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TonyWilliams
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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 5:20 pm

I'm shocked that the Frankenplug isn't standard, and more shocked that it's $2000 to put a plug in a premade hole that will have one plug or the other anyway.

Hey, BMW, I wouldn't consider your car with a Frankenplug, but I'll pay $2000 for a CHAdeMO plug and the REx motor.

But, since BMW is part of a consortium bloc, I'll bet that one falls on deaf ears. In other news, world leader Tesla is offering a CHAdeMO DC adapter this fall and are using the Mennekes Type 2 DC now for Euro-land, plus their own proprietary Supercharger plug for the USA/Canada. Hmmm, they don't seem to care what country or bloc you're a member of... they just make electric cars that charge everywhere!

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evnow
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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:34 pm

SanDust wrote:Agree with the review. I wanted to like it but simply don't. Looks like a Rocky Mountain Institute design exercise not a $55,000 car. Comparing it to the Leaf and the Volt, take out the range extender and you have a less functional Leaf for twice the price. Add the range extender and it's a Volt with less utility at a higher price. With or without the range extender it's not half as attractive as the Fiat 500e.
It is all a question of perspective. Facts follow the narrative rather than the other way round.

Comparing it to the Leaf and the Volt, take out the range extender and you have a premium Leaf range EV with carbon fiber and thermal cooling. Add the range extender and it's a Volt with more than double the EV range.

It combines the "best" of Leaf & Volt. Of course being a BMW, it will be more expensive but will serve the status conscious well.
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
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blackmamba
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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:58 pm

evnow wrote: Comparing it to the Leaf and the Volt, take out the range extender and you have a premium Leaf range EV with carbon fiber and thermal cooling. Add the range extender and it's a Volt with more than double the EV range.

It combines the "best" of Leaf & Volt. Of course being a BMW, it will be more expensive but will serve the status conscious well.
It may be a max Leaf as you say, but its 87 mile Rex range at a compromised performance level doesn't come close to the Rex range and performance of the Volt. Saying 'it combines the "best" of both' is purely hogwash. That said, the BMW name gives it a lot of credibility which make things interesting. I have no idea if it will be a success or a flop due to its bizarre styling and meager Rex performance, but it's sure going to be interesting to see where the market goes with it.

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surfingslovak
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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:13 pm

blackmamba wrote: It may be a max Leaf as you say, but its 87 mile Rex range at a compromised performance level doesn't come close to the Rex range and performance of the Volt. Saying 'it combines the "best" of both' is purely hogwash. That said, the BMW name gives it a lot of credibility which make things interesting. I have no idea if it will be a success or a flop due to its bizarre styling and meager Rex performance, but it's sure going to be interesting to see where the market goes with it.
I'm not sure if it's fair to say that the REx performance will be as severely compromised as your post would imply. The jury is still out, but I have maintained from the beginning that if the REx was augmented with battery power, the difference relative to purely electric mode might not be noticeable. The Volt operates differently in charge sustaining mode, I believe.

Tom mentioned that he learned in a conversation with BMW representatives the orher day that the REx should not be considered as a limp-home feature. I would therefore caution not to jump to conclusions before all the facts are known. Although I too was hoping for more on couple of fronts, the i3 could prove to be an effective entrant in its market segment, with specs that are comparable to both the LEAF and the Volt.

Let's see how it does, it's always good to have more options on the EV market.
Last edited by surfingslovak on Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:17 pm

blackmamba wrote:Saying 'it combines the "best" of both' is purely hogwash.
I think evnow's point is that, from an EV-centric perspective, the best thing about the leaf is its pure EV range. The i3 looks to have slightly more pure EV range than the Leaf. The best thing about the Volt, from an EV-centric perspective, is that it has TMS and a range extender. The i3 has both of these as well. So the i3 does combine the best of both. Unfortunately, it sort of combines the price, too.
Style-wise, I think it looks good but it's hard to tell from the pictures, I need to see one in person. If the lease rates are right on these, I would definitely consider one.
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Boourns
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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:27 pm

That "review" is asinine. First, he hasn't driven the car. More importantly, the i3 is NOT BMW's answer to the Model S. That is the i8. The i3 and Model S are not built with the same purpose in mind. The i3 is a city car. The Model S is a grand tourer. That's not to say you can't use the Tesla in the city or the i3 on a well-planned road trip, but the point is that the i3 was not meant to compete with the Tesla.

And that whole argument about being "good for an electric car" is equally stupid. The i3 will get to 60 as fast or faster than a 320i, which costs just about as much once you option it up to get what comes standard on the i3.
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ydnas7
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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:33 pm

jhm614 wrote:
blackmamba wrote:Saying 'it combines the "best" of both' is purely hogwash.
I think evnow's point is that, from an EV-centric perspective, the best thing about the leaf is its pure EV range. The i3 looks to have slightly more pure EV range than the Leaf.
correction, the i3 looks to have slightly less pure EV range than the Leaf.

NEDC cycles
i3 190km
i3+REX 170km
LEAF 199km

this is a city type cycle, so if the LEAF is 5%-15% more range in the city...

and as far vs the volt, at least the volt has a normal gas tank

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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:42 pm

ydnas7 wrote:NEDC cycles
i3 190km
i3+REX 170km
LEAF 199km
I stand corrected! When I got my Leaf the NEDC was 175km. I had no idea the '13 had that large of an improvement. Still, I think the i3 is a pretty good combo of pure EV range & REX.
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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:43 pm

SanDust wrote:Review in Slate: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense ... uv_on.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Agree with the review. I wanted to like it but simply don't. Looks like a Rocky Mountain Institute design exercise not a $55,000 car. Comparing it to the Leaf and the Volt, take out the range extender and you have a less functional Leaf for twice the price. Add the range extender and it's a Volt with less utility at a higher price. With or without the range extender it's not half as attractive as the Fiat 500e.
Of course it's faster than any of those cars. Not a speed demon though. If speed is your thing, compared to the Spark, you're paying almost $30,000 to get to 60 MPH .4 seconds faster. You'd pay a lot less per/10th with a Model S. With the range extender you're paying $30,000 more to go .3 seconds slower.
Let's keep the price comparisons apples-to-apples. The base i3 is a touch over $42k and comes quite well equipped. The Spark is tiny and cheap feeling by comparison, and the price difference is more like $17k. Not chump change, to be sure, but not $30k. And the Fiat is also a tiny 2 door with awful torque steer, at least the one I drove, and it's slow by comparison.

As for speed, I need a car that is fairly quick, combined with the practicality to seat at least four and some baggage. In an ideal world, I could have three or more cars around, and one might be a Spark EV just for fun driving, if it really turns out to be a good all around performer. But I can hack only two cars, and that's it. So a quick, comfortable, efficient EV that's a ball to drive like the i3 may turn out to be, makes a nice compromise.

I'll agree with evnow in saying that the BEV i3 is a much faster, more efficient rear drive LEAF with TMS., and compared with a Volt, the REx i3 is roomier inside, has a better trunk, a frunk, is faster, more efficient and has twice the AER. If most Volt drivers work hard not to use any gas in daily driving, that would be far easier in an i3 and the car could still be used for longer drives.
Last edited by Boomer23 on Tue Jul 30, 2013 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TonyWilliams
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Re: Official BMW I3, I8 / megacity EV thread

Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:20 pm

The teeny gasoline tank is strictly for California. I predict that a bigger gas tank will be the number one modification for folks that ABSOLUTELY have to have more range. I'll bet they keep their California HOV sticker, too.

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