Adding a Brusa charger under the hood for '11/'12s

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Forgive me If this is inherent in your above posts/ exploration, but I think we need to address the EVSE capacity issue.

If we have a 30+ amp capable EVSE, the Brusa and Leaf should charge as hard as they can (within the profile).
But our leafs cannot request 30 + amps as supplied, so the pilot is saying 16 amps to the EVSE.
If we plug a 16 amp car into a 30 amp EVSE.. Not a problem; EVSE are pretty stupid. The Leaf will take what it can.

If we now plug our NEW 30 amp car into a 16 Amp EVSE, which will negotiate just fine with our 16 amp Pilot, and then proceed to draw 30 amps, we have a problem. Yes?

Can we work it so if the car sees a 16 amp EVSE (Like my EVSE upgrade) it simply will not activate the Brusa?

Again, If this is being handled in your CAN exploration, never mind....

My Plate is 90% done.
Trying a couple of things to try to solve the internal clearance issue.
My efforts Should be complete before your "Plate Party" and I'll let you know what I discover.

Tapping of the J1772 / Brusa Input cable is 90% complete.
I'm carrying the Pilot line to the Brusa, but not the Proximity.
>>> What is the thinking about earlier mentioned J1772 temperature monitoring?
Don't want to finalize the J1772 and seal it back up until I'm are sure where that is going and If I need some other conductors in there.
(I have a couple spare sets of the socket / plugs I used for this)

Also, the Brusa Output cable from the charger to the HV is almost done.
I moved the Balun closer to Brusa, and sealed it all back up.
>>> What's the deal with the HV interlock in there? Looks like it can be dealt with internally?

Thanks
 
KillaWhat said:
Forgive me If this is inherent in your above posts/ exploration, but I think we need to address the EVSE capacity issue.

If we have a 30+ amp capable EVSE, the Brusa and Leaf should charge as hard as they can (within the profile).
But our leafs cannot request 30 + amps as supplied, so the pilot is saying 16 amps to the EVSE.
If we plug a 16 amp car into a 30 amp EVSE.. Not a problem; EVSE are pretty stupid. The Leaf will take what it can.
Can we work it so if the car sees a 16 amp EVSE (Like my EVSE upgrade) it simply will not activate the Brusa? ...
As I understand it, the Brusa already has this functionality built in. It is connected to the pilot, and it will be programmed to know that it is a slave to a master 3.3kW charger. It should automatically output the lesser of CAN requested power-3.3kW, pilot-3.3kW, or max output when plugged in.
 
It's alive!! Well, at least the brains. I hooked up 12V and serial and it's responding so at least I know I didn't buy a complete paperweight. :)

yoMN9ku.png


I'm going to update the first post tonight with the knowledge and progress we are at.
 
KillaWhat said:
But our leafs cannot request 30 + amps as supplied, so the pilot is saying 16 amps to the EVSE.
If we plug a 16 amp car into a 30 amp EVSE.. Not a problem; EVSE are pretty stupid. The Leaf will take what it can.

I think that wording was confusing. The pilot goes the other direction.
The EVSE creates the pilot and sends it to the charger in the car.
If you plug in a 16amp EVSE (such as EVSEUPGRADE modified LEAF portable unit) then the charger(s) in the car are supposed to pull no more than the 16amps that the EVSE says is available. Yes, if the BRUSA is not sharing the pilot signal with the LEAF onboard then you could overload the EVSE and related wiring behind it.

Possibly the easiest way to do this would be to have a manual deactive switch on the BRUSA so that it doesn't try to charge at all when you are using a 16A EVSE charging solution. If you have a full 30A+ available then only then would you turn on the BRUSA and let it charge in parallel with the onboard EVSE. Most EVSEs don't have a label showing the pilot signal, so you would have to be knowledable about the way it was wired and configured before you turned on the aux charger.

Yes, EVSE are "pretty stupid". They just provide the pilot signal and close the contactor/relay when the car signals that it is ready.
(Some may provide ground fault interruption too.)
 
TEG said:
Yes, EVSE are "pretty stupid". They just provide the pilot signal and close the contactor/relay when the car signals that it is ready.
(Some may provide ground fault interruption too.)
All proper EVSEs provide GFI. Otherwise your statements are correct.

I have to do some digging through the chargeStar, but I believe you can set the Brusa to not come on if the pilot is below a certain value. It's also very easy to disable the charger using a switch and one of the "digital input" pins, or an analog pot, or over can (by sending 0 amps or just not sending any messages it'll shut down).
 
Good news for anyone who is holding off on adding a Brusa.

I contacted Brusa this evening to enquire as to why and when they are shutting down production of the NLG5 series (the one we're using). I also enquired as to the status of an NLG6 series being made for the American market (the 3 phase 22kW unit is limited to 50 Hz only for some reason). I promptly got this email back from them:
Dear Mr. Whaling
Due to the positive echo from the market, which also has resulted in a remarkable increase of the demand, our management decided to continue production and offering the NLG513. Accordingly, the message was removed from our website.
It is a corporate decision, to continue offering the NLG5 series, until the next generation of the 3.5kW OBC is established. Even beyond we will sufficiently long be able to provide spare parts.“

The NLG6 was first designed for the European market. How to go ahead for the US market is not decided yet.
Kind Regards
BRUSA Sales Team

So, good news to those who are waiting in the wings on adding something like this. There should be more out there in time. I'm not sure what a price would be as the current low price is due to bankruptcy of Azure Dynamics and subsequent liquidation of their stock. Hopefully the demand will be high enough and the euro exchange rate favorable enough that it won't cost an arm and a leg to get one directly from Brusa.
 
So, good news to those who are waiting in the wings on adding something like this. There should be more out there in time. I'm not sure what a price would be as the current low price is due to bankruptcy of Azure Dynamics and subsequent liquidation of their stock. Hopefully the demand will be high enough and the euro exchange rate favorable enough that it won't cost an arm and a leg to get one directly from Brusa.

This is VERY good news.
People have asked me why I would spend this kind of time and money adding a charger, when I could just trade it for a '13.
I'm very happy with my Leaf, and have gotten it pretty much fixed up the way I want it.

Without a newer model having a significant increase in usable range, I don't want to start all this over again.

The ONLY thing like more about the '13 is that 6.6Kw charger, and It looks like We are about to solve that little problem.
(keeping in mind that Phil solved it over a year ago :roll: )

Brusa's decision to continue to produce this charger, and the attendant extension of parts and service support will make this an option for more people, and alleviates some of my stress about spare parts in case the blue smoke gets released at some point.

Thanks Jeremy
 
I think that wording was confusing. The pilot goes the other direction.
The EVSE creates the pilot and sends it to the charger in the car.
If you plug in a 16amp EVSE (such as EVSEUPGRADE modified LEAF portable unit) then the charger(s) in the car are supposed to pull no more than the 16amps that the EVSE says is available. Yes, if the BRUSA is not sharing the pilot signal with the LEAF onboard then you could overload the EVSE and related wiring behind it.

My thought for this was leave the Leafs "Pilot" system alone, and set the Brusa's system to only activate if it sees a 30+ amp pilot.
We know the Leaf will activate with a 16 or a 30.

Should solve the problem without manual intervention?
 
KillaWhat said:
I think that wording was confusing. The pilot goes the other direction.
The EVSE creates the pilot and sends it to the charger in the car.
If you plug in a 16amp EVSE (such as EVSEUPGRADE modified LEAF portable unit) then the charger(s) in the car are supposed to pull no more than the 16amps that the EVSE says is available. Yes, if the BRUSA is not sharing the pilot signal with the LEAF onboard then you could overload the EVSE and related wiring behind it.

My thought for this was leave the Leafs "Pilot" system alone, and set the Brusa's system to only activate if it sees a 30+ amp pilot.
We know the Leaf will activate with a 16 or a 30.

Should solve the problem without manual intervention?
I'm pretty sure you guys are over thinking this. The Brusa is designed to be a slave and should already have the logic you need to play nice with the existing charger and the EVSE. If programmed correctly, it should automatically come on whenever the LEAF is asking for more than 16a, AND the pilot indicates that >16a is available. Ingineer already noted in another post somewhere on the site, that the LEAF's BMS will ask for more than 16a.
 
For those who have a Brusa, here's the relevant info to get the "its alive" info in HyperTerminal:

Here's the pinout that you'll need for your ampseal connector for testing/programming.

Pin 1- Ground
Pin 2- 12v +
Pin 3-12v +
Pin 11 Brusa Tx (connect to RS232 RX)
Pin 12 Brusa Rx (connect to RS232 TX)

Hyperterm settings are
Bitrate of 19,200
8N1, Xon/Xoff flow control.
Page 55 of the Brusa Manual for details on setting up HyperTerminal.
 
Is this going on a Wiki Somewhere?

As a first-gen driver with nearly 37,000 miles on the clock, we're interested... And frankly, the 2013 doesn't have anything we want (apart from 6.6 kW) so this seems the more cost-effective solution.
 
Is this going on a Wiki Somewhere?

Hi;

I have a listing of every plug, connector, pin cable, etc. that we have used / tried so far.
Once we successfully complete this, we will publish something.
There still remains our concern that someone who SHOULD NOT ever pull that inverter cover off may become emboldened thinking they can use our WiKi as a Do-it-yourself blueprint, and attempt this mod.

We have not fully come to grips with how to handle this yet.

37K miles.... impressive
 
Update;

The Plate is done; I just need to install the 6 3/4" raised mounting points for the relocated tanks and the support bracket, then off to the anodizer.

Would transparent blue (like the emblem) be too much?

Anyway, I'm working on a new bracket to support the circuit board and get it out of our way.
I'll let you know how that works out.



HaHA Very Funny!
Yes, that IS the shape. SEE!!!
 
KillaWhat said:
The Plate is done

Wow! Cool! There sure is a lot of room in front of the Brusa. You know, the NLG-6 (the three phase 22kW water cooled successor to the NLG-513) is pretty thin. One day... :roll:

I'm excited to make my plate! :D

I won't transfer the emblems, but a nice black nissan sticker on the red Brusa might look pretty sweet!
 
There sure is a lot of room in front of the Brusa.

In looking at Phil's install, I'm not sure I can mount it that far back.
I won't know until I get that circuit board moved and can get this plate installed.

The placement was more for judging my options for the silly emblems.
(those are NEW, not harvested)
I'm actually concerned as to how much corrosion is showing on the back of that housing cover in just a year.

OH, also.
I ordered a replacement hose assembly for the Brake fluid tank that has to be relocated.
I'd like to keep one intact and ready to install if I need to undo this in a hurry for warranty work.
Part Numbers below.

Hose 46227-3NA0A
Small end clamp 01555-00841
Big end clamp 16439-V500B


UPDATE:
I started with a piece of 12"X 18' X 3/16" plate.
Thought it would be plenty big (wide)

I'm now concerned that I will not have enough "extra" room on the drivers side for that relocated Brake Fluid tank.
It's going to be close.
That tank is about 3.75" wide because of the way it mounts (tank is only about 2.25")

Do yourselves a favor, and leave an extra 1.5" over there to be safe. (12" x 19.5")
You have about 5" before you start to encroach on the 12VDC Battery.
I won't know for sure until I get it mounted.....

(I have a plan if it won't fit :cool: )
 
Control Circuit Board Mounting Under the New Brusa Mounting Plate, cont.

OK; Spent the weekend working on the Brusa mount and that circuit board bracket.

First the disclaimer, then the good news (for me), and then the discouraging news, and lastly the results of my weekend’s work.

Disclaimer: DO NOT DO THIS !!!. High voltage… you will die!!
Seriously, if you don’t know what this is….Don ‘t do it!
HV Disconnect



The Good News: I pulled the battery negative, then pulled the High Voltage disconnect (easily, since I had a set of Tony’s RED thumbscrews under there). Pulled the Inverter housing, then disconnected and pulled the circuit board bracket. I’ve done this so many times now I think I have it down to about 18 Minutes.

AND….When I was all done, and put I it all back together….. The car was still ALIVE!!!!
(I Confess, I was a bit concerned considering what I had put that circuit board through.)

The Discouraging News: The short version, then we will get into the meat of this.
Again, it’s all about the under-the-plate clearance issue. We are trying to stick a circuit board under there that is 19 to 20 mm tall, in a space with only 17 to 18 mm clearance. Period!

As in “If you just dropped the circuit board right on top of the inverter, it would still extend higher than the plane of our plate.

There is (on my car at least) a “lip” around the potted section of the inverter guts. Like they put a plastic “bowl” in there, put the electronics in, poured the potting compound in, and the “lip” of the bowl extends higher than the compound. That lip catches a section of the board, and that’s what is keeping it from sitting flush.

After spending a BUNCH of time farting with this, I evaluate our options as:

1) Increase Bottom clearance: Mill down the section of the lip that is causing the problem. OK, but Even if you pulled it out of the car, mounted it on a mill, and did a perfect, precise reduction in height, there is no way to hide it if Nissan has to pull it apart for a warranty repair. I think it would work, but that’s’ not the way I’m going to go.

2) Increase Top clearance: Mill out the plate.
Option " A". Completely mill out a hole through the new inverter cover plate, giving you 3/16” increased clearance. Then make a “Mounting Plate” for the Bottom of the Brusa that will cover the hole, and give us the ability to attach the Brusa from the bottom as it was intended, then attach the top plate from above.

Option “B” . Make your plate out of ¼” Plate. Flat mill it down to about <1/8” giving the resulting >1/8” increase in clearance. This will work.

Note that if you do either of these options, you have to provide enough space for the PLUG end of the White connector not to be encroached upon. If you had the right equipment, and were starting from scratch, Using a 1/4” plate this might be the way to go. I’m not, because I already have the plate made, and ……. I don’t want to.

Option “C”: Increase the height of the plate with a thicker gasket. Unfortunately, This is the option I am going to have to pursue. I am going to go back to my bracket assembly, reduce everything to absolute minimums, check the clearance one more time, then get a solid number on how much clearance I need to gain, then decide on a gasket thickness. I’m thinking 5/32”.

My plan is I’m going to find out how much replacement gaskets cost, and if it’s not absurd, I’ll micrometer one, figure out how many I need, and stack them till its tall enough. Ugly, but if you look at how they are made, this WILL work!
I’m REALLY not looking forward to cutting a 3/16” gasket out of a material that is tough enough not to compress significantly..

So if stacking gaskets is going to cost more than about $100, I’m going to use a 5/32 extruded sheet of HDPE plastic, hopefully UV stabilized, and mill a gasket out of it. Easier than cutting a thick rubber gasket, unless anybody knows someone in that business with a CAD water jet.

Here is what was done this weekend:
First step;
I cut out the basic traced shape of the bracket, located and drilled the 4 mounting holes and the 6 standoff holes. Inverted the plate on top of the circuit board, and measured the height of the standoffs I need to make to make the top of the plate perfectly flush with the top of the white plug.
MY tall ones are 11.5 mm
And short ones are always 5mm shorter, in this case 6.5 mm.

I used 4 X 40 SAE threaded round standoffs and 4 X 40 X ¼” flat head screws for all the tops, and 4 X 40 X 3/8” for the 3 that require a longer screw on the bottom. I think you could use #6 hardware and it would fit fine.

Here are the Standoffs in place


Here is the Completed Bracket. It’s not perfect, but it works.


You need to make enough relief so that you can attach and disconnect all the plugs. The cosmetic holes are just that; vanity. The plate can be a lot simpler and still work fine.

Here is the assembled bracket and circuit board sandwich.


The clearance on the bottom of my bracket will be adjusted by adding ½” OD ¼” ID aluminum spacers UNDER the where the bracket mounts to the inverter housing. I’m really paranoid about dropping something in the inverter, so when I get the correct height for these spacers, I’ll weld them onto the bottom of the bracket so they stay. I’ll use countersunk flat head M5/0.8 screws to attach the bracket.

Close-up of Bracket. Flat head screws used everywhere so as not to add any height.


First Time my Plate was put in Place so I can locate the charger exactly
Some of you know that I started with a 12" X 18" X 3/16 Plate, only to discover that I might not have enough room on the drivers side to relocate the Brake Fluid Tank. Do yourself a favor and start with a width of 19.5". (It's not so much the tank bracket width, as the wire coming out the side hitting the Brusa.



This is a Close-up of the Plate showing Alignment


This is the Charger in place Overview. This is how it will look completed.


This is My Correct Charger Placement


Note on TOP clearance: I mounted my plate on the top of the housing, with the gasket, and then placed the Brusa in position. I was able to slide a 1/8” shim under the black lip at the rear of the assembly without a problem. I was able to slide a 3/16” Shim under, but it WILL TOUCH that 1 clip that hangs down always.

And remember, you need to reduce the height of your tank and bracket mounting standoffs (on the main plate) by the amount of height you add to the plate or they won’t match up on the side.

Charger in place showing the Rear Clearance


Close-up of the Top Clearance showing that clip that is the lowest point.


So. I am going to shave my standoffs until they are at minimums, Solve my height extending gasket problem, mount it all up and install it. Going to tap the J1772 as soon as I’m ready to leave the plate mounted.

Looking forward to you “operations” guys solving the programming problems, and where we get our +12VDC and tap the can BUSS.
 
KillaWhat said:
My plan is I’m going to find out how much replacement gaskets cost, and if it’s not absurd, I’ll micrometer one, figure out how many I need, and stack them till its tall enough. Ugly, but if you look at how they are made, this WILL work!
I’m REALLY not looking forward to cutting a 3/16” gasket out of a material that is tough enough not to compress significantly.
If you are going to CNC it, I guess you could always make your gasket out of aluminum.

Or what about phenolic grade sheets? This stuff is commonly used as gasket material on things like engine intake manifolds... Should be plenty tough for this application.
 
aminorjourney said:
Is this going on a Wiki Somewhere?

As a first-gen driver with nearly 37,000 miles on the clock, we're interested... And frankly, the 2013 doesn't have anything we want (apart from 6.6 kW) so this seems the more cost-effective solution.

It is a 6kw charger not a 6.6kw charger and NIssan needs to correct this false advertising. Adding a Brusa will yield more to the pack than a 2013 LEAF charging system.
 
I have not heard back from Jeremy yet but I'm still trying to find a Brusa for a "decent" price. If EVmotor Verks are the only game in town (besides MetricMind) then I may just be stuck paying full price :cry:

I'd love to meet up with you guys this weekend and help out any way I can with the programming/hookups(I'm good like that ;) ) but I may have to ICE it for that long of a drive :(

Non the less, once the final mounting plate system is finalized, put me down as +1 :D
 
Back
Top