Meeting with Nissan, Phoenix, Jan 8, 2013, 6pm, drinks prior

So who was shooting the video and will the video be released so that those of us who couldn't attend can still see the meeting?

Looks like the circus came to town. Complete with dancing bears, no less. Not impressed. :roll:

+1

Did they answer any of Chelsea's compiled questions, or was this really just a PR move? Not impressed if just a PR stunt.

Well, you guys are quick to dismiss without having heard a word. Yes, it is PR. That's your modern world. But, many of you may be interested to know that both of those speaking (Andy and Billy) personally drive a LEAF at home.

Many of the modifications to the 2013 were direct results of user input. The North American battery does have a slightly different chemistry than Japan (sorry, no hard tech data).

I found everybody involved from Nissan to be quite personable and seemingly forthright. Of course, that doesn't mean they gave away state secrets or said something that the legal department told them not to say. That's also the modern world.

Still no price on the battery and no hard printed capacity warranty. Expect both in the comings months.

I must give them credit for coming to a potentially hostile crowd and stating their case. They could just as easily hide behind Press Releases and let the lawyers handle the fallout.

bradbissell said:

Did they answer any of Chelsea's compiled questions, or was this really just a PR move? Not impressed if just a PR stunt.

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Chelsea's list of compiled questions was skipped entirely. They started out by making their own statements about 3 main areas of concern then moved directly into taking questions from the audience.

Where is all the anger?.. I see lots of smiles in the pictures.

I would like to hear Chelsea's take on this meeting. I enjoyed the camaraderie, but the meeting was not what I was expecting !

berenger said:

is the 6.6kwh standard now or an option?
Is there a way to get rid of the OK accept each time you enter the car?

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The 6.6kW charger is optional on the stripped model, also a display is optional so you dont have to stare at that Ok question if you choose the stripped model

TonyWilliams said:

Well, you guys are quick to dismiss without having heard a word. Yes, it is PR. That's your modern world.

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Well, I was there and I heard every word, and I still dismiss the meeting as useless for me. I think the main reason for having a meeting, specifically in Phoenix, should not have been just PR, but should have been to make a focus on special assurances with hot climate owners that Nissan has their back after making false claims about heat not being an issue with their battery in hot climate, and to make it right to the affected owners somehow. Nothing of the sort was achieved.

TonyWilliams said:

Many of the modifications to the 2013 were direct results of user input. The North American battery does have a slightly different chemistry than Japan (sorry, no hard tech data).

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Sure, but user inputs to improve future model years can easily be done via many different medium and Nissan executives shouldn't have to travel to Phoenix to do this. The main reason for Nissan execs to travel to Phoenix should have been to address the heat issue in AZ specifically, and how to remedy it properly with AZ owners. That should have been the main goal of the town hall, and it totally fell short.

TonyWilliams said:

I must give them credit for coming to a potentially hostile crowd and stating their case. They could just as easily hide behind Press Releases and let the lawyers handle the fallout.

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They don't get the credit from me for coming in to have a town hall in Phoenix just for show and not having a serious discussion about an effective remedy for the battery heat issue for Phoenix owners. If anything, they totally wasted my time because I didn't hear anything new from them that would help solve my battery issue with the heat.

Herm said:

Where is all the anger?.. I see lots of smiles in the pictures.

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I gotta say that the Phoenix crowd was VERY much more cordial and civilized to the Nissan execs than I thought they would be. But there was underlying and suppressed emotion for sure, because at times, something somebody said that struck a chord with the audience elicited prompted applaud from the crowd. One time even a couple of people from the crowd stood up to applaud a sharp point being made for Nissan.

vrwl said:

So who was shooting the video and will the video be released so that those of us who couldn't attend can still see the meeting?

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I wrote out a response and then it was deleted by the wonders of accidentally back-spacing.

I am at work, so to provide an abbreviated comment and get back to work:

I asked before the meeting began if I could/should record by phone and they said please no, but that it would be videotaped and (hopefully) put online. That kind of brings home that this was a gutsy move by Nissan to have this meeting at all.

As to what is on the 2 hour, no breaks (!) town hall meeting, maybe 60-90% was spent on the inter-related questions of:

Battery Warranty
inadequacy of using 'bars" to define warranty especically when some drivers have experienced severe range loss but not the same amount of bar loss. Overall hard questions about "bars" in general.
Making sure that Nissan has an overall sense of the experience of hot climate drivers
Concerns about resale value.
etc.

Some other questions, including discussion of Nissan stepping up on deploying their own chargers, how many in the ground.

I want to avoid trying to provide a proper summary since I need to get back to work. I will say that what may make the video a bit annoying to watch (constantly coming back to the basic problem/issue) is also, arguably, what made the meeting useful and productive, which is I think there needed to be some gradual breaking down of the issues and breaking down of barriers. The learning process for Nissan execs was, in theory, a big part of the reason for the meeting, and maybe they needed to hear this or that, not just at the beginning, but by the end of the meeting... many people remarking throughout something to the effect that "but I'm not the only one, and I'm really hoping you come away understanding that".

Those who weren't there might get frustrated with the failure to ask the question that they focused on. I didn't ask mine except in chat afterward. I think this particular Town Hall those with that particular issue of range loss due to heat were I think front-and-center. I think there will be other Town Halls?

Overall, I'd say the meeting was a good one, not in the sense of necessarily answering all questions satisfactorily, but helping move us further along. Personally, I told Andy when I first got there when I met him that I was not there to give Nissan a hard time, but to help them, and I meant it, and I thought one salient point of the meeting was observing that some of the most terribly frustrated Phoenix drivers rose to the occassion and debated/articulated/argued very well, and with some persistence appropriate to the matter to them, but clearly kept in mind their regard for the car and appreciation for the opportunity to have the communiation.

vrwl said:

So who was shooting the video and will the video be released so that those of us who couldn't attend can still see the meeting?

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One specific point that was made by more than one driver:

Measuing loss of "Bars" does not equate sufficiently to loss of real-world range. One frustrated driver at the end had only lost two bars, and so under Nissan's warranty would not qualify for any help, but he had dropped something like 94 to fifty-something miles in real-world range? I forget his exact numbers. This matter of the bar-based warranty not being of sufficient use to drivers was reiterated several times.

At the end a Tucson driver practically begged Nissan to provide kWh information (I can't remember his exact point), which made me smile a bit.

TickTock said:

3) rear headrests - improved (although not quite as nice as those on the Leafs sold in Japan)

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That's a nice improvement I hadn't expected. Would anyone happen to have a pic?

Thanks

Ingineer said:

rborba said:

Phil: How did the LEAFScan SoC compare with the new SoC% displayed on the 2013 dashboard?

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The dash read 60% when I took that picture. 60% != 62.25%, so they must be padding the ends to make 0% "empty" and 100% "full".

-Phil

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169/281= 60.1%
Do you think they are using gids?

cwerdna said:

^^^
Maybe seeing the '13 Leaf was the highlight of the event?

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Don't be silly. The highlight was meeting Chelsea!

TonyWilliams said:

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Thanks for all the pics, Tony!

Who brought the Model S?

RegGuheert said:

Who brought the Model S?

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Rolf Lohr from the Phoenix EAA chapter. Has raised a number of good points during the meeting too.

TickTock said:

Also, rear headrests are about 1" shorter.

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So .... they're still too tall. Back into the trunk, until rear passengers use em. Guess it's too complex to have the all too common completely collapsible ones used. (sigh) Maybe by 2020 ... I should live so long.

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