who buys 40 kWh model should know what the limitations are (for eg. now they can't use the super charger !).
 
Related thread over at TeslaMotorsClub:

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10989-Tesla-Model-C-Concept-Design-Study" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
evnow said:
GetOffYourGas said:
I agree completely. I think the average consumer isn't going to care about how many kW are being transferred into their car. They just care about adding enough juice to comfortably get to their next destination. So that means that either the 40kWh battery will have to be charged at a stressful 2.25C rate, or the owner is going to be frustrated that they can't get the same benefit out of the supercharger network as the 60kWh/85kWh owners can.
Makes no sense. "Average Consumer" isn't buying an EV - let alone a Model S. Anyone who buys 40 kWh model should know what the limitations are (for eg. now they can't use the super charger !).

My goodness, you're picky! You remind me of me!

I meant the average EV consumer. And not today's drivers, but those buying in two years from now.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
I meant the average EV consumer. And not today's drivers, but those buying in two years from now.

Irrespective of who the consumer is - people realize that when you buy a smaller range car, it will go shorter distance. That is absolutely no reason to restrict supercharging.
 
Supercharging feature on smaller batteries only leads to high expectations and inevitable frustration and disappointment, on two aspects:

one, it really does not give them the ability for road travel.
two, it will accelerate battery degradation.
 
mkjayakumar said:
Supercharging feature on smaller batteries only leads to high expectations and inevitable frustration and disappointment, on two aspects:

one, it really does not give them the ability for road travel.
two, it will accelerate battery degradation.

One, it does give the ability to do some one day road trips. Basically QC can double your range.
Two, as we discussed above, if the charging rate is kept the same (and # of QCs), 40 lWh battery won't degrade any faster.

BTW, what I'd have liked Tesla to do is to give a CHaDEMO adapter, more than the supercharger capability.
 
Boomer23 said:
Just so we're on the same page, are we assuming that this is the same project that has been internally designated as "Bluestar" within Tesla corporate?

To answer my own question, "No". From reading the Tesla forum, the Bluestar car, more commonly called "Gen III" is probably a different project from this "Model C" design exercise.
 
Tesla's "Bluestar" project could be called "Model 3". They are targeting BMW 3 series, perhaps a small 4 door sedan.

The C concept looks a bit smaller than what I expect them to do for "Gen III".

We may see a Model S based pickup and/or mini-van from Tesla (as well as Model X) before Bluestar gets done.
 
evnow said:
BTW, what I'd have liked Tesla to do is to give a CHaDEMO adapter, more than the supercharger capability.
I'll drink to that, except I'd like to see the CHAdeMO adapter in addition to the supercharger. I'm concerned that it is going to be awhile before superchargers cross the Siskiyous or the Columbia.

Bill
 
Model E could make its official debut at the 2015 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Tesla confirmed Friday. It would begin selling in 2016 or 2017.

A nail in Leaf's coffin?
 
If they can actually do it at the purported price, it will be some serious competition, yes...

ILETRIC said:
Model E could make its official debut at the 2015 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Tesla confirmed Friday. It would begin selling in 2016 or 2017.
A nail in Leaf's coffin?
 
I don't see the point in comparing today's 2014 LEAF to a hypothetical 2017 Tesla Model E from a feature OR price point perspective. In addition, no matter how well Tesla executes they can't build every kind of car that every kind of person is going to want. There will always be room for an assortment of car manufacturers, whether we're talking ICE or BEV.

--Carter
 
crabasa said:
I don't see the point in comparing today's 2014 LEAF to a hypothetical 2017 Tesla Model E from a feature OR price point perspective. In addition, no matter how well Tesla executes they can't build every kind of car that every kind of person is going to want. There will always be room for an assortment of car manufacturers, whether we're talking ICE or BEV.

--Carter

+1
 
As much as I love Tesla, they're doing what has already been done before to great effect...

* Apple: On such and such a date, we're going to release <great product>...Competitor sales on similar products immediately drop or stop...Apple wins, even if their product is late or costs more.

* Samsung: On such and such a date, we're going to release a new version of <phone product>. It is going to be so great, with all these great features...Competitor sales on similar products immediately slow down in anticipation...Samsung wins...Product is eventually released, and it was just like the old product with a couple of new things...

Tesla has already talked about the new car, the price point, the range, etc. The battery will have to get much cheaper, so they're making plans for that. The cost of the E will have to be 1/3 of the Model S to meet what they've promised. Will it have the same features or be as nice? Probably not. Will the cost of the options raise it up considerably higher than the promised price? Probably...But they are already killing sales of other EVs because people are waiting for this magic Model E. While I would love for them to be successful and deliver the car for what they've been talking about, my bet is that a nicely equipped E will be substantially higher than what they've been talking about...They could even have a smaller battery for the "Standard" price...

If a nicely equipped E is $55-60K and the next gen LEAF with more features and whatever battery they come up with is in the same ballpark price ($35-38K), it's not really comparing apples to apples...
 
ILETRIC said:
Model E could make its official debut at the 2015 North American International Auto Show in Detroit, Tesla confirmed Friday. It would begin selling in 2016 or 2017.

A nail in Leaf's coffin?

Model X was introduced over 2 years ago. Still waiting for the final specs, much less a car.
 
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