9/17/13: ECOtality files for bankrupcy and gets Nissan loan

johnrhansen said:

I think the charging business model is all wrong. It should be like the wi-fi in Starbucks. It's free for customers (or members), and only available to customers (or members). I think charging stations ought to be a marketing dream come true for the right kind of business. You plug in and are forced to spend time (and hopefully money) at that location. You invest a dollar's worth of electricity, and extract 5 times that in profit from the customer.

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I think that's what _will_ happen, but there just aren't enough EVs out there right now. It would take forever to recoup the cost of a quick charger. It's getting close though. I see a lot of EVs around me in the PNW these days.

Yep, just like wifi, companies started with really expensive gear and asked customers to pay for it. As prices (and competition) came down on equipment, wifi became a loss-leader, getting customers in the door to buy things.

The same will eventually happen to EVSEs too.

DarkStar said:

The same will eventually happen to EVSEs too.

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Except the more people that use EVSE's, the more the cost to the business. Not true for wifi (well, at least it doesn't scale the same way; sure, if you go from 10 people needing wifi to 1000 people needing it, there are more infrastructure costs). So the business model may not grow in the same way.

Seems more likely that it will involve advertising support (i.e. using those gigantic Blink plasma screens), or the subscription model. I know some companies are already doing subscriptions, it'll be interesting to see if they can make a profit.

ITestStuff said:

DarkStar said:

The same will eventually happen to EVSEs too.

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Except the more people that use EVSE's, the more the cost to the business. Not true for wifi (well, at least it doesn't scale the same way; sure, if you go from 10 people needing wifi to 1000 people needing it, there are more infrastructure costs). So the business model may not grow in the same way.

Seems more likely that it will involve advertising support (i.e. using those gigantic Blink plasma screens), or the subscription model. I know some companies are already doing subscriptions, it'll be interesting to see if they can make a profit.

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I bet Starbucks pays $200 a month for Comcast business class internet or similar. That's almost 3000 kWhs in the PNW. Or about 8 quick charges per day. I can see a business not really worrying about something like that if there are a bunch of new customers coming in the door.

pkulak said:

I bet Starbucks pays $200 a month for Comcast business class internet or similar. That's almost 3000 kWhs in the PNW. Or about 8 quick charges per day. I can see a business not really worrying about something like that if there are a bunch of new customers coming in the door.

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If they can get Comcast for this purpose they probably spend less than $100 a month + whatever maintenance contract they have to manage the entire setup.

QueenBee said:

pkulak said:

I bet Starbucks pays $200 a month for Comcast business class internet or similar. That's almost 3000 kWhs in the PNW. Or about 8 quick charges per day. I can see a business not really worrying about something like that if there are a bunch of new customers coming in the door.

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If they can get Comcast for this purpose they probably spend less than $100 a month + whatever maintenance contract they have to manage the entire setup.

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Even assuming it costs $200/mo for business class internet (cost is typically closer to $100/mo for business DSL/cable-modem service), install costs are usually minimal to free. This setup will support dozens of customers concurrently.

Now let's say you want to install 4 L2 stations. Chargepoint stations cost ~$7k for their new dual-plug stations. Installation cost to trench and run electricity can typically cost about $10k. Yeah, so now you're up to ~$25k just for the install. Let's say they have a 20% utilization factor (probably generous) - you might deliver about 50-60 kWh / day or about 1500 kWh/month. At a cheap $0.10/kWh that's $150/mo, but could be 2x that. If you are paying demand charges, you will probably incur about 10-15 kW of demand charges/month - that might cost another $100-400 / mo depending on your utility and demand charges.

The installation cost is the cost of 10 years of internet service and the utility costs are 2-5x more and you will only be able to serve up to 4 customers at a time.

Now try to run the numbers for a couple QC stations - install costs are 4x higher per plug (unless you can get a free charger from Nissan in which case it's pretty reasonable they estimate $13k for a QC station - I'll take two!) and if you have to pay demand charges those could easily be over 5-10x more per month.

It's easy to see why building a viable business is very difficult when coupled with the fact that it seems that too many people too short sighted to see that public charging is going to cost a lot more than home charging just like the cost of a Pepsi or coffee at home costs a fraction of what you pay at a restaurant and yet the restaurant business seems to move quite a few "overpriced" beverages.

johnrhansen said:

I think the charging business model is all wrong. It should be like the wi-fi in Starbucks. It's free for customers (or members), and only available to customers (or members). I think charging stations ought to be a marketing dream come true for the right kind of business. You plug in and are forced to spend time (and hopefully money) at that location. You invest a dollar's worth of electricity, and extract 5 times that in profit from the customer. Instead of retailers letting some third party install and maintain the station, they should install them themselves and only let customers charge there, and do it for free. If I had a retail business, that's what I'd do. If you are stuck somewhere and have to charge... plug in and go spend some money and they will turn the charger on for you.

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Such a network exists. Volta Industries http://www.voltacharging.com/index.html is apparently just getting started, and are based out of Hawaii. I've seen one of their free chargers in Phoenix (Ray and 48th St). I think such chargers are supported by the shopping center.

Randy said:

pchilds said:

Can't wait until all Blink stations are $.49 kWh.

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Hmmm....$1 per hour Level 2 (split with the host site) doesn't collect enough revenue to sustain the business and ECOtality goes bankrupt...New owner pays $3.3M to jump on board...

The new owner HAS to charge more than $1 per hour to recover his investment and allow him provide a viable charging service.

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Or the split can change. 100% to new owner until a break even minimum is reached. Then a sliding scale.

My workplace has a Blink charger installed. The blink cards we were using from work (that work or Blink pays for) stopped working today. But my personal blink card ($1/hr) still works.

Q2 2013 Financial information about the Blink buyer: Car Charging group

http://www.hotstocked.com/article/66392/car-charging-group-inc-otcmkts-ccgi-back-above.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their winning bid was $3.35 million for the Blink assets

• cash: $165 thousand
• current assets: $1.1 million
• current liabilities: $8.9 million
• quarterly revenue: $77 thousand
• quarterly net loss: $5.6 million
• accumulated deficit: $26.8 million

Randy said:

• quarterly revenue: $77 thousand

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Ouch. Can this actually be a sustained business model?

Randy said:

• quarterly net loss: $5.6 million

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No.

Agreed. Details at http://yahoo.brand.edgar-online.com/displayfilinginfo.aspx?FilingID=9469757-7150-158688&type=sect&dcn=0001213900-13-004715" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Randy said:

Q2 2013 Financial information about the Blink buyer: Car Charging group

http://www.hotstocked.com/article/66392/car-charging-group-inc-otcmkts-ccgi-back-above.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Their winning bid was $3.35 million for the Blink assets

• cash: $165 thousand
• current assets: $1.1 million
• current liabilities: $8.9 million
• quarterly revenue: $77 thousand
• quarterly net loss: $5.6 million
• accumulated deficit: $26.8 million

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Ouch. That looks like another company that's on the verge of going bankrupt itself. How are they going to make up a $5.6M quarterly loss by buying the currently money losing Blink network? Through volume?

How are they funding the purchase with no cash on hand?

drees said:

How are they funding the purchase with no cash on hand?

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Obviously on credit or with investor cash. I do wonder if Nissan might be involved. They have a lot of interest in the Blink network (and all the other charging networks) continuing to exist.

davewill said:

drees said:

How are they funding the purchase with no cash on hand?

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Obviously on credit or with investor cash. I do wonder if Nissan might be involved. They have a lot of interest in the Blink network (and all the other charging networks) continuing to exist.

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Other than the bridge loan to keep things going for a few weeks, it doesn't appear that they are involved.

CarCharging Group buys Ecotality assets for $3.4 million at auction

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/10/14/carcharging-group-buys-ecotality-assets-for-3-4-million-at-auct/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Did you get this email regarding the Blink Charger:


Important News About Blink

As you may have heard, Car Charging Group (“CarCharging”) just acquired the Blink Network and all of the Blink related assets. If you aren’t already familiar with CarCharging, we have been in the EV charging business since 2009 and are the owner of the largest independent public EV charging station network.

CarCharging has always been committed to supporting the EV industry and we want to assure you that the Blink charging stations will continue to operate. We will work as quickly as possible to rectify any outstanding issues in order to elevate the Blink stations and network to the highest quality standard.

If you have an urgent maintenance issue (i.e. your charger does not work), please contact the Blink Call Center at (888) 998-2546 and we will do our best to resolve the issue as soon as possible.

We appreciate your support and we look forward to serving you! Charge on!


Michael D. Farkas
Chief Executive Officer
CarCharging



Want to learn more about CarCharging?
Visit http://www.carcharging.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Yeah, I got it Saturday...

myleaf said:

Did you get this email regarding the Blink Charger:

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Does anyone know if the 'new guys' will ever be sending out keyfobs, or whatever you need to use the blink chargers at Walgreen sites? I registered online a month ago, and still have not recieved anything...

Yes, I know they've been in turmoil, but WILL they be getting back to sending stuff out?