edatoakrun
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Tue Jun 18, 2013 11:37 am

="evnow"

...What I ultimately want to find out is - how many miles can I go if I'm getting, say 5.0 m/kWh on the dash. That is a question these lab results don't answer.
Nor (in all likelihood) can they, without additional effort on your part.

I know the answer for my LEAF for 5.0 m/kWh on the nav screen is presently ~81 miles from "100%" to VLBW, after recharging at ~75F, but that is only because I know that CarWings presently reports ~16.2 kWh used between those SOC levels.

But I'm pretty sure the ~16.2 kWh number is incorrect for my LEAF, and I don't think there is any reason to expect it would be correct for your LEAF, or for any other.

So while knowing the kWh capacity reported by CarWings, which is used to display the m/kWh on the nav screen, and (with ~2.5% miles error) on the dash is invaluable for my trip planning, it could never tell me what my actual kWh use was without a reference test, showing accurate kWh use in a controlled constant speed range test.

And now, with these test results, I believe I just may have the data I need.
no condition is permanent

madbrain
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Fri Jun 21, 2013 11:46 pm

Had another close call today.

I was about 9 miles from home and on 280 when I got the low battery warning .
I set the trip meter as recommended by Tony earlier in this thread.

I was already driving 50 mph. I put my warning lights and slowed down to 40mph and exited about 2 miles later.

Then I drove home on flat city streets at an average of 15-20 mph with warning lights on the whole time. I really wish the cruise control could be engaged at this low speed.

The trip meter was only at 7.4 miles when I got the very low battery warning (no bars or miles on dash).

I was at the bottom of the steep hill . I drove very slowly uphill, only about 8-9 mph. I made it home.

I'm looking at Tony's range chart at :
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I read this correctly, from LBW, I should be able to drive 13 miles at 40mph until VLB, or 16 miles at 35 mph.

And since I was driving < 20 mph, I should have been able to drive much farther than the 7.4 miles I got between LB and VLBW.

I don't have an OBDII bluetooth device yet.
I put my car to charge at 11:15pm. Updating carwings (with the garage door open) produces an estimate charge time of 7h30 at L2 . We will see.
I also turned the car off/on so I should have all the data for today's trips in carwings tomorrow.
I mapped them all in google maps and they add up to 83.3 miles. I think this is the most I have done on one charge.

Going to the movies now, in the Prius...

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TonyWilliams
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Sat Jun 22, 2013 1:01 am

madbrain wrote:
And since I was driving < 20 mph, I should have been able to drive much farther than the 7.4 miles I got between LB and VLBW.

I don't have an OBDII bluetooth device yet.
Was the heater on?

madbrain
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Sat Jun 22, 2013 2:53 am

TonyWilliams wrote:
madbrain wrote:
And since I was driving < 20 mph, I should have been able to drive much farther than the 7.4 miles I got between LB and VLBW.

I don't have an OBDII bluetooth device yet.
Was the heater on?
No.

Got the Carwings data for the whole day already (car is still charging) !

Image

Last leg has net 3.2 kWh, consumption 3.8 kWh, recharged 0.6 kWh . 13.6 miles . 4.3 miles/kWh .

That leg took about 45 minutes, including over 30 minutes past LBW mostly under 20 mph. Average speed for the whole leg : 18mph ... I did hit a lot of traffic lights, probably more than 10, but I was coasting to each one to regen.

4.3 seems like really low miles/kWh given the abysmally low speed. I know the uphill at the end is a mileage killer, but it still seems low. It's actually 2nd worst mileage of the 8 trips for the day!
I was not trying to conserve energy and had the A/C on for trips 1-6. I only slowed down to 55 freeway for trip 7, and then much slower for trip 8.

The daily miles only add up to 76.4 vs the 83.3 I had computed via google maps, but it turns out google maps had chosen longer routes with more freeway driving for about half the trips, not the ones I actually drove to avoid traffic earlier in the day and later conserve energy going home.

So this 76.4 on one charge is my all-time-best on one charge. I guess I have beaten the 73 miles EPA range for the first time . I probably had some juice left since I didn't hit turtle .

DaveinOlyWA
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:30 am

madbrain wrote:Had another close call today.

I was about 9 miles from home and on 280 when I got the low battery warning .
I set the trip meter as recommended by Tony earlier in this thread.

I was already driving 50 mph. I put my warning lights and slowed down to 40mph and exited about 2 miles later.

Then I drove home on flat city streets at an average of 15-20 mph with warning lights on the whole time. I really wish the cruise control could be engaged at this low speed.

The trip meter was only at 7.4 miles when I got the very low battery warning (no bars or miles on dash).

I was at the bottom of the steep hill . I drove very slowly uphill, only about 8-9 mph. I made it home.

I'm looking at Tony's range chart at :
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If I read this correctly, from LBW, I should be able to drive 13 miles at 40mph until VLB, or 16 miles at 35 mph.

And since I was driving < 20 mph, I should have been able to drive much farther than the 7.4 miles I got between LB and VLBW.

I don't have an OBDII bluetooth device yet.
I put my car to charge at 11:15pm. Updating carwings (with the garage door open) produces an estimate charge time of 7h30 at L2 . We will see.
I also turned the car off/on so I should have all the data for today's trips in carwings tomorrow.
I mapped them all in google maps and they add up to 83.3 miles. I think this is the most I have done on one charge.

Going to the movies now, in the Prius...
i understand your wanting to be safe but i wouldnt run 4 way flashers. i tend to just pay attention to traffic and tap my brakes just hard enough to light em up if i see someone coming up fast.

Guessing the 4 ways on a LEAF are pretty efficient but i remember on previous cars that they used to bump the ammeter.

as far as Tony's chart. keep in mind that steady speed driving is much more efficient so you really cant take your speed verses the chart unless you were on cruise control on a flat track with a windless day. IOW, you cant beat the chart. Life gets in the way.

looking at your carwings, i have to say you have a lot of hills and traffic control to deal with. I have to look at my carwings to really get a good line on it but i did not have the fix that for carwings (was told my VIN was "out of range") so it will probably tell me i averaged 7.5 miles/kwh for the month :?
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 13,705 mi, 93.41% SOH
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TonyWilliams
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:09 am

DaveinOlyWA wrote:... as far as Tony's chart. keep in mind that steady speed driving is much more efficient so you really cant take your speed verses the chart unless you were on cruise control on a flat track with a windless day. IOW, you cant beat the chart. Life gets in the way.
The next version of the chart will specifically de-emphasis (is that a word?) the speed part:

The chart is, and always has been, economy multiplied by stored energy equals range. Those speeds listed are for a very specific parameter of terrain, wind, velocity, etc that just happen to match a certain consumption rate. Aircraft charts, for instance, wouldn't have XX ground speed equals range because there are a myriad of unconsidered variables.

If you don't have level, or steady speed, or no wind, then you can't use just XX mph = YY miles/kWh of economy on the chart. I always thought it was clear to me, but it's becoming obvious that its a stumbling block. We used to have folks try to use "average" economy... that doesn't work, either.

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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:49 pm

TonyWilliams wrote:
DaveinOlyWA wrote:... as far as Tony's chart. keep in mind that steady speed driving is much more efficient so you really cant take your speed verses the chart unless you were on cruise control on a flat track with a windless day. IOW, you cant beat the chart. Life gets in the way.
The next version of the chart will specifically de-emphasis (is that a word?) the speed part:
Should be de-emphasize, but I think people get the point.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/de-emphasize" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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madbrain
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:06 pm

DaveinOlyWA wrote: i understand your wanting to be safe but i wouldnt run 4 way flashers. i tend to just pay attention to traffic and tap my brakes just hard enough to light em up if i see someone coming up fast.
When one is driving as slow as I was, I think it's necessary, especially on the freeway. I would rather be safe and out of power due to the flashers than hit.
as far as Tony's chart. keep in mind that steady speed driving is much more efficient so you really cant take your speed verses the chart unless you were on cruise control on a flat track with a windless day. IOW, you cant beat the chart. Life gets in the way.
I was certainly not trying to beat the chart, just surprised how far I was from matching it.
4.3 miles/kW on the chart corresponds to average speed of 55 mph, a speed I never hit even once.
I guess that the acceleration from all the traffic lights is responsible for all the reduced mileage. I was hardly flooring it though, and only going up to 20mph at most.

There are many disclaimers on the range chart, but the one about "urban stop-and-go traffic" (not exactly my case, sort of, with the traffic lights) is not overly helpful. One needs a way to figure out the estimated miles/kWh for those cases. And the chart really does not help with that. Obviously the miles/kWh were much lower than I thought they would be. I did not reset any of the miles/kWh counters on the dash after LBW or VLBW. Next time I will.
looking at your carwings, i have to say you have a lot of hills and traffic control to deal with. I have to look at my carwings to really get a good line on it but i did not have the fix that for carwings (was told my VIN was "out of range") so it will probably tell me i averaged 7.5 miles/kwh for the month :?
Actually most of the uphill was in that last leg, all the other trips were fairly flat except the first one which had some downhill, but I was driving with the rest of the traffic on the freeway (meaning I may have hit 70). There was more traffic for trips 2-6 so speeds were lower, and I didn't drive freeway as much.

And those are the best mileage numbers I have ever gotten for one whole day. I have never gotten all the trips for a day to be above 4 miles/kWh like I did yesterday. For sure going back home it was the only time that I ever got higher than 3.5 miles/kWh. My typical return commute is 3.0 - 3.3 miles/kWh on summer days (no A/C or heater) and well under that in the winter. The hill is mainly responsible for that.

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TonyWilliams
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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:26 am

madbrain wrote:I was certainly not trying to beat the chart, just surprised how far I was from matching it.
4.3 miles/kW on the chart corresponds to average speed of 55 mph, a speed I never hit even once.
I guess that the acceleration from all the traffic lights is responsible for all the reduced mileage. I was hardly flooring it though, and only going up to 20mph at most.
Common mistake... It's not "average" speed, but instead steady speed.

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Re: LEAF Range and kWh use, at 45, 60 and 70 mph DOE tests

Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:57 am

Sublime wrote:
jpa2825 wrote:Can anyone provide an Executive Summary for Dummies? Avg. m/kWh at 45, 60 & 70 mph maybe?
From the battery (from the wall):
45mph = 4.85mi/kWh (3.94mi/kWh)
60mph = 3.70mi/kWh (3.04mi/kWh)
70mph = 2.92mi/kWh (2.48mi/kWh)
These figures are just ridiculous. Those from the battery are so far off that it is just plain silly.
If I drove a steady 45mph, I would get at least 5.3m/kW h on my dash and would easily drive 115 miles. I don't need some useless CW that is NEVER as accurate as my car. When I drove 188 miles on one charge, my dash showed 8.8m/kW h and if you X by 21, you can see how damn accurate it really is. My 2011 was super accurate also. What a waste of time it would be to use CW!
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