apvbguy
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Mon Apr 15, 2013 4:36 am

planet4ever wrote:
apvbguy wrote:thanks for the clarification, I'll get it soon, I am getting the upgrade on my charger to enable l2 like charging times. I was saying that in many cases installing a L2 charger at home would be a good thing to have in order to enable more usage of the car.
:lol: Maybe soon, but you don't have it yet. Here is what you meant to say:
I am getting the upgrade on my L1 EVSE to enable L2 charging times. I was saying that in many cases installing a L2 EVSE at home would be a good thing to have in order to enable more usage of the car.
The charger is built in to the car. A number of people have dreamed of upgrading the chargers in the 2011 or 2012 LEAFs to use the higher powered one in the 2013 LEAF, but doing so would be totally impractical.

Ray
ray you sometimes have some good info to offer but instead of posting snide corrections of a newbies misuse of terms could it be too much to ask that you just offer your wisdom sans snarkiness?
WARNING This post may contain material offensive to those who lack wit, humor, common sense and/or supporting factual or anecdotal evidence. All statements may be subject to literary devices not limited to: irony, metaphor, allusion and dripping sarcasm

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dgpcolorado
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:25 am

ehunter wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:However, my reading of the mileage and charge patterns of hundreds of LEAF drivers over the last couple of years makes me think that your situation is quite unusual.
...
Occasional outliers, such as you, would benefit from home charging at the 6 kW speed. For the majority? Not so much, from what I've observed.
I dont think it is unusual at all. I fit in with this model, my carpool partner who is driving the EV RAV4 SUV does not fit, and I see other Leafers cruzing the route down to Sillicon Valley, 38 miles away from San Fran all the time.

My rough estimate is 1 in 5,6, or 7 drivers fits the the longer distance mold. I cant prove it though just the same as others cant prove otherwise either, all hand waving aside.

The longer the distance per day a person travels, the better the return on their investment. However I understand that many drivers get more insecure the longer the commute in a EV so this dynamic is hard to get a read on.
No doubt there are some, such as you and apvbguy who can take advantage of a 30 Amp EVSE. I think what Ray was trying to point out was that most people would derive little benefit from a high power EVSE at home and that newcomers shouldn't automatically assume that their EVSE must be able to fully match the 6 kW charger in the car. Consider that the rationale for the ~40 mile electric range for the Chevy Volt was that most people driver fewer than 40 miles a day.

Also, it has been overlooked in the back-and-forth that we are talking about rather small differences in charging times. The 6 kW charger uses 27.5 Amps at 240 Volts (6.6 kW draw) on a 30 Amp EVSE. The relatively inexpensive EVSE Upgrade allows 20 Amp charging for the 2013 model Nissan EVSE. So, a charge that takes one hour on a 30 or 40 Amp EVSE would take a hour and 22 minutes on the upgraded Nissan EVSE. A two hour charge on a 30 Amp EVSE would take two hours and 44 minutes on an upgraded EVSE. A charge from Low Battery Warning to 80% (on a new battery) would take about two and a half hours on a 30 Amp EVSE and about three and a half hours on an upgraded EVSE. So, we aren't talking about a doubling in charge time or some such thing, as some seem to think.

That difference in time may be significant for you, but is it really a big deal for most people charging at home? I think not, as I've said before. And EVSE Upgrade is substantially cheaper than buying a typical 30 or 40 Amp EVSE; the installation costs figure to be about the same for both.

If you don't buy any of this, fine. One nice thing about this discussion is that anyone perusing it has the information they need to make a decision for their own situation.
ehunter wrote:
dgpcolorado wrote:Did they fix the problem that caused the EVSE credit to be disallowed if in the same year one applies for the $7500 EV tax credit? Wouldn't apply to those leasing but it sure was annoying for me when I purchased my LEAF.
WOW. This would really piss me off. Was it an error or by fed design?
I think it was an error in the way the law was written or implemented. And, yes, some of us were both surprised and annoyed. The lesson, I guess, is get your EVSE installed in a different calendar year from when you purchase your EV (doesn't apply to leases, of course). I wish I had known!
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ehunter
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:13 am

dgpcolorado wrote:If you don't buy any of this, fine. One nice thing about this discussion is that anyone perusing it has the information they need to make a decision for their own situation.
It is not that I dont buy it. It was more of a choice of words that could have been better in the explanation describing the situation. I don't think we need to quibble about that now. At any rate, I think we are all on the same page here, literally at least!!!
The lesson, I guess, is get your EVSE installed in a different calendar year from when you purchase your EV (doesn't apply to leases, of course). I wish I had known!
So it does not seem anything is going to change with 2013 based on the post some guy put up a day back.

This means I am stuck trying to get the tax benefit of the charger in the same year as the car in 2013. At least this is the way I am interpreting things right now.

cwerdna
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Mon Apr 15, 2013 1:21 pm

ehunter wrote: This means I am stuck trying to get the tax benefit of the charger in the same year as the car in 2013. At least this is the way I am interpreting things right now.
Do you mean EVSE instead of charger that I bolded? I didn't follow (or care about the tax benefits) but when discussing EVSEs and on-board chargers along w/their different max output/input rates, people really need to get their terminology straight.

For L1 and L2 charging, the charger is on-board (built into) the car (under the hood in the '13, under the hump in the back in '11 and '12 Leafs). The external units w/J1772 handle/connector be they permanently installed (aka "charging stations") or a charging cord set w/a brick, etc. are EVSEs, NOT chargers.

The '11 and '12 Leaf only had a 3.3 kW on-board charger. The '13 has either a 3.3 kw or 6 kW on-board charger, depending on how it's equipped.

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planet4ever
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:01 pm

apvbguy wrote:ray you sometimes have some good info to offer but instead of posting snide corrections of a newbies misuse of terms could it be too much to ask that you just offer your wisdom sans snarkiness?
My sincere apologies. I had no intention of being snarky. I am a newbie in many areas, and I appreciate being told when I am misusing terminology. I would hope that you and others would as well. I had meant the laughing emoticon to be taken as a sympathetic chuckle, but I now see that you probably took it as me laughing at you. Definitely not my intent, and once again I apologize.

Ray
End of April 2013: Traded my 2011 SL for a 2013 S with charge pkg.

cwerdna
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:05 pm

^^^
I didn't interpret any snark in planet4ever's reply earlier.

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Pipcecil
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Tue Apr 16, 2013 5:51 am

Many have already listed numerous evse options, but one thing you may want to consider is the build "quality" of the J1772 plug itself. As an owner of both the Volt and the Leaf and relying on public charging frequently, you definintely get a feel for which plugs are better than others. Also, in the end, this is the part of the unit you "work" with the most - all the other features are less used (as long as it meets your amp requirements) as you will be pluging in every day (usually) and sometimes more than once a day!

I have not used all the different EVSEs but I feel like I have a good variety to comment on:

1. Aerovironment - despite the sore pairing many people had with AV and the Leaf, the plugs on these are fantastic. Smooth action, a very noticable "click" when in place and easy to pull out. Build quality is solid
2. Leviton - plug feels similar to the portable LEAF plug in my opinion. A good build and nice clicking and easy release with the button on top, which is the largest I have seen on a J1772.
3. SPX - plug comes with a light (wee), and, if you can get your hands on a Voltec (unfortuantely only 15 amps though) the spiral cord is far superior to having to wrap the cord every day (uggh). Although the pushing in doesn't have the nice click to know you're plugged and pulling out can be a little difficult, the other amenties push this over other ones. Feels like an upgraded Blink with smoother action (but similar in how it "pairs" to the car) and better quality.
4. GE - a mediocre plug, I found it difficult to remove from the car, but it was easy to plug in. Unfortunately, like the SPX it was difficult to tell if the plug was all the way plugged in, but I guess you get use to the "soft docking" of this plug
5. Blink - way bottom last. No one is even close to how bad their plugs are. Low build quality (feels like cheap molded plastic), pluging in is difficult (I feel I have to shove it in sometimes), and unplugging is way worse - I almost feel like I am pulling the sword from the stone sometimes. Definetely not arthritis friendly (wife has RA). Unless you get this free, I wouldn't get it (and some here may argue to not get the free one either!)

I have not used clipper creek or schneider units, so I cannot comment on those or any of the other smaller companies out there. If you are going full bore and not the EVSEupgrade route, I would suggest (from my experience) AV or Leviton.
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ehunter
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:18 pm

Great post Pipcecil,

I need to report that Sunday I have ordered the Siemens VersiCharge 30A unit from Homies. Today I got a ship-track email and the unit should be here by Friday. Cost+tax+free ship put the price at $925.41

I just had a local electrician leave my house. A yelper posted he did a great job with their charge station which is why I called him. The guy is verbally quoting me $400 for a 3' run from my breaker for a 40A circuit. He will be following up with a written quote. I had questions for him which he could not answer but I bet you guys can.

1) Is it mandatory to have my installation inspected by my city? If so he says this will add another 400-$500 to the cost. He does not think it is worth it. Would "not" doing it jeopardize any kind of benefit I can receive along the way?

2) Does anything special need to be in place in order for me to get the 9A electrical rate through PG&E? That is, what is the trigger point that tells PG&E I am a 9A candidate? How do I go about it? Is it just "make a simple phone call" after the car is purchased or charge station installed?

cwerdna
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Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:21 pm

ehunter wrote: 1) Is it mandatory to have my installation inspected by my city? If so he says this will add another 400-$500 to the cost. He does not think it is worth it. Would "not" doing it jeopardize any kind of benefit I can receive along the way?
OTOH, I don't know but he posts by devprius at http://priuschat.com/threads/leviton-wa ... se.104313/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; might help. Don't just read his first post... read all of his posts in that thread.

He apparently lives in your city.
Last edited by cwerdna on Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

cgaydos
Posts: 650
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Location: Monument, Colorado

Re: Recommended charger types via price/quality

Tue Apr 16, 2013 7:33 pm

ehunter wrote:
cgaydos wrote:Since you already took a picture of the inside of the breaker box for the consultant you might post it here.
The first photo shows the house breaker box location with the large arrow. Then there is a RED dot on the right side of the same photo. The MAIN breaker is on the other side of the wall, outside. I would rather have the unit installed, maybe mid-wall although I could live with it being right in back of where the main panel is.
Thanks for posting the pics. I thought someone else might answer but since they haven't ...

First, the good news is that if a new 240V circuit can be created in your "breaker box" panel then running the cable to where you want the EVSE to be will be relatively low cost. Not as simple as installing a 240V outlet right next to the box but pretty straightforward. Costs will vary a lot by electrician and location, and will depend on the approach taken, but just for the wiring of the outlet from the board I would expect costs in the hundreds, not above a thousand, possibly a lot less. YMMV, but that would be my expecation going in FOR THAT PART of the work.

Second, the not-so-good news is that I can't assess based on the photos whether you can fit in a 240V circuit for an EVSE and comply with codes. You have enough slots available, but your electrical service appears to be of an older vintage (not unusual for your area) and someone who is on sight will need to run the numbers to see if the load-with-EVSE fits within the allowed parameters. Best case, add a few hundred in electrician costs for an additional 240V circuit to what you already have. Worst case, you'll need to upgrade your service and that's when the high number quotes will appear. On the plus side, once you increase your electrical service capacity you can also think about other big electrical items like hot tubs.
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