2013 Leaf - Dead 12-Volt Battery every 2 Weeks

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davewill said:
Phatcat73 said:
Interesting anomaly occurred the other day- I parked, shut off the car, opened the door and heard the door ajar chime. I looked at the dash and the nav screen and they were black, suggesting the car was powered off. ...
The usual reason this happens t me is because of clicking the door handle just a tiny bit before hitting the power button. I never had it cause a dead battery, though.

Interesting. I sometimes open the door and then power down. Perhaps that's not such a good idea? Although that's exactly what I did last night (was listening to the tail end of a piece of music) and I didn't see this issue occur.
 
mwalsh said:
Interesting. I sometimes open the door and then power down. Perhaps that's not such a good idea? Although that's exactly what I did last night (was listening to the tail end of a piece of music) and I didn't see this issue occur.
It was one of the updates that added a very annoying chime if you opened the door when the car was still on.
 
Happened to me after one week. My hypothesis is that CARWINGS communication is draining the 12V battery because it happened at the night after I enabled CARWINGS, and where I leave the car cellular reception is terrible for all providers and usually drains mobile phones batteries within hours even without using them. I've disabled CARWINGS and will monitor.
 
Carwings basically uses SMS functionality and the lack of coverage will not appreciably affect its power draw. It only transmits when it has something to say, unlike regular cell service. Thus, I seriously doubt Carwings is your problem.

leafowner said:
Happened to me after one week. My hypothesis is that CARWINGS communication is draining the 12V battery because it happened at the night after I enabled CARWINGS, and where I leave the car cellular reception is terrible for all providers and usually drains mobile phones batteries within hours even without using them. I've disabled CARWINGS and will monitor.
 
TomT said:
Carwings basically uses SMS functionality and the lack of coverage will not appreciably affect its power draw. It only transmits when it has something to say, unlike regular cell service. Thus, I seriously doubt Carwings is your problem.

I will try and explain better; just registering with cellular towers here is draining cellular phones batteries, even without sending or receiving anything. I was trying to solve the same problem for my phone only to realize that weak signal from several towers is causing the phone to "jump" from tower to tower and draining batteries while *attempting* to register. As for the leaf, so far so good, there is no drain on the battery. I will monitor for few days and then re-enable CARWINGS to recreate the problem.
 
I have the same issue, although the L2 says it's charged to 100%, the 12v is dead. I bought my car late March and it's been in the shop for 1 month now. The dealer couldn't figured out the problem so they called the engineering department in Smyrna, TN. They said they will change the OBC, supposed to arrive last Thu, well, now they say it is back ordered and there is no ETA, they gave me a 2010 Sentra in the meantime, but I can't wait forever.
I am an engineer, I know what the problem is and why the battery will die again. There are three simple solutions to this problem:
1) Replace all the lights including headlights to LED.
2) Add the solar panel.
3) Use a deep cycle battery, it will be better if they replace it with 2 6V 4D batteries. This will be the cheapest solution.
 
Rgiron said:
I am an engineer, I know what the problem is and why the battery will die again. There are three simple solutions to this problem:
1) Replace all the lights including headlights to LED.
2) Add the solar panel.
3) Use a deep cycle battery, it will be better if they replace it with 2 6V 4D batteries. This will be the cheapest solution.
You may be an engineer, but none of those are "solutions" to the problem. The first two would have negligible effect. The third might well mask the problem, but it wouldn't solve it.

Ray
 
I hope that, like EVNOW, he just has a bizarre sense of humor... :roll:
'
planet4ever said:
Rgiron said:
I am an engineer, I know what the problem is and why the battery will die again. There are three simple solutions to this problem:
1) Replace all the lights including headlights to LED.
2) Add the solar panel.
3) Use a deep cycle battery, it will be better if they replace it with 2 6V 4D batteries. This will be the cheapest solution.
You may be an engineer, but none of those are "solutions" to the problem. The first two would have negligible effect. The third might well mask the problem, but it wouldn't solve it.
 
Rgiron said:
I have the same issue, although the L2 says it's charged to 100%, the 12v is dead. I bought my car late March and it's been in the shop for 1 month now. The dealer couldn't figured out the problem so they called the engineering department in Smyrna, TN. They said they will change the OBC, supposed to arrive last Thu, well, now they say it is back ordered and there is no ETA, they gave me a 2010 Sentra in the meantime, but I can't wait forever.
I am an engineer, I know what the problem is and why the battery will die again. There are three simple solutions to this problem:
1) Replace all the lights including headlights to LED.
2) Add the solar panel.
3) Use a deep cycle battery, it will be better if they replace it with 2 6V 4D batteries. This will be the cheapest solution.

Those are not solutions at all.
If my "new" 2013 car were in the shop for a month, I think I'd be demanding a new car!
(and at least a "Z" car loaner, not some 2 year old POS Sentra.

I've had my car for over year.
I've abused the 12VDC system, left the lights on, left the door open all night, hooked up an 8 amp inverter and run it for 12 hours, and left town for 3 weeks on a whim just to name a few.
What I have NEVER done, is discover a dead leaf.. Ever.

You need a New "new" car dude.
Lemon law them.
 
leafowner said:
TomT said:
Carwings basically uses SMS functionality and the lack of coverage will not appreciably affect its power draw. It only transmits when it has something to say, unlike regular cell service. Thus, I seriously doubt Carwings is your problem.

I will try and explain better; just registering with cellular towers here is draining cellular phones batteries, even without sending or receiving anything. I was trying to solve the same problem for my phone only to realize that weak signal from several towers is causing the phone to "jump" from tower to tower and draining batteries while *attempting* to register. As for the leaf, so far so good, there is no drain on the battery. I will monitor for few days and then re-enable CARWINGS to recreate the problem.

Carwings will use more power along with the car itself if its plugged in, has timers enabled, etc. Also, a poor cellular signal will kill a battery faster than any other draw. Any device with cellular access must poll the network on a regular basis. it cannot just lie dormant.

despite my battery hovering in the 12.2-12.4 volt range, i have never had battery issues but have never set a timer of any kind on the car. i think that has been my savior
 
This just happened to my 2012 SV. I went out of the country for a week, and when I came home, I found that the 12V was dead. The car had about 70% charge and it wasn't plugged into the charger. This is the first and only time this has happened. I've left the car alone for a week or more previously, with no ill effects.
I thought that the big battery will charge the 12V every so often, indicated by one blue light on the dash, but to be honest, I've never caught it actually doing that.
I put the 12V on a trickle charger overnight and it's been fine since. That was 3 days ago. But I'm wondering what the heck happened. :?:
 
I need to join the dead battery club. 3 times last week. Each time I had 60% - 40% left in my traction battery, so I did not plug in. Today I go for a ride to the dealer. I'll report back tonight.
 
According to the Service Manual, the "dark current" should be 50 ma or less (May be for late 2013 models). This means that (if my math is right) a fresh 24 AHr battery should last for 20 days; cut that in half and let's say 10 days. If your battery is older, it will not hold as much charge as a new battery and will last less. I personally would not leave the car without a trickle charger for more than 5 days.

When the car is not used for a long period, this happens:

"When Vehicle is Not Used for A Long Time, VCM (Vehicle control module) measures the time of no operation using its internal timer. If the time of no operation reaches 24 hours, VCM performs automatic charge for 4 minutes.
VCM resets the no operation status continuous time when the vehicle satisfies one of the following conditions.
• READY continues for more than 4 minutes.
• Normal charge continues for more than 4 minutes.
• Quick charge continues for more than 4 minutes.
• Climate Ctrl. Timer or remote climate control continues for more than 4 minutes.
• Discharge current of 12 V battery is 1.5 A or more.
• During automatic 12V battery charge, the charging status indicator blinks.
• The automatic 12V battery charge control does not start within approximately one hour when the power
switch is turned ON/OFF."

So there is some charging going on but does not look like a lot.

Bottom line: Leave the car for more than 5 days, use a trickle charger or disconnect the battery. IMHO the Leaf needs a good deep-cycle battery.
 
joerivct said:
Bottom line: Leave the car for more than 5 days, use a trickle charger or disconnect the battery. IMHO the Leaf needs a good deep-cycle battery.

Or swap that lead-acid 12v out for a Lithium 12v! I haven't had a single problem or dead 12v battery and I leave my car at the airport for days at a time. Search for my name+12v for details or read my blog post at http://stanton.myevblog.com/2012/01/16/getting-the-lead-out/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
joerivct said:
I saw your battery post in some other thread - elegant but very expensive solution. I've been looking at these li ion batteries:

http://antigravitybatteries.com/oem-case-clymb/

The weight savings is incredible - biggest battery weighs 5 pounds!

Took a quick look at the website, and equivalent AHr capacity (around 22 AHr) to what I have installed is definitely cheaper, BUT--be careful what you're getting. I don't see where it mentions anything about a BMS, either for cell-balancing (critical to long life) or voltage limiting (although the Leaf shouldn't apply > 14.4 Vdc). I also find it interesting the equivalent battery capacity size/package weighs much less than mine (about half in fact): could it be the extra electronics/circuitry or something in the battery chemistry?
 
Update: After driving 30 miles to the dealer, they report that my 12v battery is "okay" but was low on charge (after driving 30 mi?). They said if it goes dead again, they will be glad to test it again. I'm not thrilled with that answer, any advise out there as to how I should proceed?
I talked with the Service Manager and explained that I didn't want to pay $34K for a new car and not be able to start it without a jump every morning, and he said that seemed reasonable, but he needs it to fail the tests on Nissan's machine in order to do a warranty replacement.
I sense some finger pointing to what seems maybe a rock and a hard place for me.
 
pyrotech said:
Update: After driving 30 miles to the dealer, they report that my 12v battery is "okay" but was low on charge (after driving 30 mi?). They said if it goes dead again, they will be glad to test it again. I'm not thrilled with that answer, any advise out there as to how I should proceed?
I talked with the Service Manager and explained that I didn't want to pay $34K for a new car and not be able to start it without a jump every morning, and he said that seemed reasonable, but he needs it to fail the tests on Nissan's machine in order to do a warranty replacement.
I sense some finger pointing to what seems maybe a rock and a hard place for me.

They should have done a load test. If they claim to have done so, you can get a 2nd opinion with a free load test at Autozone, I believe.

Pushing a weak 12V battery over the edge is pretty simple.

Personally I'd apply the Nubo value-of-time test. My time is worth money. And my "rates" for arm-twisting a recalcitrant dealership service department are even higher. You might be happier just replacing the battery on your own and be done with it. I replaced mine with a deep-cycle battery for peace of mind, and it wasn't even failing.
 
pyrotech said:
Update: After driving 30 miles to the dealer, they report that my 12v battery is "okay" but was low on charge (after driving 30 mi?).
That's the problem with the LEAF 12V charging system. It does not fully charge the battery. It charges at 14.4V for only a few minutes and then drops down to 13.1V, which does not charge, but simply maintains the charge level. So the LEAF 12V battery sits around half-charged much of the time. That leads to sulfation (the hardening of lead-sulfate) which reduces capacity. Eventually, you have a useless battery.

To try to prevent permanent damage from sulfation, I charge my LEAF 12V battery to full every couple of weeks using a battery maintainer I have.

It seems the designers of the charging system assumed that since it takes almost no energy to start the LEAF, that there is no need to replace more than a small amount of charge. What they have missed is how much charge is lost when the LEAF is OFF.
 
Stanton said:
joerivct said:
I saw your battery post in some other thread - elegant but very expensive solution. I've been looking at these li ion batteries:

http://antigravitybatteries.com/oem-case-clymb/

The weight savings is incredible - biggest battery weighs 5 pounds!

Took a quick look at the website, and equivalent AHr capacity (around 22 AHr) to what I have installed is definitely cheaper, BUT--be careful what you're getting. I don't see where it mentions anything about a BMS, either for cell-balancing (critical to long life) or voltage limiting (although the Leaf shouldn't apply > 14.4 Vdc). I also find it interesting the equivalent battery capacity size/package weighs much less than mine (about half in fact): could it be the extra electronics/circuitry or something in the battery chemistry?

All good questions - I plan to call them to get some answers, especially re BMS.
 
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