How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

One big difference is the 2013 vs 2011 Leaf. I've got the old energy hog heater, no heated seats, and I've seen some range reduction (haven't lost a bar yet). Last winter I did 65 mi RT (with 3 hr cold soak at the 1/2 way point) at around 20 F, arriving back home below LBW. I blasted the heat for the last 10-15 mi since I had the range estimated correctly. Anything below 10 F is outside my test experience, so I'm hesitant to leave town or exceed 40-50 mi. If I had the new 2013 with cold weather package, it would be another story. Apparently the more efficient heater also improves the pre-heating on L1. Glad it's working out for you guys. I'm still doing fine with my 2011, blasting the 4-5 KW heater on my 8 mi RT commute, so no worries yet here either.

BTW, this graph seems to indicate that 50 mi is attainable at those temps, so yup, you're right:
http://www.greencarreports.com/news...olt-range-loss-in-winter-new-data-from-canada

I use D just to warm the car up, then switch to Eco. I will also set the T-stat to 74 or 73, and use a heated throw, I think. I also drive more slowly. Here's hoping!

14 degrees F today, drove 5 miles and used 10% of my charge.

Today was a high of 4F. I drove 16 miles altogether, using about 50% of my battery. This was spread across 4 trips, with the car cooling off somewhat in between each, and use of the heater while driving (set to 63F). The highest speed was about 55mph. Average was around 40mph. I did have it plugged in at L1 when not driving, charging the battery. The hope was that by charging, I could keep the battery slightly warmer. I have the 2012 with the cold weather package, so heated seats/wheel, but the old 5kW resistance heater.

I don't think I would be comfortable with a 43 mile round trip in my car. Is the 2013 really that much better?

GetOffYourGas said:

Today was a high of 4F. I drove 16 miles altogether, using about 50% of my battery. This was spread across 4 trips, with the car cooling off somewhat in between each, and use of the heater while driving (set to 63F). The highest speed was about 55mph. Average was around 40mph. I did have it plugged in at L1 when not driving, charging the battery. The hope was that by charging, I could keep the battery slightly warmer. I have the 2012 with the cold weather package, so heated seats/wheel, but the old 5kW resistance heater.

I don't think I would be comfortable with a 43 mile round trip in my car. Is the 2013 really that much better?

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Not having experience with earlier leafs, I'm not sure. I left home with 99% charge, because the #@!@ charge timer likes to mess up on Fridays, and charging ended hours before I preheated and left. I started with the heat on 73, but kept lowering it as the car (and I) warmed, ended up at 67. The heated throw helps a lot. I drove at speeds ranging from 30 to 51 (indicated, not actual) MPH. I arrived at work with 54% left. It will be colder on the drive home, but I'm hoping to reduce consumption by starting with the heat on 67F. If it's looking Dicey I'll stop to charge at the dealership for 15 minutes or so. I kept the energy monitor display up, and that ranged from 2.0 M/kwh to about 7.8, usually in the 3.0 range. I didn't reset it before leaving (too cold!) so I can't give an average.

And now, the conclusion of my little Serial, entitled "Can a 2013 Leaf SV manage a 43 mile round trip commute in sub-zero weather? The answer is... "Yes, but."

I drove more slowly on the first leg of the trip home, from 30 to 45MPH. I planned on passing the Nissan dealership's EVSE by if I had more than 28% charge when I reached them. Instead, though, at the last minute I made a small side trip to pick up groceries, and that cost me an extra 1% or so. I had just 26% when I arrived at the dealership, so I stopped for a quick partial charge, and found...a Leaf parked at the EVSE, and plugged in. I pulled in next to it, having noticed that no charge LEDs were lit. I wasn't sure in the poor light what generation it was, so I looked in the driver's window to see if the "EVSE Locked" light was lit. Just darkness inside. So I carefully unplugged it, plugged mine in, and sat inside with the stereo on and the heated throw over me, for about 20 minutes, picking up a hair over 12% more charge. The I plugged the other Leaf back in and left.

For a while I was concerned that I'd be in VLBW territory, so I slowed to 40, then to 35MPH, until I was sure I'd be ok. Then back up to 45 until I reached town. I arrived with 18% charge left. So yes, I could have made it without the extra juice, but I would have done it with only about 6% charge left, so I'm glad I stopped.

The recent cold spell here in Connecticut has made my 77 mi RT commute a bit more of a challenge. My 12 SL has over 18k on it so I am sure that there is some battery degradation even though it is showing 12 bars. I normally charge to 80% but now I have to use 100%. to make it back home with a bar or two remaining. I am able to use L1 at destination and preheat before (both) departures. I have figured that I need a minimum of 4 hours of L1 to make it home at all. Only once did I have to divert to my "alternate" with a L2 hookup that is 8 miles before my house.

Use of heat is limited to seats and wheel but having to use the defroster is the real killer.

Here is my bar consumption profile (750 ft alt change)
To From
Spring - Fall 5 6
Winter 6 8

Still like the LEAF despite the need to plan a bit more

PV2leaf said:

The recent cold spell here in Connecticut has made my 77 mi RT commute a bit more of a challenge. My 12 SL has over 18k on it so I am sure that there is some battery degradation even though it is showing 12 bars. I normally charge to 80% but now I have to use 100%. to make it back home with a bar or two remaining. I am able to use L1 at destination and preheat before (both) departures. I have figured that I need a minimum of 4 hours of L2 to make it home at all. Only once did I have to divert to my "alternate" with a L2 hookup that is 8 miles before my house.

Use of heat is limited to seats and wheel but having to use the defroster is the real killer.

Here is my bar consumption profile (750 ft alt change)
To From
Spring - Fall 5 6
Winter 6 8

Still like the LEAF despite the need to plan a bit more

Click to expand...

My hat/facemask is off to you - I could never drive far without heat, even with the heated seats and wheel. I'd also be worried about being stranded if I had to rely on charging at work. There is actually an L-2 station at a hotel three blocks from work, but despite several map-assisted attempts I have never located it! At least the Nissan dealer I used is right on my way home, about 13 miles from home.

Here in North California, It's like winter ended after the early December cold snap (~12F low on 12/7/13).

Sorry to gloat, but I got 92.9 miles to ~VLB on 12/22/13, and 97.9 miles on 12/29/13 (I parked in the garage the night before to dope my battery!) on my last two runs on my regular low-speed, ~6,000 ft ascent/descent, range/capacity test route.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With near-record temps on this route in the fifties and sixties yesterday, I probably could have made my first 100-miles-in-winter quite easily, but had other plans.

Last night I did the same commute in mostly single digit temps, with a few low teens. I did the 43 miles with plenty of juice left, by economizing the same ways I did the night before. The heated throw is addictive as a legwarmer, even with the heat set to 69 or 70. My energy use has been running somewhere near 3.3, as it dropped to there early in the first commute from 3.4, and hasn't moved since.

The price we pay for driving an E.V. still I won't give it up, I commute from NJ to NY thru the GWB, commuting to and from NY is a Russian roulette, you'll never know how long it will take to get there and home. so far the low temperatures has not affected much, I follow the sane guidelines everyone uses, throw a blanket wrapped around my legs, wear high boots, minimum use of heater, plenty use of seat heater and steering wheel. average miles from and to = (according to google) 19.7 miles each way, 25 to 35 minutes commute
Average daily charge = 86 to 92 miles.
average speed (route 80) 65 to 70 MPH
average usage of miles = 60 to 80 miles.
A round trip at 20 to 30 degree temperatures =
30 to 35 miles to NY, minimum heater
30 to 45 miles to NJ with heater on all the way
average speed (route 4) 45 to 60 MPH

I have pushed Leafy to the point that it shows dashes instead of single digits and warnings of low battery, specially the day they closed 2 lanes in the lower and upper decks of the bridge, it took me 3 hours :shock: to get home. with 0 heater usage after the car registered 29 miles of charge, 15 minutes from home but 2 hours away, temperature in the low 30's.

this coming week I will be driving Leafy at below 20 degrees temperatures and I will report.

Good Luck.

Another less than perfect data report from my significant other....

It was -23F this morning, she charge to (almost) 100%, then preheated for 2 hours.

Battery percentage was 91% when she started driving, ended at 38%.

16.9 miles, 38.6 average MPH, and 2.2 miles per kWh. Started with 2 temperature battery bars and arrived with 3. CC on Auto set at 75.

After the car had sat for 4 hours, I preheated with CarWings the maximum 15 minutes and the percentage was 33%. Preheating and likely the battery heater gobbled up 5%.

Based on this (again) imperfect data, full charge to turtle equals 32 miles.

I'm sure this has been talked about and verified previously, but I can confirm that charging takes 30-40% longer than when it's this cold. The car allowed over 9 hours to charge back up to 100% last night with 4 traction bars, and didn't quite make it. According to CarWings, it had another 40 minutes left to charge.

Minneapolis Leaf owner (2013 SV) here... temps ranged -13F to -17F all day with winds gusting to 30MPH. Here's my data from today:

L2 charger with 100% full charge in my garage
20 minutes of preheating Leaf to 67F
Garage temp +10F degrees
Heater set at 63 degrees.
Typical commute is <35 miles
2/3 miles of highway driving (60 - 65MPH)
1/3 miles of city driving (45 - 55MPH)
65 computed miles showing

Arrived at work with...

Having run defrost for ~5 minutes of the commute
Outdoor temp of -17F
41 computed miles left
15.5 miles actually driven

I didn't plug in.... car sat outside for 6 hours...
No preheat of Leaf prior to leaving work...
After a small errand I arrived at home with...

No defrost needed
Outdoor temp of -13F
8 computed miles showing left.
NOTE: I had turned off cabin heater with ~8 miles to go on my route home.
33.4 actual miles driven

The drive home was really windy and I was driving into a head wind most of the time. Combine that with the cabin heater chewing through 4.5 wH my 41 computed miles I had left when at work plummeted in a hurry. At actual mile 27, with the rate the battery was plummeting, I killed the heat and went with heated seat/wheel. At that point I had 11 miles showing left and about 8 miles to get home and based on what was witnessing I didn't think there was any way I was getting home. Getting myself stranded with -30F to -40F windchills was not something I was interested in.

What I learned... in bitter subzero temps, if you cannot pre heat the car on both ends of the commute (or are not willing to be really cold while driving), I wouldn't try and go much further than 40 miles. Preheating on one end or both helps a bunch.

That agrees with what I concluded. Those 12 volt heated throw blankets are great. I'd definitely recommend one for you!

GRA said:

Found the following site, which explains various factors affecting battery life very clearly:

http://www.mpoweruk.com/life.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Scroll down the Depth of Discharge section for that specifically.

Click to expand...

Interesting article.. I'm not 100% sure we're talking about the same thing though.
Granted shallow DOD cycles will net more total cycles.. ie it's all about total throughput.
But we also know there is degradation at higher cell voltages...
So if there is an issue with deep discharge other than excessive throughput, that would seem to depend on the ending voltage itself...?
There are other publications that show ideal storage voltage for lithium batteries being in the 3.6-3.75V range (which is well below LBW on a Leaf).
Most of what I've heard seems to indicate the "danger zone" for low lithium battery voltages is under 3.0V which is a very difficult number to reach on a Leaf unless you are at or VERY near turtle mode. I would think getting down to 3.5 or 3.6V (ie, 10-20Gids... or a few gids below VLBW) would not be damaging at all. Unless of course you suddenly desire to drive somewhere..

-13 in Chicagoland today. Managed to squeeze out about 45 miles in my 2013 from 100% at normal driving speeds (35-45mph) with climate control set at a nice, toasty 70 degrees. Just about hit VLBW. The car will be outside tonight at potentially -15 for 12 hours @ 90-92% SOC. I'd like to see how the battery warmer zaps the pack during that time...

JohnTomaszewski said:

-13 in Chicagoland today. Managed to squeeze out about 45 miles in my 2013 from 100% at normal driving speeds (35-45mph) with climate control set at a nice, toasty 70 degrees. Just about hit VLBW. The car will be outside tonight at potentially -15 for 12 hours @ 90-92% SOC. I'd like to see how the battery warmer zaps the pack during that time...

Click to expand...

Hmmm.. me to. Do you have any instrumentation (like LeafDD, LeafSpy etc) on it to read actual battery temperature?

GregH said:

JohnTomaszewski said:

-13 in Chicagoland today. Managed to squeeze out about 45 miles in my 2013 from 100% at normal driving speeds (35-45mph) with climate control set at a nice, toasty 70 degrees. Just about hit VLBW. The car will be outside tonight at potentially -15 for 12 hours @ 90-92% SOC. I'd like to see how the battery warmer zaps the pack during that time...

Click to expand...

Hmmm.. me to. Do you have any instrumentation (like LeafDD, LeafSpy etc) on it to read actual battery temperature?

Click to expand...

Nope. Maybe at some point, but not yet... I was at 2 temp bars though (wide range, I know).

Here in higher altitude Colorado, At 0 degrees F our year old LEAFs will do 40-55 miles on a 100% charge if the heater is being used the whole way - and that range assumes 100% to low battery warning, GOM = 3 miles. The variation in range is due to normal circumstances. For example, the LEAF with snow tires gets 10% less range than the LEAF with stock Ecotopias. Speeds over 65 mph, ground snow, and high winds are the main culprits that hurt range. All of these trips assume a lot of hills, with usually a net elevation drop of 1000 feet or more outbound and a similar climb on the return trip.

This is with the heater on the whole way, often with front defrost on which uses more power. Always in Eco mode, and although this isn't technically hypermiling we've gotten to the point where we tend to use a lot of hypermiling techniques in normal driving. Our miles/KwH is about 2.8-3.0 in these conditions in the LEAF with snow tires, 3.0-3.3 in the LEAF with stock tires.

The cars are both garaged, which means their starting temperature is at freezing or slightly above on those days even though the outside temp is around 0. We usually pre-heat for 5 minutes before departing on those days. Of course at the start of the return trip the car will be closer to the outside temperature and not pre-heated.

The 2013 service manual and the 2012 (for type 2 vehicles with battery heater) both say heater turns on at -20C (-4F) and heats to -10C (+14F)