best charger option for a 2013 Leaf S with Quick Charge pack

hi

i'm new to the forum. finally leased my first leaf (was on the original wait list for leaf 3 years back but never had the courage then)

anyways, got a leaf S with quick charge. black and black. (incase anyone is shopping - here is what i got in san jose - 2499 drive off and 205 per month -- both including taxes and all fees. 36 month lease. 395 disposition at end.)

Im super confused about the charging situation. Didn't realize that trickle charger will take so long. the nissan dalership which has a DC charger is only 5 minutes away but its not practical to wait there for 30 minutes. work doesnt have 240 v chargers. has enough 110 v. outlets.

I'm assuming for a 40 mile commute (round trip) each day, i should get a 240 V charger at home. I've also heard of some one in Berkeley modifying the charger that came with the car.

What is the most recommended and cost effective fast way to charge the car?

The Charge Package on the S model includes both the Quick Charge port and the faster 6kW charger built into the car. But as you have discovered, 6kW applies only if you are charging from 220 volts or higher. 120v charging fills the battery at a rate of only a bit more than 1kW. The QC port is only usable if you can find a Quick Charger somewhere. Since you are apparently in the San Jose area there are quite a number of those up the Peninsula, but only a scattered few elsewhere. [Not counting Tesla Superchargers, which LEAFs can't use, the one at Premier Nissan in San Jose is the only one south of I-280 until you get to the LA area!] Plugshare will tell you where the Quick Charge stations are.

Some people do manage a 40 mile commute with 120v charging only, but it takes some planning and a firm resolution to avoid high freeway speeds. Some of them may jump in here and assure you that they travel 40 or even 50 miles per day and use only L1 charging. Personally I wouldn't recommend it if you use South Bay freeways regularly, unless you can also charge at work. On the other hand, I think you were saying that there were plenty of 120v outlets available to you at work. So long as that continues to be true, a 40 mile commute really shouldn't be that hard. Maybe you just need to ease up on the accelerator pedal a bit.

"Someone in Berkeley" is Phil, also known here as Ingineer. Go to his EVSE Upgrade website to see what he is offering. I think it's safe to say that there are thousands of us who recommend it highly. I've probably done 98% of all my charging in the past 28 months using his upgraded unit. You won't find anything less expensive or more reliable. It will not drive your on-board charger at 6kW, but if you connect it to a 30A 240v circuit it will charge your car four times as fast as what you have now. And as a bonus you can get inexpensive adapters that will let you charge just as fast virtually anywhere that has 240v electricity, such as RV campgrounds, friends with a dryer outlet, or shops that do welding.

Ray

Some people do manage a 40 mile commute with 120v charging only, but it takes some planning and a firm resolution to avoid high freeway speeds. Some of them may jump in here and assure you that they travel 40 or even 50 miles per day and use only L1 charging.

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Yes, because what you wrote just isn't true. I charged to 90% last night (more like 89%, as it read when I finished backing up to leave for work), drove 21.5 miles to work, about half of it doing 58-60MPH, most at 47MPH, and a little at 30MPH, then did the same route in reverse coming home. I had 38% charge left, with an estimated range of 39 miles, which translates to about 20 miles without dipping much into the reserve. I use L-1 charging only. Now if by " freeway speeds" you mean 65-70MPH, you need to specify that, but I have little doubt I could take the 65MPH route to work and home, simply by charging to 95% or so. Someone with a 40 mile round trip commute does not have to worry about L-1 charging, even in Winter, as long as they have the heat pump or have insulated their heater lines. I wish you folks who keep claiming otherwise would pick a more reasonable number, like "above 50 miles" and specify " driving over the speed limit" while you're at it...

OP, to avoid confusion, you should use the proper terminology. The charger is on-board the car. For the '13, it's under the hood.

The L1 "trickle charge" cord set (cable w/brick and J1772 handle) is NOT a charger.

See diagram at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=262630#p262630" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

I like the evse upgrade charger and I have one, but I think it's best to just pay the money and get a full size level 2 charger installed. Several times now there were times for me where I wanted to go somewhere after work and needed a quick charge. I plug in at home, go inside and eat and do other simple daily routines for an hour or so, then go back out and drive some more. Like today after work, I'm going to drive to the mountains to go hiking. I want my car to charge as fast as possible, and to be able to charge at 6.3 KW instead of 4.5KW is worth spending 600 bucks to install a full size one. I want to be hiking, not sitting at home waiting for my car to charge. I just use the evse one as a backup and as a portable charger.

^^^
Again, please get the terminology correct. For L1 and L2 charging, the charger is on-board the car. The L1 brick w/cord and 120-240 volt charging stations are EVSEs, not chargers.

It becomes very confusing when people use the wrong terminology and don't realize the charging rate is limited by the "weakest links" or least common denominators, for lack of a better term (e.g. max EVSE output, max OBC draw/output and line voltage).

The OBC got moved from the rear of the car on the '11 and '12 to be integrated into the PDM under the hood on the '13s. See http://sfbayleafs.org/news/2013/01/2013-nissan-leaf-product-highlights/attachment/13leafproduct8/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/11993/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

LeftieBiker said:

planet4ever said:

Some people do manage a 40 mile commute with 120v charging only, but it takes some planning and a firm resolution to avoid high freeway speeds.

Click to expand...

Now if by " freeway speeds" you mean 65-70MPH, you need to specify that

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By "high freeway speeds" I meant 70 mph and up, speeds which are very common in the San Jose area the OP is from, especially if you use the diamond lanes that the CA white stickers give LEAFs access to.

Ray

^^^
Yep. Most highways around here have a 65 mph speed limit and I end up doing 68-72 mph to keep up w/traffic but often at 70+ mph, and sometimes briefly at 75 mph.

Hi Johnrhansen,
i thought getting a new charger (hardware plus installation) is a 2000 dollar thing. do i not have that right?

For folks who are using the Berkeley upgrade, did you get a new plug installed in your garage? my dryer is in the laundry room that is next to the garage but definitely not in the garage...

BTW - i was on the original list of leaf (2-3 years ago) and had qualified for ecotality free charger. i assume that i can't avail that now right? if anyone knows differently, can you please share your tips and tricks.

BTW - this forum rocks. great feedback.

johnrhansen said:

I like the evse upgrade charger and I have one, but I think it's best to just pay the money and get a full size level 2 charger installed. Several times now there were times for me where I wanted to go somewhere after work and needed a quick charge. I plug in at home, go inside and eat and do other simple daily routines for an hour or so, then go back out and drive some more. Like today after work, I'm going to drive to the mountains to go hiking. I want my car to charge as fast as possible, and to be able to charge at 6.3 KW instead of 4.5KW is worth spending 600 bucks to install a full size one. I want to be hiking, not sitting at home waiting for my car to charge. I just use the evse one as a backup and as a portable charger.

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99nissanmaxima said:

Hi Johnrhansen,
i thought getting a new EVSE (hardware plus installation) is a 2000 dollar thing. do i not have that right?

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FYP. You're looking for an EVSE, NOT a charger.

As for price, depends on the price of the EVSE hardware, installation and city permit. Unfortunately, the city permit for a residential EVSE in San Jose appears to be $310! :evil: If your place requires electrical upgrades, the price can be REALLY high.

There are some cheaper EVSEs like http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the Clipper Creek LCS-25.

cwerdna said:

You're looking for an EVSE, NOT a charger.

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Right. I could live with "station", which is a short form of "charging station", too.

planet4ever said:

LeftieBiker said:

planet4ever said:

Some people do manage a 40 mile commute with 120v charging only, but it takes some planning and a firm resolution to avoid high freeway speeds.

Click to expand...

Now if by " freeway speeds" you mean 65-70MPH, you need to specify that

Click to expand...

By "high freeway speeds" I meant 70 mph and up, speeds which are very common in the San Jose area the OP is from, especially if you use the diamond lanes that the CA white stickers give LEAFs access to.

Click to expand...

cwerdna said:

^^^
Yep. Most highways around here have a 65 mph speed limit and I end up doing 68-72 mph to keep up w/traffic but often at 70+ mph, and sometimes briefly at 75 mph.

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Yup. California is the land of "10 over." On freeways it's more like 15 over. When I was in the San Jose area a few weeks ago, 75-80 was quite common on area freeways unless traffic prevented it, or a marked police cruiser was present.

I just bought my EVSE and put it in myself. My AV station cost 800, and just had to run 10 feet of conduit, so the wiring didn't cost much. But if you use any 240 volt EVSE you are going to need wiring for it anyway, unless you want to disconnect your dryer every time you charge your car.

Yup. California is the land of "10 over." On freeways it's more like 15 over. When I was in the San Jose area a few weeks ago, 75-80 was quite common on area freeways unless traffic prevented it, or a marked police cruiser was present.

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So you're talking about speeding for long distances. "Freeways" are not always 80MPH autobahns and Leaf drivers tend to be a bit more responsible. Around here we have people driving 80 too - and making life harder for those of us trying to drive at a reasonable speed, like 60. So when you talk about 40 mile round trips commutes being a problem, please remember to add "when driving 70MPh or more." And I'll add, when I say a 40 mile commute is easy with L-1 "unless you drive too fast for safety." I wonder how many of the Ecotopia blow-outs are heat-related...

LeftieBiker said:

Yup. California is the land of "10 over." On freeways it's more like 15 over. When I was in the San Jose area a few weeks ago, 75-80 was quite common on area freeways unless traffic prevented it, or a marked police cruiser was present.

Click to expand...

So you're talking about speeding for long distances. "Freeways" are not always 80MPH autobahns and Leaf drivers tend to be a bit more responsible. Around here we have people driving 80 too - and making life harder for those of us trying to drive at a reasonable speed, like 60. So when you talk about 40 mile round trips commutes being a problem, please remember to add "when driving 70MPh or more." And I'll add, when I say a 40 mile commute is easy with L-1 "unless you drive too fast for safety." I wonder how many of the Ecotopia blow-outs are heat-related...

Click to expand...

Not just long distances. Californians like to speed, especially on freeways. Californians tend to use freeways over surface streets even if they are not going that far. Sometimes they'll enter a freeway just to exit again at the next ramp even if a parallel surface street would have gotten them to the same place just as quickly. You may not see that behavior where you are, possibly because of tolling or because the ramps are miles apart, but it's fairly common in the urbanized areas of California.

I prefer to stay off the freeway if possible, and if I don't have a choice I will stay in the right lane and "hang out with the truckers." For that reason you will rarely see me in the carpool lane unless the regular lanes are already going slow due to traffic volumes.

On larger arterial surface streets, it's also very common for me to be "blown past" by someone going well above the posted limit, only for me to catch up to them at the next light.

sorry but i don't have my terminology right and i really appreciate your help.

is EVSE the full wall mounted charger with the "gun" thingie at the end that goes directly into my car charging port. right? and we can buy that for 500-600 bucks? if yes, which one please.

and is that what requires a 300 dollar permit and a lot of electrician fees?

johnrhansen said:

I just bought my EVSE and put it in myself. My AV station cost 800, and just had to run 10 feet of conduit, so the wiring didn't cost much. But if you use any 240 volt EVSE you are going to need wiring for it anyway, unless you want to disconnect your dryer every time you charge your car.

Click to expand...

99nissanmaxima said:

sorry but i don't have my terminology right and i really appreciate your help.

is EVSE the full wall mounted charger with the "gun" thingie at the end that goes directly into my car charging port. right? and we can buy that for 500-600 bucks? if yes, which one please.

and is that what requires a 300 dollar permit and a lot of electrician fees?

Click to expand...

Yes, doesn't matter if it's wall-mounted or not. If it's for L1 or L2 (120 to 240 volt) charging, it's an EVSE.

As for $500-$600, I mentioned it when I said "There are some cheaper EVSEs like http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the Clipper Creek LCS-25." I have no experience w/them. Wall-mounted EVSEs used to typically run around $1K for the hardware only. Glad there's finally some price competition.

As for $300 permit, the cost depends on the city. It seems to be $310 for San Jose, CA. By seems, it's a long story. As for electrician fees, depends on the amount of work needed.

You could apply for http://evsolutions.avinc.com/products/cec/eligibility_criteria" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. All you'd need to pay for is the permit (+ any fees for pulling the permit by the contractor) and if any custom work is required beyond what's provided.

I posted about my experience at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7261#p7261" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. I can't find my post now but basically, I leased at end of July, when the "charger" :roll: count at the site was 0. I brought in the PDF to the dealer about the program. Saleswoman basically said the info on the site (at the time) was wrong and it's pissing off Nissan (messing up their sales) and they're trying to get it changed. Anyhow, I got approved, but it took almost a month for approval.

Contractor that AV uses has emailed me and spoken to me and for San Jose, they say it will be $360 for the permit ($310 to the city and $50 for the electrician to do the drawing, load calculations, etc.) She said that SJ is a really expensive city.

Trying to get an answer out of the city over the phone was a big waste of time. I finally got a human and she didn't even know but could lookup how much they'd be charging others: $309.66.

99nissanmaxima said:

For folks who are using the Berkeley upgrade, did you get a new plug installed in your garage? my dryer is in the laundry room that is next to the garage but definitely not in the garage...

BTW - i was on the original list of leaf (2-3 years ago) and had qualified for ecotality free charger. i assume that i can't avail that now right? if anyone knows differently, can you please share your tips and tricks.

Click to expand...

I was offered a "free" EVSE when I got my car, but I turned it down because

• I had already purchased an EVSE Upgrade (new ones were much cheaper in those days before Nissan doubled the price of their trickle charging cord).
• Ecotality had given me a $2000 installation quote the previous year based on the standard type of wiring from my distribution panel.
• I ignored the city inspection (shhh!) and ran two feet of wiring from the house side of my solar panel breakers through 20A breakers in a new subpanel and to the new L6-20 outlet.

Ray

cwerdna said:

As for $500-$600, I mentioned it when I said "There are some cheaper EVSEs like http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=12744" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the Clipper Creek LCS-25." I have no experience w/them.

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I had the LCS-25 for a brief period of time. These are great and well-built EVSEs. One caveat is that they only deliver about 20 amps to the vehicle, even though they are marketed with 25 amps. Turns out that this is the input, not the output, and the manufacturer is taking some liberties with their marketing. That said, the LCS-25 could work well, even though it does not charge a 2013 LEAF with 6 kW onboard charger at the full speed. I ended up returning this EVSE, because it would not work with a regular 120V wall outlet. Compared to EVSE Upgrade, this is a serious shortfall, if you would like to use it on an occasional trip, and avoid hauling two EVSEs instead of just one. Personally, if I was in your situation, I would get the portable EVSE upgraded and have an electrician install an additional 240V outlet in your garage. Much like what Ray described above. I don't think that you will be able to beat the utility and the overall price of this solution.

99nissanmaxima said:

BTW - this forum rocks. great feedback.

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Yes it does. Spend a good weekend reading and you'll learn much more and be able to ask better questions. Here are several threads that have provided this information many times before:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=10776&p=247635#p247635
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13749&start=10#p313748
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index.php?title=Charging_System