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dgpcolorado
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Sat Feb 16, 2013 3:23 pm

cwerdna wrote:
vrwl wrote: What is your m/kWh reading on the dash? Is it reset for every trip?
On this note, IIRC, it's been established that the dash (black and white LCD in the instrument cluster) m/kWh reading is the one to look at, right? I remember hearing that CarWings was a liar and used to be way off. Not sure about now...
With the exception of some older cars that may need a firmware update, the console (Carwings) mileage efficiency meter reads about 0.1 mile/kWh higher than the dash one. The difference isn't significant for diagnosing range problems.
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cwerdna
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 2:47 pm

^^^
Interesting. Thanks!

Anyone have any more? Anyone want to volunteer to compile/craft all the questions and own it? I can take a stab at better questions based on feedback so far, but not owning a Leaf yet doesn't make the best person to own it, in case there need to be updates/refinements.

What I read at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 04#p268304" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; was disturbing but also makes me wonder what % of Leaf owners/lessees are just as clueless, esp. given the stories about BS dealers are feeding some folks. I posted a reply that needs to be approved but it seems that didn't happen. But, that thread seems like it's in the wrong area anyway.

I can think of at least person (w/o naming names) who has posted here in the past who didn't seem to understand the GOM and at least two people who have posted range complaints where it was difficult or impossible to get the info out of them that we needed...

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edatoakrun
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 3:20 pm

dgpcolorado wrote:
cwerdna wrote:
vrwl wrote: What is your m/kWh reading on the dash? Is it reset for every trip?
On this note, IIRC, it's been established that the dash (black and white LCD in the instrument cluster) m/kWh reading is the one to look at, right? I remember hearing that CarWings was a liar and used to be way off. Not sure about now...
With the exception of some older cars that may need a firmware update, the console (Carwings) mileage efficiency meter reads about 0.1 mile/kWh higher than the dash one. The difference isn't significant for diagnosing range problems.
Actually, though both reset at different rates as you drive, I think Dash m/kWh multiplied by the the same common CW odometer error of ~2.5 % will always match the Nav screen, so the difference between the two usually shows as 0.2 m/kWh, when your m/kWh exceed ~6 m/KWh.

If you look at your CW records, you will probably find that the ~2.5% understatement of miles driven divided by the CW reported kWh use always reproduces the m/kWh shown on your dash.

The correct Nav screen m/kWh report is the correct dash odometer miles divided by the correct (perhaps) CW kWh consumption numbers.

At least it always has been so for my LEAF...
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cwerdna
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:20 pm

^^^
For the sake of simplicity and having everyone being on the same page, is having them reset and report the dash (black and white LCD in the instrument cluster) m/kWh value sufficient?

Is this what most Leafers use and thus be a good basis of comparison?

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TonyWilliams
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 8:24 pm

cwerdna wrote:^^^
For the sake of simplicity and having everyone being on the same page, is having them reset and report the dash (black and white LCD in the instrument cluster) m/kWh value sufficient?

Is this what most Leafers use and thus be a good basis of comparison?
That is what I always recommend. It simple, and it's right in front of you. The Range Chart is based on this value.

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:20 pm

sorry reading this from phone but have you started a questionnaire yet? if so, did not see it.

but i would start with the basics

where do you live?
how far is your daily commute?
any geography comments, terrain, hills, excessive wind?
how much do you use the heat?
how fast do you drive?

do you practice any hypermiling techniques? such

greater following distances
anticipating traffic and or lights
driving slower, etc
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TonyWilliams
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:25 pm

LEAF Range Data Run


Checklist before the data collecting run:

1. (your answer) Any changes to car from stock (different tires, bike rack, Texas cattle horns, etc)
2. (your answer) Tire pressures set, heater and air conditioning off, car at 100% charge, cells allowed time to balance
3. (your answer) Gross vehicle weight? 3350 pounds plus operator, passengers, spare tire, bags, concrete, etc
4. (your answer) Route, length, elevation, hills if any, general conditions (dry, concrete/asphalt, etc)
5. (your answer) Assumed or measured battery temp (from LEAFscan tool)
6. (your answer) Ambient air temp
7. (your answer) Gid count at start, if available
8. (your answer) SOC, if available (from LEAFscan)
9. (your answer) Starting total voltage (should be 393.5v from GidMeter or LEAFscan tools)
10. (your answer) Accept CarWings on Nav screen startup by pressing OK

Data to record:

1. (your answer) Outbound steady speed (confirm with cruise control on)
2. (your answer) Outbound observed steady speed miles/kWh from Nav adjusted -0.1
3. (your answer) Inbound steady speed (confirm with cruise control on)
4. (your answer) Inbound observed steady speed miles/kWh from Nav adjusted -0.1
5. (your answer) Miles at Low Battery Warning
6. (your answer) Miles at Very Low Battery
7. (your answer) Overall miles covered to Turtle
8. (your answer) Overall miles/kWh from dash economy display
9. (your answer) Calculated battery useable energy (miles / miles/kWh = battery kWh)
10.(your answer) Ending pack voltage, SOC, and Gid (350v-ish from GidMeter or LEAFscan tools)

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vrwl
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Tue Feb 19, 2013 10:50 pm

cwerdna wrote:
vrwl wrote: What is your m/kWh reading on the dash? Is it reset for every trip?
On this note, IIRC, it's been established that the dash (black and white LCD in the instrument cluster) m/kWh reading is the one to look at, right? I remember hearing that CarWings was a liar and used to be way off. Not sure about now...
Based on everything I've read here in the past 8 months, I'd say yes, the dash.
TonyWilliams wrote: 1. (your answer) Any changes to car from stock (different tires, bike rack, Texas cattle horns, etc)
LOL on the horns!
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cwerdna
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:33 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:sorry reading this from phone but have you started a questionnaire yet? if so, did not see it.
I had an initial stab at it in the 1st post. Sorry, haven't had a chance to compile and come up with better questions. Others are welcome and encouraged to do so and own it.

Tony's post at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.p ... 13#p268613" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; looks like a good template for a range test, but I don't think it's a good starting point for a range complaint. Range test can come later, if needed.

Re: the changes to the car, those are all valid questions. Haha about the horns. I've seen some folks in the East Bay have flags of their favorite sports teams jutting out the window. That will definitely increase drag.

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cwerdna
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Re: questionnaire for "short" range/range loss complainers?

Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:06 pm

Ok, here's my a stab on the questions. I'm going to edit my 1st post to point to this one, w/the current questions.

- Where are you?
- Where are you traveling to? Via what route?

If unwilling to answer the above, you'll need to tell us the distances and whether there's any net elevation change (Google Earth can help you with that. See http://priuschat.com/forums/freds-house ... oints.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.).

- How fast are you driving? What % is city vs. highway?
- What is your miles/kWh reading on the dash? (on the black and white display) Is it reset for every trip? If not, please do so.
- How full are you charging to? (for '13+ Leafs, list the % state of charge value)
- How are you "determining" your range? Examples: driving down to some value on the GOM (guess-o-meter aka virtually worthless "distance to empty" display), driving down to a certain # of "fuel bars", driving to LBW (Low Battery Warning), VLBW (Very Low Battery Warning) or turtle, driving down to a certain # of gids, driving down to a certain % state of charge (SoC) value ('13+ Leaf only)
- How many temperature bars (left side) are shown at the start of the drive and during?
- What are your cold tire pressures?
- Can this experience be reliably repeated?
- After how many months of ownership did you first experience the range loss?
- Outside air temps when this is happening?
- How are you using the heater/AC system?
- When cold, are you using the heated seats and steering wheel?
- Did you buy the vehicle new or used and when? (month and year is enough) What model year is it?
- How many capacity bars have you lost? They're the thin bars on the very right of http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... acity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. That one shows 3 capacity bars lost.
- Any changes to car from stock (different tires, bike rack, Texas cattle horns, roof rack, flags, etc)?
- (If you have a gid meter) Gid count at 100% charge? Date and outside temp when taken?

If unclear about some of the terminology/acronyms (e.g. GOM, LBW), see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... e=Glossary" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.
Last edited by cwerdna on Sat Dec 27, 2014 7:44 pm, edited 5 times in total.

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'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

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