Official BMW i3 thread

SanDust said:

From what I've read the standard i3 in the US will have a range extender.

Click to expand...

Wrong. It will be an option in the US - but will be available right from the start instead of being available later (like it was hinted a while back).

evnow said:

SanDust said:

From what I've read the standard i3 in the US will have a range extender.

Click to expand...

Wrong. It will be an option in the US - but will be available right from the start instead of being available later (like it was hinted a while back).

Click to expand...

Correct, it will definitely be optional. However the vast majority of US bound i3's will have the option. BMW expects 80%+ of the buyers will want it. Of course if they are wrong they'll adjust and ship more BEV i3's here. I do believe that initially at least, the REx take will be very high.

TomMoloughney said:

Correct, it will definitely be optional. However the vast majority of US bound i3's will have the option. BMW expects 80%+ of the buyers will want it. Of course if they are wrong they'll adjust and ship more BEV i3's here. I do believe that initially at least, the REx take will be very high.

Click to expand...

Tom,

Do you know whether BMW is working with state legislatures to add BEVx to sales tax exemption ? I think NJ & WA have sales tax exemption for BEV, but not PHEVs.

From ABG:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/08/bmw-i3-starts-near-35-000-na-first-deliveries-january-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

evnow said:

TomMoloughney said:

Correct, it will definitely be optional. However the vast majority of US bound i3's will have the option. BMW expects 80%+ of the buyers will want it. Of course if they are wrong they'll adjust and ship more BEV i3's here. I do believe that initially at least, the REx take will be very high.

Click to expand...

Tom,

Do you know whether BMW is working with state legislatures to add BEVx to sales tax exemption ? I think NJ & WA have sales tax exemption for BEV, but not PHEVs.

Click to expand...

I know this was on their radar, but really can't say if they are specifically trying to get an exemption. Unfortunately I'm not optimistic they would be successful. It's clear the tax exclusions were for zero emission vehicles and with the REx the car is clearly no longer a ZEV. My guess is that they are working with the states to try to get an exclusion, but that it may take a while to get them to change the law. A lot will depend on how California classifies it (BEVx or what) because typicality others follow. If BMW can get CA to give it a specific distinction BEVx or ??, which allows basically all the special treatment ZEV's get(tax incentives, HOV access, etc) then BMW can use that to lobby the other states. I just don't think it will happen quick enough for us to enjoy. If I hear anything on this, I'll let you know.

GRA said:

From ABG:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/08/bmw-i3-starts-near-35-000-na-first-deliveries-january-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

If this pricing is true: $34,500 for base i3 & $2,000 extra for REx, then I expect BMW to sell a lot of them

GRA said:

From ABG:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/08/bmw-i3-starts-near-35-000-na-first-deliveries-january-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

Thanks for the link, GRA. I hope that the pricing into is accurate, some of the other info is plain wrong (especially that ActiveE has a range extender ???...)

I can't see what it would (or should) have any different treatment than any other PHEV...

evnow said:

Do you know whether BMW is working with state legislatures to add BEVx to sales tax exemption ? I think NJ & WA have sales tax exemption for BEV, but not PHEVs.

Click to expand...

I3 and I8 spotted being tested on US-395 north of Mojave desert. 110 degree heat. There were a couple of I3s and one I8. Only managed to snap a picture of the last I3 and what appears to be a variant of the "range extender" option just behind it

TomMoloughney said:

GRA said:

From ABG:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/08/bmw-i3-starts-near-35-000-na-first-deliveries-january-2014/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Click to expand...

If this pricing is true: $34,500 for base i3 & $2,000 extra for REx, then I expect BMW to sell a lot of them

Click to expand...

If those prices were correct (which I doubt) and all the rest of the specs listed were accurate, it would likely put the I3 ahead of any other replacement candidate for my 2011 LEAF, to be available in the next few years.

But I'd still wait for some of the SAE DC's to show up before I'd buy.

And I'd still have to see one close-up, as from the photos I've seen so far, the I3 may, IMO, also actually surpass the LEAF in the "homely" category...

I just want to know if the battery pack is more durable than the LEAF.

KJD said:

I just want to know if the battery pack is more durable than the LEAF.

Click to expand...

Let's hope so. My experience with the ActiveE has not been all that great, but admittedly it's essentially a test mule. Perhaps Nissan is going to have a better solution for warm climates soon as well. I wish that problem did not exist in the first place.

SAE Automotive Engineering said:

The i3’s Drive Module is provided by BMW’s Dingolfing plant and completed at Leipzig. It is screwed and glued to the Life Module. The underfloor lithium-ion battery has eight modules and 96 cells. Although the cells are supplied, the battery modules are a proprietary development of BMW and manufactured at Dingolfing. The individual battery blocks each have their own safety system.

The car’s air conditioning refrigerant cools the i3’s battery pack, obviating the need for fans or additional pumps. Heat for preconditioning in low temperatures comes from the charging electricity supply. The cabin is heated via a heat pump in urban traffic, a 30% saving against regular electric heating. Battery performance typically shows a 5% degradation at -15°C (+5°F), and testing has been completed down to -35°C (-31°F).

LEDs are used for interior and exterior lighting. The i8 will use a laser lighting system; full details will be released later. The i3 has a bipolar electrical system with the earth wired as a separate and fully insulated line.

Click to expand...

Click to open

TomMoloughney said:

If this pricing is true: $34,500 for base i3 & $2,000 extra for REx, then I expect BMW to sell a lot of them

Click to expand...

Is that $34,500 after tax credit ? It sounds like that (the $500 is the hint) - so $42k before tax credit - which is right where we thought it would be. $2k for REx is nice - but not if that makes the sales tax come back making the REx effectively a $7k option.

edatoakrun said:

Which brings us back to the absurdity of BMW pursuing the SAE standard(s) in the first place.

Click to expand...

I've never understood why anyone thinks the SAE standard is the kludge. It's actually quite elegant. Start with the J1772 plug. That will support AC Level One and AC Level Two in both Europe and NA and just about anywhere else in the world. Change the J1772 connector by adding a temperature sensor and an automatic locking mechanism and you have DC Level One charging up to 40 kW using essentially the same plug as we use for J1772 AC charging. That's about what you get with Chademo now and would also work for Teslas. Add two larger pins and another ground and you now go far beyond Chademo with 100 kW charging, using the same connector and same protocols. You'd need a larger plug for this but at these power levels there is no way around that.

Other than cost, complexity, and design challenges it wouldn't seem that Chademo has much to contribute. Chademo makes no sense unless having one hardware and software system for AC charging and a separate one for DC charging is a good idea.

evnow said:

Wrong. It will be an option in the US - but will be available right from the start instead of being available later

Click to expand...

It won't exactly be an option since it will come with every car. Maybe in the universe you and Tom inhabit I'm wrong, but, from where I sit, if ALL the i3s come equipped with the range extender then this is definitely the "default". From the story: It should be noted that all initial US inventory will see the i3 come equipped with the range extender option

TomMoloughney said:

If this pricing is true: $34,500 for base i3 & $2,000 extra for REx, then I expect BMW to sell a lot of them

Click to expand...

If this pricing is before rebates and credits then I agree. But if it's after then, given how BMW splits out and prices options, this is going to be a very expensive car. The range extender is a killer option for competing with the Leaf. However, at close to $50K before credits and rebates it's not competing with the Leaf and I think BMW will struggle with low volumes. That the car resembles is a Pontiac Aztek doesn't help.

It has TMS so it almost has to be...

KJD said:

I just want to know if the battery pack is more durable than the LEAF.

Click to expand...

SanDust said:

It won't exactly be an option since it will come with every car. Maybe in the universe you and Tom inhabit I'm wrong, but, from where I sit, if ALL the i3s come equipped with the range extender then this is definitely the "default". From the story: It should be noted that all initial US inventory will see the i3 come equipped with the range extender option

Click to expand...

Not sure what story you are referring to, but BMW has stated multiple times that it would be an option. Infact they predict some 85% of initial buyers will pick that option.

It is possible the first batch of cars will all have the REx option. Doesn't make that a standard.

evnow said:

SanDust said:

It won't exactly be an option since it will come with every car. Maybe in the universe you and Tom inhabit I'm wrong, but, from where I sit, if ALL the i3s come equipped with the range extender then this is definitely the "default". From the story: It should be noted that all initial US inventory will see the i3 come equipped with the range extender option

Click to expand...

Not sure what story you are referring to, but BMW has stated multiple times that it would be an option. Infact they predict some 85% of initial buyers will pick that option.

It is possible the first batch of cars will all have the REx option. Doesn't make that a standard.

Click to expand...

The whole "first batch of i3 will have range extender" story came about because there were people questioning whether or not the range extender would be available from the beginning or of BMW would add it as an option some time after the initial launch. This is because a while ago -maybe a year and a half or so, a BMW rep said he wasn't sure if the REx would be ready for the initial launch. So when someone asked BMW NA CEO Ludwig Willisch if the REx would be available at launch or later he said it would be available at launch and in fact the first batch if i3's the US gets which will likely arrive sometime in December, will all have the range extender option.

It really seems he was just confirming that you will be able to get the option right from the beginning. Maybe the first 100 cars that land here will have it so that's what he was saying I suppose. That being said, most of the i3 coming to the US will indeed have the option, because BMW expects most of the people buying the car to want it but it is indeed an option and the base i3 will be pure electric.

evnow said:

TomMoloughney said:

If this pricing is true: $34,500 for base i3 & $2,000 extra for REx, then I expect BMW to sell a lot of them

Click to expand...

Is that $34,500 after tax credit ? It sounds like that (the $500 is the hint) - so $42k before tax credit - which is right where we thought it would be. $2k for REx is nice - but not if that makes the sales tax come back making the REx effectively a $7k option.

Click to expand...

Tax issue for you is only in your state...most of the rest of us pay the taxes either way. My question is about the pack size. Is the i3 pack the same size as the i3REx? Or are they removing some of the cells to make room for the ICE?

palmermd said:

Tax issue for you is only in your state...most of the rest of us pay the taxes either way. My question is about the pack size. Is the i3 pack the same size as the i3REx? Or are they removing some of the cells to make room for the ICE?

Click to expand...

NJ also has the same tax issue.

Rex is a pure additional option - no reduction in battery size.

palmermd said:

evnow said:

TomMoloughney said:

If this pricing is true: $34,500 for base i3 & $2,000 extra for REx, then I expect BMW to sell a lot of them

Click to expand...

Is that $34,500 after tax credit ? It sounds like that (the $500 is the hint) - so $42k before tax credit - which is right where we thought it would be. $2k for REx is nice - but not if that makes the sales tax come back making the REx effectively a $7k option.

Click to expand...

Tax issue for you is only in your state...most of the rest of us pay the taxes either way. My question is about the pack size. Is the i3 pack the same size as the i3REx? Or are they removing some of the cells to make room for the ICE?

Click to expand...

The battery pack will be the exact same size on both trims. It's located in an enclosed "tray" under the cabin. There is some space set aside for the range extender next to the EV drivetrain. A small gas tank will be added in the font, and will likely encroach on the limited frunk space under the hood.