Do-It-Yourself Solar System

It appears that there are several members here over the course of the years that had researched and built their own or had ordered different solar systems. I would be thrilled to hear from them in regards to what would they have done differently nowadays.
Me personally - I am trying to figure out how to offset my carbon footprint and become as green as possible. My electric provider doesn't participate in any of the rebates programs so I am trying to built as big of a system as I can and make it financially viable.

So first - location - would like to stay away from the roof - was told in the past that I would have to remove my current concrete shingles, install asphalt ones and than put solar panels on top of them - seems irrational to me and would add additional cost to install. I do have south facing patio and was contemplating building some kind of a roof there. I had seen these - http://www.lumossolar.com/solar-products/awnings-and-carports/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and decided to try and build similarly looking awning over my porch.

Second - size of the system. My yearly consumption is around 11 000 kwh, plus my newly added Leaf at around 4 000 kwh per year - used that calculator - http://sroeco.com/solar/calculate-solar-cost/what_size_solar_system_do_i_need/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - should build array ranked at around 11 kwh. Now I need to match available square footage with the above mentioned production. My understanding - 100 sq feet of the panel would generate 1 kwh of energy - and some of the newest panels would go up to almost 2 kwh per 100 sq feet - but would most likely be considerably more expensive. Have construction guys coming this week to make the measurements and figure out square footage of my patio roof - and than try to figure out which panels to choose from.

Third - orientation of the panels - would be nice to come up with a way to adjust the angle of the whole roof at least twice a year - for the summer at 12 degrees angle and for the winter at 60 degrees - that is based upon my location at Denver, CO and the guide here - http://www.macslab.com/optsolar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Not sure whether its' a viable solution since it would most likely increase the price of the roof significantly with unknown to me improvement in production. That's were I am at the moment.

Fourth - choosing of the actual hardware - a lot of it going to depend on my most likely limited roof space. At the same time I woud like to hear about ranking of the panels based upon their warranty, years of production, manufacturer's reliability etc. Also - what kind of inverters, wiring, metering should we choose for the project?

Viktor said:

Second - size of the system. My yearly consumption is around 11 kwh, plus my newly added Leaf at around 4 kwh per year - used that calculator - http://sroeco.com/solar/calculate-solar-cost/what_size_solar_system_do_i_need/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - should build array ranked at around 11 kwh.

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I think you mean daily not yearly.

Oops - thank U - edited

I was misled by the subject title.

Nubo said:

I was misled by the subject title.

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Viktor said:

It appears that there are several members here over the course of the years that had researched and built their own or had ordered different solar systems.

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I built our system using a kit from an online company that seems to no longer exist. My experience was a good one and we are pleased with the outcome. Our Enphase-based system is linked in my signature below.

Viktor said:

I would be thrilled to hear from them in regards to what would they have done differently nowadays.

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I would do the same thing as before, although I would now choose the new Enphase microinverters that have higher power capability and the same 25-year warranty that the panels come with. I would also move up to about 260W 60-cell panels if they are affordable.

Viktor said:

Me personally - I am trying to figure out how to offset my carbon footprint and become as green as possible. My electric provider doesn't participate in any of the rebates programs so I am trying to built as big of a system as I can and make it financially viable.

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We got the federal rebate and netmetering, nothing else.

Viktor said:

So first - location - would like to stay away from the roof - was told in the past that I would have to remove my current concrete shingles, install asphalt ones and than put solar panels on top of them - seems irrational to me and would add additional cost to install. I do have south facing patio and was contemplating building some kind of a roof there. I had seen these - http://www.lumossolar.com/solar-products/awnings-and-carports/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and decided to try and build similarly looking awning over my porch.

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Please see below discussion about elevation angle.

Viktor said:

Second - size of the system. My yearly consumption is around 11 000 kwh, plus my newly added Leaf at around 4 000 kwh per year - used that calculator - http://sroeco.com/solar/calculate-solar-cost/what_size_solar_system_do_i_need/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - should build array ranked at around 11 kwh. Now I need to match available square footage with the above mentioned production. My understanding - 100 sq feet of the panel would generate 1 kwh of energy - and some of the newest panels would go up to almost 2 kwh per 100 sq feet - but would most likely be considerably more expensive. Have construction guys coming this week to make the measurements and figure out square footage of my patio roof - and than try to figure out which panels to choose from.

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Our system produces just under the 15MWh/year that you are quoting. You may be able to get away with a little smaller size due to higher elevation, but probably not much.

Viktor said:

Third - orientation of the panels - would be nice to come up with a way to adjust the angle of the whole roof at least twice a year - for the summer at 12 degrees angle and for the winter at 60 degrees - that is based upon my location at Denver, CO and the guide here - http://www.macslab.com/optsolar.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Not sure whether its' a viable solution since it would most likely increase the price of the roof significantly with unknown to me improvement in production. That's were I am at the moment.

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We had a seesaw type of mount built from galvanized pipe for our off-grid system that we built 13 years ago. It allows us to change the elevation of our array twice each year, similar to what you are wanting to do. That said, that array was only 2880Wp. I do not think I would want to build and adjust a 10kW array as you will likely need due to the size, cost and amount of adjustment that will be needed twice a year. My recommendation would be to pick a fixed angle which gives you optimum year-round production and build a shed under it. 30 degrees elevation tends to work well at lattitudes like ours and cleans itself fairly well when it rains.

Viktor said:

Fourth - choosing of the actual hardware - a lot of it going to depend on my most likely limited roof space. At the same time I woud like to hear about ranking of the panels based upon their warranty, years of production, manufacturer's reliability etc. Also - what kind of inverters, wiring, metering should we choose for the project?

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I'm a little confused, as you previously said you want to stay away from the roof.

We used Sharp panels built in Kentucky and Enphase inverters built in China. We are happy with both. Roof racking is from Unirac, and this has worked well for us, also. I know nothing about concrete shingles, so I cannot comment on them. We replaced our entire roof with high-quality asphalt shingles just prior to installing our PV system.

I hope this is helpful to you. Please let me know if you would like more details or pictures, etc.

Nubo said:

I was misled by the subject title.

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Lovely!

Can U comment on the financial part of your system - do U see it paying for itself within 10 years or so?

I meant roof over the patio - basically just as little of support as I need to accomodate the panels and potential snow accumulation. Speaking of which - most would probably use wood for the base to place the panel on? How many wires do I need to hide up there? Do I just use regular metal tubing to protect the wires? What size electric cables do we need?

Hardware wise - what meters do U use - specific models if possible? Apparently some of them would make U pay for the electricity U generate ((

Issues of microinverters vs the old ones - why micro?

And at the end - can U post pictures of your system?

Viktor said:

Can U comment on the financial part of your system - do U see it paying for itself within 10 years or so?

I meant roof over the patio - basically just as little of support as I need to accomodate the panels and potential snow accumulation. Speaking of which - most would probably use wood for the base to place the panel on? How many wires do I need to hide up there? Do I just use regular metal tubing to protect the wires? What size electric cables do we need?

Hardware wise - what meters do U use - specific models if possible? Apparently some of them would make U pay for the electricity U generate ((

Issues of microinverters vs the old ones - why micro?

And at the end - can U post pictures of your system?

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I have a heavily shaded system in WA and through a combination of the federal and state incentives will still have a break even point well under 10 years.

The M215 Enphase Microinverter has a 25 year warranty/etc. compared to the previous generation M190/M210/etc.

The Enphase microinverters track their power production themselves and with an Enphase Envoy they report it to the internet.

As for meters, the utility company handles installing the proper meter. Here are the details on net metering in Colorado: http://www.dsireusa.org/incentives/incentive.cfm?Incentive_Code=CO26R" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is my system: https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/2Kkg31401" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And that particular microinverters is suitable for those high powered 250wt panels. I had seen them at approximately 1$ per watt.

My issue - I want frameless panels to go on top of my porch - its more esthetically pleasing, they would need to be able to filter sun also - to provide needed shade. I had spoken today with this people - http://www.lumossolar.com/content/pdf/LSXCanopy-2012.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - they quoted me the ball park of 5$ per watt installed . They use those Lumos panels that are apparently covered with tempered glass and should withstand 90 miles winds - what about other panels - are all of them covered with protective glass? Are warranties usually comparable - 10/25 years?
Anyone had issues with hail damage? Would solar panel increase your insurance premium for the house?

Viktor said:

Can U comment on the financial part of your system - do U see it paying for itself within 10 years or so?

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No, not at the current price of electricity here: 10.5c/kWh. That said, when I bought our Honda Civic Hybrid in April 2002 gasoline cost $1.65/gal. I calculated that it would take about 100,000 miles at $2.00/gal. to pay back the $4000 difference in price between the Hybrid and the normal Civic. After 11 years we have only driven the car 89,000 miles, but gasoline is now at $3.19/gal., so I'm pretty sure it has paid back the extra expense.

With Obama pushing the EPA to require coal-fired electricity providers to greatly clean up their power plants, I expect the price of electricity in this area of the country to undergo big price increases within the next 10 years, so I expect our payback will be much shorter than the current calculated time of 20 years.

Viktor said:

I meant roof over the patio - basically just as little of support as I need to accomodate the panels and potential snow accumulation. Speaking of which - most would probably use wood for the base to place the panel on?

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Well, our roof is wood, but it is covered with black paper and asphalt shingles. None of the structure above the shingles is wood. It is all extruded aluminum and stainless steel.

Viktor said:

How many wires do I need to hide up there?

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One cable and one wire for each string of panels/inverters. The cable carries L1, L2 and Neutral and there is a requirement for a bare copper ground wire.

Viktor said:

Do I just use regular metal tubing to protect the wires?

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On the roof, none of the wires are protected. They are all outdoor rated. Under the roof, the requirements for conduit depend on the environment and the type of wiring you are using.

Viktor said:

What size electric cables do we need?

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The bare ground is 6 AWG while the other wires in our system are 14 AWG to the panel. Enphase has improved this aspect and the new system uses 12 AWG for wiring the strings.

Viktor said:

Hardware wise - what meters do U use - specific models if possible?

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Each Enphase inverter contains its own meter and communicates with a central unit over the power lines. As a result, there is a lot of information about power, voltage and current collected and stored for each panel.

Viktor said:

Apparently some of them would make U pay for the electricity U generate ((

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Yes, we had one of those on our house when we first installed our system. You can see on the webpage for our system that we had an outage between February 2011 and June 2011. This was due to the old meter charging us for power flowing either direction through the meter. It's a long story, but that problem was resolved and all is well now.

Viktor said:

Issues of microinverters vs the old ones - why micro?

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Reliability is the main difference. You can expect to replace all central inverters after about 10 years, at which time the inverters you purchase today will likely no longer be available. Microinverters should have a 30 year life (guaranteed for 25) and have a calculated MTBF over 300 years and the *actual* MTBF is known by Enphase because they monitor a large percentage of the installed product. PV panels have an MTBF on the order of 600 years. So for our 42-panel array, I expect to have about 1 failed PV panel and 2 failed microinverters after 20 years. I have had one microinverter fail to date, but that may have been an infantile failure (not supposed to be considered in MTBF), but I am not sure. It was replaced at no cost to me. They updated the firmware in all of our microinverters while we were investigating, and I seem to have better solar production than I did before the failure, so I'm happy!

Viktor said:

And at the end - can U post pictures of your system?

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Here is one:

Viktor said:

And that particular microinverters is suitable for those high powered 250wt panels. I had seen them at approximately 1$ per watt.

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The M215 microinverters are recommended for 60-cell panels between 190W and 260W.

Viktor said:

My issue - I want frameless panels to go on top of my porch - its more esthetically pleasing, they would need to be able to filter sun also - to provide needed shade. I had spoken today with this people - http://www.lumossolar.com/content/pdf/LSXCanopy-2012.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; - they quoted me the ball park of 5$ per watt installed .

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Those are nice looking!

It appears those solar panels may be 72-cell panels, which will not work with the M215. The older M190s will work with 72-cell panels, but those are only recommended for power levels up to 230W. You can use them with higher-power panels, but you may get more clipping when it is cold, particularly if you are at higher elevations. Also, the microinverters will block some of the light filtering through the array.

Viktor said:

They use those Lumos panels that are apparently covered with tempered glass and should withstand 90 miles winds - what about other panels - are all of them covered with protective glass?

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Most use tempered glass and are designed to withstand 1" hail. My panels are rated for pressures of 50 psf, whatever that equates to in wind.

Viktor said:

Are warranties usually comparable - 10/25 years?

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Yes, 25 years is normal for PV these days.

Viktor said:

Anyone had issues with hail damage?

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I haven't had large hail since the array was installed. Of course the risk is higher when the angle is flatter.

Viktor said:

Would solar panel increase your insurance premium for the house?

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Good question!

Federal rebate of 30% - would that apply to the cost of building awning? What if I am to extend my patio in order to produce more electricity - would that also be covered?

Any suggestions for other "good looking panels"?

My understanding - there is only marginal - up to 5-10% increase in energy production with optimal angle of the panels in comparison to 10-12 degrees constant angulation. So I would plan to do 12 degrees and be done with it. The only issue - what if we are to get a foot of snow - would panels be sturdy enough to withstand it? What about 3 feet?

Viktor said:

It appears that there are several members here over the course of the years that had researched and built their own or had ordered different solar systems. I would be thrilled to hear from them in regards to what would they have done differently nowadays.
Me personally - I am trying to figure out how to offset my carbon footprint and become as green as possible. My electric provider doesn't participate in any of the rebates programs so I am trying to built as big of a system as I can and make it financially viable.

...

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Let's pull the brake on the cart and move the horse from behind it for a bit.

What changes have you made in your house or lifestyle to conserve energy? Every $1 you spend in efficiency will save about $4 in your PV system.

Let's start there.

AndyH said:

Let's pull the brake on the cart and move the horse from behind it for a bit.

What changes have you made in your house or lifestyle to conserve energy? Every $1 you spend in efficiency will save about $4 in your PV system.

Let's start there.

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We can definitely discuss attic insullation - isn't it what you are referring to? You got my vote - start the topic

Viktor said:

AndyH said:

Let's pull the brake on the cart and move the horse from behind it for a bit.

What changes have you made in your house or lifestyle to conserve energy? Every $1 you spend in efficiency will save about $4 in your PV system.

Let's start there.

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We can definitely discuss attic insullation - isn't it what you are referring to? You got my vote - start the topic

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Victor - I'm opening the topic. Maybe you've already done this, maybe not, but I don't think we know.

Insulation, efficient windows, awnings/plantings to shade south/west sides, insulation on north windows, CFL's or LED, Energy Star appliances, water pipe insulation, light-colored roof... Let the fun begin! Any/all of these will reduce your energy demand. It might be good to start with an energy audit - have a certified tech check for leaks, duct sealing, doors and windows, etc. These are often supported by local utility companies as well.

What's your largest problem - heating or cooling? edit...gack, sorry, Centennial CO - a bit of both!

Sunroom or other passive-solar space?

Here's a nice overall site with info, examples, pictures, prices, etc. from the DIY side of things: http://www.builditsolar.com/ This might be too DIY for you, I don't know. I think their passive solar overview 'book' is a good place to start: http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/SolarHomes/PasSolEnergyBk/PSEbook.htm

Good Hunting!

Link?

Viktor said:

Link?

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To what?

Your new post?