LTLFTcomposite
Well-known member
I have a hard time seeing EV growth sustaining momentum if it becomes apparent they only have a five year life.evnow said:
135 mile range LEAF? Where did this come from?
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DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
kmp647 said:
since i toured the battery plant i am thinking i should be more knowledgeable than i am but not sure that changing capacity is as complicated as you are portraying. the cells arent made in a mold.
i dont remember seeing anything that would require the same size other than the outer casing which would have to be changed likely anyway
it would seem that a BMS change requires a near complete revamping of the SW, hardware, etc. so it is all speculation on my part because the obvious size, weight distribution adds another layer of complexity as well so any change is significant.
a more likely change would be chemical to reduce degradation and increase capacity density with minimal changes to size and weight. But afraid that (unless there is actually truth to one of the dozens of battery breakthru press releases) might not be enough to soothe the uninformed masses
DNAinaGoodWay
Well-known member
LTLFTcomposite said:
You're not looking far enough. Look beyond LEAF.
kmp647
Well-known member
you are right , the pouch type cells are extruded so they can be made in different sizes.
RC type pouch cells are made in all kinds of sizes its def on way to do it and maybe better than adding an additional paralell cell.
its just that then Nissan has either only one cell and therefore pack size eg all cars are now 36kwh
or they have to run to cell mfg machines and make both the current cells and the larger format 49ah cell or whatever.
man I wish we could find out whats really going on at Nissan right now !!!!!!
RC type pouch cells are made in all kinds of sizes its def on way to do it and maybe better than adding an additional paralell cell.
its just that then Nissan has either only one cell and therefore pack size eg all cars are now 36kwh
or they have to run to cell mfg machines and make both the current cells and the larger format 49ah cell or whatever.
man I wish we could find out whats really going on at Nissan right now !!!!!!
DaveinOlyWA
Well-known member
kmp647 said:
you have a lot of miles on your LEAF. did you buy or lease and when do you anticipate making a change?
kmp647
Well-known member
I leased and my lease is up january 2015. I curr have 38k and my lease allows 48,750 miles so I have a bout 10k miles availa for the next 10 mos
I will have to drive the ice a bit this summer or pay some miles at turn in
Right now im watching all the possible cars
VW golf EV
BMW I3 or I3 rex
2nd gen Volt ?
Audi A3 plug in hybrid ?
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV ?
But my hope is a refreshed Leaf with addional range is available by Jan 2015
36kwh ?
more power
better stying
better interior
If not I will be considering all those newcomers, though I would hate to go with a CCS equipped car.
if the refreshed leaf is a no show and I cant stomach one of the other choices I will by a used hybrid , CT200h? or prius and wait to swap it for the next gen Leaf or one of the above choices
I cant see getting another Leaf unless some or most of the above enhancments occur. with added range being the main requirement
I will have to drive the ice a bit this summer or pay some miles at turn in
Right now im watching all the possible cars
VW golf EV
BMW I3 or I3 rex
2nd gen Volt ?
Audi A3 plug in hybrid ?
Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV ?
But my hope is a refreshed Leaf with addional range is available by Jan 2015
36kwh ?
more power
better stying
better interior
If not I will be considering all those newcomers, though I would hate to go with a CCS equipped car.
if the refreshed leaf is a no show and I cant stomach one of the other choices I will by a used hybrid , CT200h? or prius and wait to swap it for the next gen Leaf or one of the above choices
I cant see getting another Leaf unless some or most of the above enhancments occur. with added range being the main requirement
GregH
Well-known member
Moving from 2S2P to 2S3P would require no hardware changes.. same BMS and same charger would be fine. Maybe slightly bigger harness and very minor tweaks to the software (like that cap on 284 Gids!!) otherwise it's just a matter of packaging. Personally (as I've stated elsewhere) I'd be fine with a tad less headroom on the front seats, a tad higher rear floor and maybe retaking some of the space vacated when the 3.3kW OBC moved to 6.3 up front since obviously 24 2S3P modules would be wider than the car (with regard to the rear stack)...
kmp647
Well-known member
Greg you are correct! No hardware change because the parallel cells are not monitors or balanced separately.
Wonder how they will make the change?
I just hope they do it by the 2015 model. I think Nissan must know they need longer range to capture more sales.
Wonder how they will make the change?
I just hope they do it by the 2015 model. I think Nissan must know they need longer range to capture more sales.
evnow
Well-known member
Look around - most of the "growth" is coming from leased cars.LTLFTcomposite said:
DanCar
Well-known member
In the future it will be easy to replace the battery in an EV. At least easier than replacing an engine in an ICE car. It will also be easier to hot rod electric vehicles in +5 years. I see used electric cars will have a strong enthusiast backing.LTLFTcomposite said:
GRA
Well-known member
Not if no one wants all the cars coming off lease, which is almost certainly the current situation. The iMiEV at 62 miles EPA is too short ranged for many people when new; how many people will value a used LEAF that starts with a range of 40 miles or less under ideal conditions?jelloslug said:
evnow
Well-known member
I guess you have nothing to back your claim ?GRA said:
Basically it is a Nissan problem if they can't sell the vehicles coming off lease - they will find a way.
pkulak
Well-known member
evnow said:
Exactly. It's not like they will cease to exist. If their value tanks, it just means that a bunch of people will score 40-mile EVs for 4 digits. If you work and live in the same city, even 40 miles is fine. And if they really tank in value that much, Nissan will probably just pop new batteries in them so they can sell them for 20 grand+.
JeremyW
Well-known member
Know of any high schooler that has to drive 20 miles each way to school? Moms would be delighted to know their kid couldn't go too far, or at least if they wanted to go the distance, they wouldn't be doing so very fast!GRA said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
GregH said:
Of course, there are google maps out there showing all the Tesla 70 amp EVSE's (usually requires Roadster adaptor to J1772), and Sun Country went coast to coast in Canada with 70 amp units.
But, every RV park with "50 amp RV service is a 40 amp continuous capable plug-in spot.
The added bonus is that they are also 240 volts instead of 208 volts.
Berlino
Well-known member
TonyWilliams said:
Not based on personal experience, but there are reports of campground NEMA 10-50 outlets often being in poor shape.
If you try to get the full 40A continuous from them overnight, you may wake up to find that the circuit-breaker has cut off the charge. Or, there's no circuit-breaker, but a fuse has blown and it takes forever to get it replaced.
dhanson865
Well-known member
Berlino said:
The Tesla charger is smart enough with the current firmware to reduce the charge speed if a voltage drop is detected. This is usually enough to prevent the breaker trip / fuse blow scenario so you wake up with a charged vehicle even if it isn't at the full rate.
Shouldn't we expect similar firmware/charger code to do the same when the next gen Leaf comes out?
Assuming so you can have a higher KW charger and let the charger/evse combo worry about how safe the circuit is.
7.2KW charger is 33A on that supposedly 40a circuit at the RV Park and shouldn't even need to kick in a lower charge level but could drop down to 27A if a problem is detected and pretend it is a 6.6KW charger.
9.6KW charger is well over the 40a limit but it could start at 40a and drop to a lower charging rate if a problem is detected.
Oh and if you have the option to manually dial down the amps before charging starts you can plug into the 14-50 and decide how safe you want to play it. If you know 25a will charge you before you need to leave you can be ultra conservative. If you know you need to leave asap you can let the firmware start high and hope it will pull back before the breaker/fuse have to do their thing.
GRA
Well-known member
Nope. Are you suggesting that even-shorter-ranged used BEVs will be in demand in rural areas, as opposed to the new ones which are almost entirely restricted to urban areas because of their limited radius?JeremyW said:
Numerous studies have shown that the millenials aren't terribly interested in driving, they're far more interested in having a good Wi-Fi connection, which is causing panic in the auto companies; autonomous cars are the only safe answer to that, barring a sea change in Millenial attitudes that causes them to want to put their smart phones and iPads down and pay attention to driving [here's a fairly recent articel discussing why - http://www.fastcoexist.com/3027876/millennials-dont-care-about-owning-cars-and-car-makers-cant-figure-out-why" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ]. Also, given that any parents in the household probably work, cars are no longer so valuable to teens as rolling motel rooms either, as there's usually a couple of hour window between when school lets out and parents return home. :lol:JeremyW said:
GRA
Well-known member
40 miles under ideal conditions can mean well under 20 in worst case conditions. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see a large market for cars whose utility is even more limited by range than the new ones are, no matter their price. Is there really a significant market for what are essentially NHTSA standards-compatible NEVs? I doubt it. If Nissan could just 'pop new batteries in them' and make a decent return, they could also provide a price for those same new batteries to their current customers that wouldn't give them apoplexy.pkulak said:
