Valdemar
Well-known member
smkettner said:
I would be too, if it lasted 10 years in hot climate on a high mileage vehicle. But it doesn't and it won't.
Update on Battery Warranty Enhancement for 2011 & 2012 LEAF
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I would be too, if it lasted 10 years in hot climate on a high mileage vehicle. But it doesn't and it won't.
TimLee
Well-known member
Although I was with the majority that would have liked the battery price to be less than 1/2 my savings on gasoline, that is clearly completely unrealistic.TomT said:
I've felt that the best most "reasonable" price that Nissan would ever offer with trade in of the existing battery and including swap out would be $300 per kWh; total of $7,200.
They have absolutely got to get the price to that level for electric vehicle to be competitive with ICE, even with the current federal $7,500 credit.
And in my situation of low miles per year it will still be slightly more costly than driving a 4 cylinder Altima.
And that is completely disregarding value of the LEAF vs ICE after +10 years of ownership. The LEAF is like all new cutting edge products, its used value is dropping like a rock. $34,800 MSRP (paid $34,000); currently at best worth around $16,500, after only owning for 27 months. On a Nissan trade-in and with Nissan's paltry $1,000 loyalty program you might get $18,250.
Hard to know what Nissan's real battery price is now, or will be in two or three years.
The new "Hot" chemistry appears they may expect at least 5 year life even in Phoenix.
At $100 per month rental, if the average life they get between replacements is eight years, that is $9,600. And with my low miles per year, that will be > 17 cents per mile just for the battery rental. So I won't be doing that.
TomT
Well-known member
Andy indicated last night that Nissan has no interest in making a profit on the replacement of batteries... They feel they will loose money on the early side of the replacement or lease curve, in fact.
smkettner said:
cwerdna
Well-known member
It sounds like some So Cal folks made the trek to Phoenix...
I take it that this meeting wasn't taped/filmed? Was it in a similar style to the 1st Phoenix town hall? Hopefully Andy and company got to experience the Phoenix heat...
I take it that this meeting wasn't taped/filmed? Was it in a similar style to the 1st Phoenix town hall? Hopefully Andy and company got to experience the Phoenix heat...
TomT
Well-known member
No, it was a small invitation-only dinner meeting with some Leaf drivers from Phoenix and few from out of town, and with some specific talking points on the agenda. Ironically, it was cooler in Phoenix today (about 15 degrees below normal) that is was in the San Fernando Valley in CA.
cwerdna said:
surfingslovak
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Tom, it's good to see that you were invited and participated last night.TomT said:
TomT
Well-known member
I was very honored and privileged to have been invited to attend! I felt it was worthwhile and enjoyed participating and interacting with everyone there. I believe that everyone on both sides left with some good food for thought.
surfingslovak said:
surfingslovak
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TomT said:
Excellent, very good to hear! There was a separate meeting with the local group at NRC-SV in Sunnyvale, but the topic was quite different. It would be good to exchange notes sometime.
The option of 3 different battery pack sizes would broaden the market for the LEAF, no doubt about it.surfingslovak said:drees said:
Great comment. While completely understandable, I too find it disappointing that most car makers settle for about 80 miles of real-world EV range today. Adding 6 to 10 kWh would not carry a huge weight or price penalty, but it could have a significant impact on sales. Especially, if this was offered as on option, much like what Tesla initially did with their 40, 60 and 85 kWh battery pack configuration.
Driving electric is addictive. No way do I want to go back to driving a gas guzzler again. Give us the option to buy more range in a LEAF.
scottf200
Well-known member
Can't you just do some "non-babying" charging and driving to make up for it?Valdemar said:
Valdemar
Well-known member
scottf200 said:
That is the plan, it is just it seems wrong and even then I may not get down to 8 bars in time without major abuse.
phxsmiley
Well-known member
I came away really impressed with the meeting. Everybody was cordial with each other, and there was opportunity to address questions as a group and also one-on-one with Nissan executives. I believe that they will take and consider our suggestions/comments.
I was glad that we heard months ago about the 60K Battery Warranty, but this meeting confirmed that this wasn't the end of the story, and Nissan was working to improving the technology where it needed it the most.
I was glad that we heard months ago about the 60K Battery Warranty, but this meeting confirmed that this wasn't the end of the story, and Nissan was working to improving the technology where it needed it the most.
surfingslovak
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I think the warranty could use a clause about prorated pack replacements for three-bar or even two-bar losers.Valdemar said:
TimLee
Well-known member
+1surfingslovak said:
Just like some of those early $10,000 plasma TVs had major deficiencies and experienced burn-in problems, we now know the 2011 / 2012 LEAF battery is first generation chemistry, 2013 is a bit better second generation chemistry, and 2014 (at least at some point in 2014 cycle) will be markedly improved much more heat tolerant chemistry.
If you live where the 2011 / 2012 battery dies soon enough due to use or temperature or abuse, maybe you get a nice new third generation heat tolerant brand new battery.
If you don't, you have a first generation LEAF with battery degraded sooner than what Nissan said would likely happen. A lot like a $10,000 plasma with bad burn in.
But you've got a SYB $100 per month battery rental option!!
:shock: :?TimLee
Well-known member
Thanks to all those that reported on the meeting with Nissan!
A lot of great people on MNL.
A lot of great people on MNL.
thankyouOB
Well-known member
TimLee said:Thanks to all those that reported on the meeting with Nissan!
A lot of great people on MNL.
is nissan going to give a report or answer queries?
all of this is very third hand.
Boomer23
Well-known member
surfingslovak said:
+2
Even two bars is a lot of range to lose, especially for someone who based the purchase on a commute that is 90% of the range of a new LEAF, with no warning from Nissan about significant potential loss of range within the first two to three years.
+3Boomer23 said:
I haven't even lost a bar (though I'm close) and I feel like I've lost a lot of range (all updates applied). But simply knowing I could buy a replacement at some price would buy some peace of mind. An eternal rental simply does not do it for me, even though it very well could be a better deal.
For example, I drove 58 miles today mostly freeway at 65 mph. Should be easy, no? After all, a new car will do at least 80 miles under these conditions and back when it was 6 months old I did over 70 miles before LBW in similar conditions.
Got home with an indicated 4.3 mi/kWh just after LBW (43 GIDs), so it sure seems like I've lost 12 miles off of my original 70 mile freeway range which is between 15-20% loss of usable capacity.
And no, I don't live in a hot climate and the car is only 2 years old with a typical amount of miles for it's age. Yet it's showing range loss I didn't expect for another 3 years based on what Nissan said to expect (20% after 5 years, 30% after 8 years) given that I follow good battery care practice by using an end-only timer for 80% and only occasionally charge to 100% and when I do I start driving immediately after it's done charging.
I suspect that some of the discrepancy is gauge error and it's possible that some additional range is hidden between LBW and Turtle. And while I otherwise enjoy the car (though I wish it had another 25% more power along with range), I have to add the caveat that you shouldn't expect to drive more than 60 miles on the freeway (and that number has been declining along with my battery capacity) - since I doubt that many people have the patience to drive that slow - even at 65 mph I was nearly always the slowest car on the road. In fact - I can't even remember passing anyone except for the occasional truck.
thankyouOB
Well-known member
KJD said:
funny.
