NissanNut
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:11 am
Delivery Date: 05 Aug 2014
Leaf Number: 009124
Location: Dallas, Texas
Contact: Website

Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 12:31 pm

I am looking to buy a used Leaf one day. Curious on how the maintenance is on these? I am a hard core DIY guy. I dont believe in taking to dealer. I have owned Nissans exclusively since 1984. Do all my own work. Only owned 1 NEW one. Only thing I dont do is alignments. Well thats not always true for my 92 Pathy.

Currently own:

92 Pathfinder SEV6 highly modified for fun. VG33, Solid axle swap etc..
05 Armada SEV8 Stock family car and tow rig.
04 Quest SEV6 stock Wifes. (bought new)

Since the Quest and Armada are same size (1" different) we want to replace Quest with a Leaf. My Wife never does more than 30 miles a day.

I have never driven one but I have sat in them at Car show.

I wanted to drive the Leaf to work, but I guess it wont make the 70 mile round trip. Its 70mph all the way. I work next to Nissan in Coppel. I see a few Leafs with manufacture plates on occasion.

Any ways I want the oldest Leaf I can find. Preferably with no warranty. I understand the batterys have a 9 year warranty. I dont want to wait that long though.
05 Armada SEV8 - Me
11 Leaf SV - Wife (We share it)
01 Altima GLE - Daughter
95 Hardbody XE - Son

kubel
Posts: 1609
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2012 11:38 am
Leaf Number: 19628
Location: Southeast Michigan

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:40 pm

I would strongly recommend against purchasing a LEAF (new or used) until Nissan releases the price of a replacement battery pack. It's inevitable that you will have to replace the pack at least once, and it's likely to happen out of warranty. As it stands right now, battery packs are not available for sale, even from dealers. This is a major issue for people like you and me who prefer to own cars until the wheels fall off.

Look into the warranty carefully, the 8 year 100,000 mile warranty on the battery only covers defects. The shorter 5 year 60,000 mile warranty covers capacity. An off-lease LEAF will only have 2 years and 15,000 miles of remaining coverage.

With that said, at 24,000 miles, I have invested $0 into maintenance and $0 into repairs on my car. The car has developed a moan on the front end which the dealer has not been able to detect, but it will be covered under warranty when it does break. Battery aside, I expect the car itself to last many years.

30 miles per day is a good fit for the LEAF. If it was your only vehicle, I would recommend the Chevy Volt since 30 miles is the sweet spot for that car.

If you do buy a used LEAF, here's my suggestion: Find one with the worst battery possible. I would get a 2012 over a 2011 (winter package). You want something that will degrade to 70% before its 5 years old, so right before the warranty expires, you take it to the dealer to get a free battery. You can use the Android app "LEAF Spy" to determine the battery capacity before purchase.

Otherwise, consider a lease. They are affordable and the perfect fit for a car like this with an unknown future and lack of major parts availability.
2012 Nissan LEAF SV
20% degradation in 42k miles
Leased 5-17-2012, Returned 1-15-2016


2017 Chevy Volt LT
Siren Red Tintcoat
Leased 10-21-2016

DanCar
Posts: 1029
Joined: Sat Apr 24, 2010 12:00 am
Delivery Date: 10 Mar 2013
Location: SF Bay area, 94043

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 1:55 pm

NissanNut wrote:I am looking to buy a used Leaf one day.
You might be surprised how inexpensive the new ones are on lease deals. Not good for a DIY type of person, but perhaps you could give yourself the luxury of a new car and avoid the depreciation costs on rapidly advancing battery technology.
2013 Leaf SL leased 3/10/2013
https://twitter.com/DanielCardena

NissanNut
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:11 am
Delivery Date: 05 Aug 2014
Leaf Number: 009124
Location: Dallas, Texas
Contact: Website

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 3:58 pm

I would never do a lease. I dont like to finance, dont want the payments. I own all my Nissans 100%. I have grown to love Nissans over the decades of ownership. Like I said I do all my own maintenance and repairs. I dont like to buy cars from new or used dealers either.

The batterys are actually 48 seperate replacable modules, So I can replace one at a time if needed. It would be easier than rebuilding my motor or trans. Only 600lbs to pop out the bottom.

Here is how they make the batterys in TN:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mun1Mct6JEs" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here is the 48 cells:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2rFVk2h8TQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I love the design, all the cells are modules.
05 Armada SEV8 - Me
11 Leaf SV - Wife (We share it)
01 Altima GLE - Daughter
95 Hardbody XE - Son

cwerdna
Posts: 9664
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:07 pm

FWIW, I'm somewhat of a Nissan fan as well and had 2 Nissans before my Leaf.
NissanNut wrote: I wanted to drive the Leaf to work, but I guess it wont make the 70 mile round trip. Its 70mph all the way. I work next to Nissan in Coppel. I see a few Leafs with manufacture plates on occasion.

Any ways I want the oldest Leaf I can find. Preferably with no warranty. I understand the batterys have a 9 year warranty. I dont want to wait that long though.
I think you have some misunderstandings. If you want to do that 70 mile roundtrip at 70 mph all the way and there's no charging at work, forget it. You will have a hard time doing that on a Leaf w/a brand new battery. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. Range chart predicts you'd get 68 miles of range at that speed.

You're in Texas, you don't want to own a Leaf unless somehow you're in a cooler part of TX due to rapid battery degradation due to heat. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... acity_Loss" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=228326" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. The 4 battery capacity bar loser (Blue494) only went 59.3 miles at 62 mph before running out of juice. That I'm pretty sure was Scott Yarosh's at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/index. ... #four_bars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, after only 14 months (?) in Phoenix. Someone please correct me on this, if I'm wrong.

Skip down to the "Here's how bad the range can get with a seriously degraded battery" of http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=101293" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to show that you'll make it ~43 miles @ 70 mph if you lose 4 capacity bars. That's the threshold at which you're eligible for a replacement pack (see below) if within the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty.

The Leaf had no battery capacity warranty at all until http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13192" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, which is only good for 5 years/60K miles. You can read the details there. After that's gone, there is NO price on a replacement pack.

If you want a replacement pack due to degradation, you'd have to get a pack from somewhere or go with this $100/month battery lease/rental program: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=13331" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

It doesn't matter that the packs are modules. In the absence of a defective module or two, they will have all degraded about equally.

TonyWilliams put together this summary at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=9694" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, in case you don't want to read all 658 pages of http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=8802" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

As for "Any ways I want the oldest Leaf I can find. Preferably with no warranty." I wouldn't do that due to calendar battery capacity loss. They start degrading the moment after they're manufactured. And, no warranty means no warranty for when expensive parts fail like the on-board charger. The OBC on some (probably not that many) '11 and '12 Leafs has blown, usually a blown diode and it's IIRC replacing the unit is $1K+, if out of warranty.

Google for stuff like this:
site:mynissanleaf.com obc diode
site:mynissanleaf.com charger blown diode
Last edited by cwerdna on Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

Stoaty
Posts: 4486
Joined: Fri Jun 18, 2010 9:50 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:13 pm

NissanNut wrote:The batterys are actually 48 seperate replacable modules, So I can replace one at a time if needed. It would be easier than rebuilding my motor or trans. Only 600lbs to pop out the bottom.
Yes you could, but it turns out that the cells age pretty evenly so in practice the whole pack has to be replaced. For our best guess about how the battery will age in different climates and with various driving patterns, see Battery Aging Model (link in my sig). There is a spreadsheet where you can enter information to get a good guess about capacity loss, and a public link to the spreadsheet on google docs.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

cwerdna
Posts: 9664
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 4:15 pm

IMHO, one would be almost crazy to own an EV w/o active battery thermal management in hot climates like TX.

FWIW, I don't like leasing or payments either yet I am on 2 year lease for my Leaf. It's my 1st lease ever.

'19 Bolt Premier
'13 Leaf SV w/premium package (owned)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium packages (lease over, car returned)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 5:55 pm

On the maintenance, after owning nothing but petroleum-powered vehicles, you'll be pleasantly surprised about the Leaf's lack of maintenance needs. You will be able to do all of the car's maintenance needs except for one: the yearly battery check. It is required to keep the battery warranty in force. The first two are free, after that you do pay but I understand the cost to be under $100 each.

The rest of the maintenance:
6 months/7500 miles: tire rotation, inspections
1 year/15k miles: above, plus cabin filter replacement
2 years/30k miles: above, plus brake fluid flush
15 years/125k miles: coolant flush
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

DoctorSaul
Posts: 22
Joined: Tue Sep 03, 2013 8:34 pm
Delivery Date: 02 Sep 2013
Leaf Number: 09803
Location: Chesterfield, Missouri

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:44 pm

NissanNut wrote:I would never do a lease. I dont like to finance, dont want the payments. I own all my Nissans 100%.
I leased my Leaf for the battery warranty reasons, and because the $7500 Federal Rebate is deducted immediately from the cost of the lease calculation. Otherwise, you have to wait to file your Federal Income tax return in order to claim the rebate as a tax credit. Note if you don't have at least $7500 in income tax, then you will be giving up some, or all, of the rebate.

Additonally, I don't like payments either. So I prepaid my 2 year lease. Easy to do with Nissan. The lease deals are so compelling (around here, $119 to $138/mo), but keep in mind that most deals will include some upfront money. Most good deals on an SV lease will be a total of about $7200 for the two year period. This $3600 per year is usually offset by the typical gas savings. I'm currently saving somewhere around $350 per month on gasoline, so the basic cost of leasing the Leaf is just about zero. Insurance is an additional cost, but there is basically no maintenance other than checking the tire pressures and checking windshield fluids and battery coolant fluid. The sales taxes where I live are rolled into the lease cost. However, in Missouri, I will be liable for personal property tax on the Leaf beginning next calendar year.

RonDawg
Posts: 3039
Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:46 am
Delivery Date: 11 Jan 2013
Leaf Number: 027089
Location: SoCal

Re: Future Leaf owner.

Thu Nov 28, 2013 10:54 pm

DoctorSaul wrote:Additonally, I don't like payments either. So I prepaid my 2 year lease.
Pre-paying a lease is generally a bad idea. Although a couple of people who wrecked their leased Leafs either got some money back from the insurance proceeds, and/or were able to swap out the collateral for another one of equal or better value, for the most part with NMAC leases you will lose any down payment you put down in case the car is declared a write-off.

For people who have an aversion to making payments, but still wish to lease, you're better off keeping the entire amount in the checking account where the payments would normally be drawn from, rather than handing it all over to NMAC at once.
Blue Ocean 2012 Leaf SV, lost that 1st bar at 34 months/26,435 miles. Lease returned 2 months later. Final LeafStat figures: 225 Gids, 17.44 kWH, SOC 91.89%, SOH 82.36%, 69.49% HX, 54.57 Ahr, battery temp 61.8 F.
Now driving a 2015 VW eGolf SEL.

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