New (2013) motor and battery pack cutaway displays

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mwalsh

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Haven't seen these posted anywhere before (including the web at large), so I don't know if these displays are fairly new? But there are two out there - a 2013 propulsion assembly, complete with inverter and charger, and a 2013 battery pack assembly.

The cutaways on the propulsion assembly are in the motor, showing it's windings, and in what they call the "reducer" (in the absence of anything better to call it, like a gearbox/transmission). I knew this reducer would be fairly simple, but I personally feel there are a couple more gears in there than there really needs to be. Perhaps those of you with engineering backgrounds can tell me why the one large helical gear, which from the looks of things directly drives the axle shafts, couldn't be driven by the gear coming off the end of the motor (other than it probably not being sized correctly for the desired gearing and not being cut the right way). I also don't see the point of the cog gear, unless it's job is to be engaged by a pawl when the car is in Park (this wasn't evident from the display). Either way, it's a pretty darn simple affair anyway...your car is probably not going to be in the shop for transmission problems anytime soon!
 

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The battery pack cutaway is largely unremarkable other than the part showing individual cells inside the new type casing. Of course I couldn't resist touching the cell pouches, and was maybe a bit surprised to find they didn't have the foil-like consistency I'd imagined.
 

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mwalsh said:
Perhaps those of you with engineering backgrounds can tell me why the one large helical gear, which from the looks of things directly drives the axle shafts, couldn't be driven by the gear coming off the end of the motor (other than it probably not being sized correctly for the desired gearing and not being cut the right way).
Just a guess, but looks like they are getting ~2:1 reduction in the first set. If they did the entire reduction in one step, the drive gear would have to be twice as big (assuming the pinion gear is as small as it can be for the horsepower).
 
Exactly. My dad was a mechanical engineer and once told me - somewhat tongue in cheek - how you select gears... He said, "Always pick them from the middle of the catalog range... Too small and they are fragile and noisy... Too large and they are cumbersome and inefficient..."

TickTock said:
Just a guess, but looks like they are getting ~2:1 reduction in the first set. If they did the entire reduction in one step, the drive gear would have to be twice as big (assuming the pinion gear is as small as it can be for the horsepower).
 
TomT said:
He said, "Always pick them from the middle of the catalog range... Too small and they are fragile and noisy... Too large and they are cumbersome and inefficient..."

That being said, it looks like the Renault [Continental] system has a single reduction gear, judging from the size of that differential and location of bearing bosses (guess?), maybe saves a bit if efficiency especially at higher speeds, where the Fluence's mileage efficiency seems to gain on the Leaf?

Is Tesla S a single reduction gear?

img_20110913_elektromotor_de-data.jpg
 
If efficiency is king, you also go with spur gears rather than bevel gears. Problem is, they are noisy, more fragile, and also must be precisely machined and fitted to eliminate excessive backlash...

donald said:
That being said, it looks like the Renault [Continental] system has a single reduction gear, judging from the size of that differential and location of bearing bosses (guess?), maybe saves a bit if efficiency especially at higher speeds, where the Fluence's mileage efficiency seems to gain on the Leaf?
 
TomT said:
If efficiency is king, you also go with spur gears rather than bevel gears.
Well, the Renault Fluence does have a bit of a characteristic whine. Not intrusive, but noticeable over the Leaf, I think. I doubt if it has straight cut gears - that would surely be too noisy (?) but maybe the gears run a reduced angle on the helical cut? Dunno, just punting a few thoughts.
 
I don't have the shop manual in front of me but it is in there...

mwalsh said:
TomT said:
It has a very standard open mechanical differential like just about every other car in the world.
Where? I don't see anything that resembles a differential. Edit: Unless it's hidden in that one joint on the right side of the reduction gear.
 
It'll be an epicyclic type, with sets of planetaries inside a cage (of which you can see the outer housing with the crown teeth on) rather than a beveled pinion/crown.
 
While we are on the subject, I remember seeing a very nice picture of the 2013 integrated stack with the parts labelled. i haven't been able to find it recently, though I was sure it was somewhere here on this board. I think it may even have used the term "Power Distribution" which we have since become painfully aware of. Can someone come up with a pointer to that?

Ray
 
Here is the drawing of the 2011/2012 differential. It is at the very bottom.

mwalsh said:
TomT said:
I don't have the shop manual in front of me but it is in there...
I don't think the shop manual covers it at all, which is why I'm asking. Perhaps they think they'll never need to replace one? :lol:

spyro4.jpg
 
planet4ever said:
While we are on the subject, I remember seeing a very nice picture of the 2013 integrated stack with the parts labelled. i haven't been able to find it recently, though I was sure it was somewhere here on this board. I think it may even have used the term "Power Distribution" which we have since become painfully aware of. Can someone come up with a pointer to that?

Ray
Hello Ray,
Is this the one you were thinking of?

f51f673fe6341d.gif

I don't remember where I got it, since I have spent the last 2 months researching the LEAF and have read a lot of material, but I think it was a magazine article.
Ty
 
babynuke said:
Hello Ray, Is this the one you were thinking of?
Thanks! It's not exactly the one I was thinking of, but it's even clearer as to what the components do. One thing we have pointed out a number of places is that the PDM, Inverter, and Motor are all water cooled. There is only one external hose connection shown here, but I think it is clear that there are internal channels between the components for coolant flow, and that they are joined with gaskets. That should make it clear to any retrofit dreamers that there is no way to put that 6 kW charger into a 2011-2012 LEAF. (Unless they do a complete engine compartment transplant.)

Ray
 
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