Why is the 240V charging station hardwired ? The answer is..

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evnow

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http://blogs.edmunds.com/greencaradvisor/2009/08/gm-shows-off-the-rest-of-it-unveils-volt-charging-systems-at-plug-in-confab.html

The 240-volt system won't fit in the trunk compartment, but that's okay because national electrical codes require the system to be a permanent installation, hard-wired to the incoming power source rather than attached with a wall plug.

That's not because authorities fear that Americans will fry themselves right and left with a 240-volt system, but rather than the wall plugs available (think of the triple-pronged plug on an electric clothes drier or electric oven) aren't designed to be inserted and removed hundreds of times as could be the case with a portable 240-volt car-charging system.

Imagine that. Instead of a better made plug that would cost $10 more, we are required to hardwire the station for $2,000.
 
ah yes, but I see no reason why the EVSE itself can't be plugged into a 50A dryer outlet, it will stay connected most of the time in your garage. If you go on a road trip, unplug it and put it in the trunk, hoping where you go has a 50A dryer outlet (most campgrounds do to accomadate RVs)
 
mitch672 said:
ah yes, but I see no reason why the EVSE itself can't be plugged into a 50A dryer outlet

Too bad we can't have the simple equivalent of the 120v EVSE connector with a plug on it for 240v opportunity charging.

Seems like lugging the whole massive EVSE box around just to provide a plug for opportunity charing your car is a little silly.
 
That's why there are likely to be some third party portable cord sets developed, of course it will still only be the 3.3kw charger built into the Leaf, so I imagine even more creative third party higher power chargers that use the DC port to also come out.
 
mitch672 said:
That's why there are likely to be some third party portable cord sets developed, of course it will still only be the 3.3kw charger built into the Leaf, so I imagine even more creative third party higher power chargers that use the DC port to also come out.

Haha! With a puny 3.3Kw charger on-board, might as well use something like this:
http://www.freeplayenergy.com/product/weza

Or this:
http://www.potenco.com/

:D
 
Complete BS about the plug being the reason. So the plug that goes into the car can be used repeatedly and the laws of physics prevent the same type of setup from being on the wall.
 
EVDRIVER said:
Complete BS about the plug being the reason. So the plug that goes into the car can be used repeatedly and the laws of physics prevent the same type of setup from being on the wall.

I agree, the reason is BS, but at least the plug going into the car will have a 'trigger-latch' designed to hold it in should the fit begin to widen due to misuse. Dryer plugs will fall out if the fit starts loosening.
 
EVDRIVER said:
So the plug that goes into the car can be used repeatedly and the laws of physics prevent the same type of setup from being on the wall.

I guess what they are saying is the 240v plug is designed (and certified) for small # of inserts - where as the J-1772 plug is designed & certified for a large number of them.
 
Jimmydreams said:
EVDRIVER said:
Complete BS about the plug being the reason. So the plug that goes into the car can be used repeatedly and the laws of physics prevent the same type of setup from being on the wall.

I agree, the reason is BS, but at least the plug going into the car will have a 'trigger-latch' designed to hold it in should the fit begin to widen due to misuse. Dryer plugs will fall out if the fit starts loosening.

Yes, and I suppose it's totally out of the question to replace the 240V 50A dryer outlet every 2 or 3 years, at a cost of what? $40 for the outlet and even paying an electrician labor (most could shutoff the breaker and change it on their own), what another $100 maybe. Nope, this is pure BS.
 
mitch672Yes said:
From a legal and customer satisfaction point of view, it IS out of the question. You and I won't bitch about it, but someone somewhere would file a lawsuit over either the A) fire that occured because they had an open container of gasoline directly under the plug (for example) or B) lost their job because the car failed to charge due to the plug falling out and they couldn't make it to work on time.

We have to remember, the people on this forum are the minority when it comes to the target audience. Nissan has to think about the lead footed drivers, the ones who won't check the distance vs available charge before turning the key, the ones who are (and want to remain) clueless. For THOSE people, yes, the dryer outlet is out of the question.

Kinda sad, isn't it?
 
No "regular" consumer is going to buy a Leaf in the first few years, it's only going to be "early adopters" for a while. Nissan's can only make 50,000/year for the first 2 years, until the Tennesee plant comes online sometime in 2012. I do not expect to see a flood of orders on May15th, when ordering is opened up to the general public. I would be surprised to see more than another %10-20 signup (700 to 1400 more customers)
 
Jimmydreams said:
We have to remember, the people on this forum are the minority when it comes to the target audience. Nissan has to think about the lead footed drivers, the ones who won't check the distance vs available charge before turning the key, the ones who are (and want to remain) clueless. For THOSE people, yes, the dryer outlet is out of the question.

Kinda sad, isn't it?

Actually, Nissan is out of the equation here. Code is designed by a committee at the federal level and most states adopt the code. I guess Nissan can lobby the committee - it probably will in coming years. But as of now - code is what it is. Nissan and other car makers have to just follow it.
 
The NEC appears to allow use of a not hard-wired 240v ESVE in indoor cases, as long as two specific "disconnect" detection/protection/handling features are included.

Also, most dryer plugs are only 30-amp breakers, suitable for only 24-amp "continuous" use.

Range/Oven circuits often have a 50-amp breaker, suitable for 40-amp "continuous" use.

The typical older-style dryer plug does not include a "ground", only 2 hot and one neutral, so it is not directly suitable. The newer (last 14 years) dryer plug includes the neutral (apparently not used by the ESVE) and a ground (required by the ESVE).
 
garygid said:
The NEC appears to allow use of a not hard-wired 240v ESVE in indoor cases, as long as two specific "disconnect" detection/protection/handling features are included.

Do you have the exact quote ?

Should the "disconnect" detection/protection/handling be in the plug ?
 
Google NEC article 625.

In the 1999 version (the only one I could find on-line), Section 625-13 allows 120v and "some other".

625-13 requires 625-18 (interlock), -19 (strain disconnect), and -29 (indoor).
 
It's a safety issue.

Ever tried to unplug your dryer from the outlet? It's not easy like a 110v plug.

Now lets assume that you get a 220v plugset like you can get for the Tesla...but it now has a J1772 on the car end. Then assume your wife/daughter plugged into a weatherized outside 220v outlet...and it's raining. Imagine those smaller fingers trying to get a fast grip on the plug because they're getting wet...and they accidentally touch one of the blades in the process. 220v + rain = Zap = never touch it again (once they get off the ground).

With ~25 manufacturers getting in the game to make Level 2 chargers (http://www.pluginrecharge.com/p/evse-vendors.html), the prices will melt once quantity starts ramping...so the high price today is mostly an early adopter "fee".

Given that probably everyone on this board is an early adopter, you know all about this (Damn, the 60" Sony LCD monitor I bought last month is on sale for 30% off! Bastards!)
 
mitch672 said:
Jimmydreams said:
EVDRIVER said:
Complete BS about the plug being the reason. So the plug that goes into the car can be used repeatedly and the laws of physics prevent the same type of setup from being on the wall.

I agree, the reason is BS, but at least the plug going into the car will have a 'trigger-latch' designed to hold it in should the fit begin to widen due to misuse. Dryer plugs will fall out if the fit starts loosening.

Yes, and I suppose it's totally out of the question to replace the 240V 50A dryer outlet every 2 or 3 years, at a cost of what? $40 for the outlet and even paying an electrician labor (most could shutoff the breaker and change it on their own), what another $100 maybe. Nope, this is pure BS.


This is just uniformed reporting. I have been using these outlets with my EVs for six years with no issue charging at 240 @ 40A or more. Do Europeans have these boxes in their garages for their extension cords? No, and I bet they leave them plugged in at times as well. The basis is to keep a live cord off the ground, this makes sense but the cost for this box is too high and I expect in time they will be under a few hundred dollars, made in China of course. You are paying for lack of competition, development, limited production, and UL cert.
 
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