Quick Charge L3 in LA, San Bernardino, Riverside Counties

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Valdemar said:
There are a couple of other LADWP DCQC chargers listed on PlugShare that are not for public use. One in Van Nuys and another in Sun Valley. I thought all LADWP installs were supposed to be public. No?
Some of the installations are not intended for the public, but unfortunately LADWP seems to have no written policy and has done precious little to publicize their plans. There is also a third DWP installation completed on N. Main St. near downtown which is only fleet accessible. They are starting design for one at the 110 and 5 Freeway crossing, and sites at USC and LAX are in process, the latter three intended to be available for public use.

Update on the UCLA site: the DC Quick Charge unit installed there by LADWP is publicly accessible...BUT only by paid permit parking at a flat rate of $12 to enter the facility where it's located (Parking Structure 4 just off Sunset Blvd. at Westwood Plaza). Furthermore, the facility is unstaffed after noon on Fridays, at 1pm Saturdays and closed Sundays - all other days after 5pm. Since there is no automated vending of parking permits, the general public has no access at those times.

Way to go, acadummies! Could you have sited it in a worse, less friendly location?
 
Recently on a trip to Sacramento State (CSUS) I did the pre planning to discover whether or not EVSE were available while we toured my alma mater and the school my eldest will attend in the fall. Turns out we all got up late and took our big Ford Flex gasser instead. But when I got there I was glad we had as the only evse I found on the tour was in a faculty only lot that my car couldn't have reached without campus security help.

Even though this is somewhat off topic... I bring it up here to inform you about the payment system the campus uses for paying parking via smartphone. It is called PayByPhone. The really cool thing is that once set up (and you know the zone number of your favorite lots) you can park... walk away and pay on your way to where you are going. It will text you to remind you that it is running out of time etc.

Sac State is also using it for billing time on their chargers. You pay for your parking and your EVSE access. This kind of smartphone app seems ideal for this app. With the right hardware hooked up to access gates it could allow secured access to chargers of all kinds... avoiding some of the vandalism and such that plagues anything installed in the public domain.
 
GregH said:
There are two on Sand Canyon in Irvine.. one by Irvine Blvd and the other off the 405.
Yes, but if you are venturing to San Diego in a LEAF, an 80% QC at either of these just barely gets you to Carlsbad where the next QC is (just over 50 miles). And leaves you a bit short if you don't have a fresh battery in your LEAF unless you are comfortable getting in below VLBW.

You pretty much have to stop at SJC to get into the middle of San Diego county. A QC station located half way between SJC and Irvine would fill in that gap.

My biggest worries when taking a trip where I need charging on the way are:

1. Coming across a station that is non-operable leaving one stranded at best at a nearby L2 station until one can get enough charge to get to the next QC - or worse - completely stranded.
2. Coming across a station that is busy (usually not too bad with a QC if everyone is behaving).
 
Universal City Nissan's Quick Charger has now been added to the ChargePoint network (as of April 3rd), whose logo is now prominently displayed. The fob reader has been replaced by a ChargePoint device reader sporting Visa, MasterCard, Discover and AmEx logos, which led me to believe the QC would only operate on a pay-per-use basis.

But it approved my ChargePoint card when I swiped it, which surprised me because I don't have any credit cards tied to, or credit in, my ChargePoint account - it is restricted to permit access to free charging stations only. I have no idea whether free charging will continue long-term, or if I was just enjoying a limited grace period.

A bonus (or demerit, depending on your point of view) is that the charging session no longer tops out at 80%. I charged to 90% before ending my session, but it appeared it would have continued if I wanted to reach 100%. I assume that is standard for the ChargePoint network.
 
timhebb said:
Universal City Nissan's Quick Charger has now been added to the ChargePoint network (as of April 3rd)
Make sure you report your experience on plugshare! http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/1422" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Public QC is now up in Woodland Hills, NRG network. Also 1 L2 charger.

5700 Canoga Ave
Woodland Hills, CA 91367

Next to CoffeBean, BajaFresh, The Stand.

Paid parking, but restaurants above validate.

Limus
 
Last weekend we were happy to find that the 7 Eleven (Blink) QC in San Bernardino, just off the 10 freeway on Waterman Ave., has been back up.

However, it seems to be a trend that many QC units are set to shut off after reaching "80%" or "90%", numbers that continue to be inflated due to a LEAF software bug.

In our case, at the 7 Eleven, the QC shut off after no more than half an hour, at what the Blink machine reported as "90%". This translated to about 66% in gids on our degraded battery, or less than our car's 80% which now occurs at 67.6% in gids. As a result, we still did not have enough charge to get home safely and ended up making another stop to use the Blink L2 at the Redlands Walmart, at 3.3 kW since our LEAF is a 2011.

More and more, our LEAF is turning into a local-only car. With QCs not always reliable, incomplete charges, and yet another charging network that we'll have to join, we are finding ourselves taking the Prius more often. All of this continues to make me appreciate the overall approach that Tesla is taking, offering only vehicles with plenty of range, and making SuperCharging "free". The LEAF has a place in the market, but it's really best for local use only. The dream of regional mobility based on CHAdeMO quick charging has materialized to some degree, but it's not (yet?) what I'd hoped it would be.

On one hand, a QC right at the base of our mountain, in Highland, CA where CA-330 leaves the "flatlands", could make a huge difference to us personally. On the other hand, for a QC site to be relied on by anyone resembling the general public, it should possess multiple chargers, be available 24/7, and be priced no more than gasoline for a Prius. Basically, it needs to resemble a gas station (or SuperCharger site). I have to admit that it took me a while to come to appreciate the need for this approach. Of course, such an approach necessitates substantial subsidies from interested parties (car makers and/or government) and would be helped by lowering/eliminating electric demand charges for EVs.
 
+1!

Yep, that is why I consider single QCs to be worthless for any trip that is even remotely mission critical...

abasile said:
On the other hand, for a QC site to be relied on by anyone resembling the general public, it should possess multiple chargers, be available 24/7, and be priced no more than gasoline for a Prius.
 
abasile said:
However, it seems to be a trend that many QC units are set to shut off after reaching "80%" or "90%", numbers that continue to be inflated due to a LEAF software bug.
On the Blink, did you override the charge to stop at 100%? Do you have last year's P3227 update? Someone said that they noticed the car would continue to charge past 80% after the P3227 even after starting below 50%.

abasile said:
On the other hand, for a QC site to be relied on by anyone resembling the general public, it should possess multiple chargers, be available 24/7, and be priced no more than gasoline for a Prius. Basically, it needs to resemble a gas station (or SuperCharger site). I have to admit that it took me a while to come to appreciate the need for this approach.
Definitely. Tesla made the right call by installing more plugs per location as it improves efficiency of the stations as a whole while minimizing risk of a user being stranded or finding all stations busy. As a software engineer, you would probably enjoy this thread: Capacity of Charging Stations Using an Erlang-B Model

abasile said:
Of course, such an approach necessitates substantial subsidies from interested parties (car makers and/or government) and would be helped by lowering/eliminating electric demand charges for EVs.
Yes, something to help mitigate demand charges for EV charging would help a lot. But still, smarter charging infrastructure would also go a long ways towards minimizing those charges. Again, one just has to look at Tesla for a model.

Let's just look at the QC station around the I10/I215 interchange that you are near. There are 3 different QCs within 7 miles. All have suffered from various states of unavailability over the last 3 months while ringing up 50 kW of demand charges every single month they have been running.

Instead of scattering those stations around, wouldn't it be better to have all 3 stations at the same spot near the I10 / I215 interchange? Install a communications module that limits the maximum total demand for all three stations combined to 60 kW. If the comms module fails, just limit each to 20 kW by default so none are dependent on the other to function. As further backup and to assist non-QC vehicles, install 2 CT4000 J1772 stations.

Install these every 20-40 miles along major thorough fairs like the I10/I215 interchange. Now you minimize the cost of charging infrastructure cost to provide reliable regional mobility. To fill in the holes, add J1772 stations, but always install at least 2 and preferably 4 plugs per location. All stations should ideally be located near restaurants and/or shopping and/or parks to help pass the time if needed, be located away from prime parking and have parking time limits - 45 minutes for QC spots, 4 hours for L2 spots with perhaps provisions for overnight parking if desirable. Finally, all spots should be able to reach multiple parking spots to minimize the effect of being ICEd or other inconsiderate plug-in drivers who hog spots.

Oh well, one can dream.

TomT said:
Yep, that is why I consider single QCs to be worthless for any trip that is even remotely mission critical...
So you're saying that you can't rely on QCs at all? I think there's basically only a few locations in all of the USA where there's more than one CHAdeMO station per location.
 
Yes, my LEAF had the P3227 update last year, and I explicitly selected "100%" on the Blink unit.

Thanks for pointing out that Capacity of Charging Stations Using an Erlang-B Model thread! I'd been away from the forums, and am glad you highlighted that gem.

I absolutely agree that areas like the 10/215 interchange would be better served by co-locating QCs. Great suggestion!! The only downside of co-locating QCs is that the user is more likely to have to detour to use one. For instance, I often prefer Fontana Nissan's location along the 210 freeway. On the other hand, I'd be more than happy to detour a few miles in exchange for reliability and availability.

Another consideration pertinent to the 10/215/210 area is that QC sites need to be in good neighborhoods. Late at night, we don't like using QCs at San Bernardino 7 Eleven stores because they often seem to draw sketchy characters. It's one thing to fill a gas tank in 3-5 minutes and quickly exit the area, quite another to hang around for 30+ minutes waiting for a charge. Somewhere around downtown Redlands would be more ideal, even if less geographically optimal.
 
I'm saying that if a single QC station in range is the only link between me and being stranded without enough charge, then no, I will not rely on it. I will plan alternate arrangements or take the ICE...
After more than 3 years and 48,000 miles, I am past the "adventure" stage...

drees said:
So you're saying that you can't rely on QCs at all? I think there's basically only a few locations in all of the USA where there's more than one CHAdeMO station per location.
 
drees said:
Definitely. Tesla made the right call by installing more plugs per location as it improves efficiency of the stations as a whole while minimizing risk of a user being stranded or finding all stations busy.

He-he...

LASC.png
 
Valdemar said:
I'm skeptical of the long term prospects for Tesla's supercharger network. We've seen free charging be overloaded, broken, and not repaired quickly. Tesla's network isn't free; drivers prepay thousands of dollars for access. But once that money is in Tesla's bank there's no incentive from their customer base to keep ample charging freely available. There is pressure to maintain their reputation to win new customers, but that could be viewed as much a PR issue as a maintenance and construction issue.

For reliable access to charging pay per minute is best. Pay per kWh is worse. Pay per session or per hour is worse. Pay per month is even worse. Pay per lifetime is worse still. Free is worst.
 
I disagree. I believe that Tesla has a very strong motivation to keep them all working and to grow the network. It's Nissan that is lacking motivation it would seem...

walterbays said:
I'm skeptical of the long term prospects for Tesla's supercharger network.
 
Considering that Tesla's Hawthorne (Los Angeles) SuperCharger site is the busiest of all, that it's inside an urban area and thus gets used by locals, and that it wasn't built out as aggressively as some other sites, I don't find it surprising that some drivers have to wait. I don't think Tesla would have even put a SuperCharger there if it weren't for the presence of their design center and SpaceX. The typical SC site is in a less dense area, serves the purpose of connecting urban centers, and does so quite well.

As long as Tesla sales are strong, I expect they'll continue adding more sites and more charging bays; it's a marketing expense. Also, I believe with critical mass we will eventually see third parties installing SuperChargers and charging for their use. For now, I think Tesla well understands that a subsidized, "free" network of SuperChargers is the best way to get off the ground and gain consumer acceptance. Tesla's network will probably stay free for the long term, but won't necessarily be the most convenient or available option unless you're out on a lonely Interstate. I wouldn't drive out of my way and wait for an extra hour to use a free Tesla SC if there's an available, reasonably-priced, third party SC right along my route.

Back to the LEAF and Nissan, I admit that I was among those who felt that installing CHAdeMO units at Nissan dealers was a great move. I was wrong. It's better than nothing, but all we really have now is a patchwork of one-off charging sites with limited hours, uncertain reliability, non-uniform policies/networks, salespeople who look at you funny, and cars that need to be moved out of the way. In fairness, I've been very pleased with Fontana Nissan's hospitality, and reasonably pleased with Metro Nissan in Redlands. Still, they don't offer anywhere near the reliability and availability of a SuperCharger site, nor should I expect them to. Their main business is selling cars and servicing ICE vehicles; EV charging is more of a sideshow, and with demand charges, a costly one.

Clearly, Tesla's vision has proven much clearer than mine or Nissan's. At this point, I think Nissan would do best to set up dedicated, multi-stall, 24/7 QC sites at some key locations in SoCal. Or just sort of ignore the whole CHAdeMO thing and market the LEAF as simply a local-only car.
 
Valdemar said:
drees said:
Definitely. Tesla made the right call by installing more plugs per location as it improves efficiency of the stations as a whole while minimizing risk of a user being stranded or finding all stations busy.
He-he...

LASC.png
Yeah, they obviously need more stations there. It's the busiest in the world, only has 6 stalls pushing 58 MWh/month. Just two more stalls would cut your odds of finding them all busy in half. They need about 10 stalls there to nearly eliminate having to wait or to add a couple more SuperCharger locations to the area. Hawthorne isn't the only location that needs more stations, but it's definitely the worst off right now.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/23540-Capacity-of-Superchargers-Using-an-Erlang-B-Model?p=635959&viewfull=1#post635959" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

When San Juan Capistrano opens up (should be done very soon now) that should take a good amount of pressure off Hawthorne. Looks like they have another one in Los Angeles that they will be opening soon, too.

walterbays said:
There is pressure to maintain their reputation to win new customers, but that could be viewed as much a PR issue as a maintenance and construction issue.
I too am skeptical of an "all you can eat" program like this, but Tesla has always viewed the SuperChargers as a marketing expense. Why else would they build a SuperCharger network across the country so early in the game?

Most of those stations are very, very rarely used at this point in the game. It will be years and years before most of those are utilized anywhere near the extent that the ones near populated areas are.

abasile said:
Still, they don't offer anywhere near the reliability and availability of a SuperCharger site, nor should I expect them to. Their main business is selling cars and servicing ICE vehicles; EV charging is more of a sideshow, and with demand charges, a costly one.
If you're going to go through the trouble of installing a QC, IMO you probably should be making best efforts to keep them available. I still think most of the issue comes from people simply not understanding that while a single QC can be useful, it is very difficult to rely on when you demand 99% uptime.

A single station simply can't provide the level of reliability. And it seems that the only company installing public charging stations who understands that is Tesla.

Blink? No - half-assed dual-plug QC is lucky to have one plug that works. At least they usually have 2-3 L2 plugs, but with one typically in a handicap spot that cuts down on availability significantly.
AeroVironment? No - They only installed a single QC + L2 at every location in the north west.
eVgo? No - Like AV, they only install a single QC + L2 at every location.
Nissan? No - Single QC and perhaps a couple L2 stations. Restricted hours. Inconsistent dealer policies.
ChargePoint? Only recently came out with a dual-head charging station. Not really their fault, they rely on hosts to pay for their overpriced equipment.

Nearly everyone has backup charging at home in the form of a L1 EVSE. And I bet a lot of you upgraded that L1 EVSE so that you can charge at L2 rates when needed.

It seems like everyone is simply aiming to provide the bare minimum and not willing to step up and install some infrastructure that can be relied upon. Until that happens, EVs will never go mainstream.

When you go to a gas station, typically there's 4-10 independent pumps. if that fails, there's usually another station across the street or down the block. That's the type of redundancy and availability that charging stations ultimately need.
 
At eleven days shy of 3 years and 60 miles short of 71k, I am not past the adventure stage.

TomT said:
I'm saying that if a single QC station in range is the only link between me and being stranded without enough charge, then no, I will not rely on it. I will plan alternate arrangements or take the ICE...
After more than 3 years and 48,000 miles, I am past the "adventure" stage...
 
PlugShare reports eVgo in Tarzana is up. I've signed up for their monthly plan, they do send you DCQC outage notification e-mails which is nice. There is no filtering though, so I get notified about outages in Carlsbad which is not that useful. Hopefully there will be a way to better control the notifications in the future.
 
Valdemar said:
PlugShare reports eVgo in Tarzana is up. I've signed up for their monthly plan, they do send you DCQC outage notification e-mails which is nice. There is no filtering though, so I get notified about outages in Carlsbad which is not that useful. Hopefully there will be a way to better control the notifications in the future.
Unfortunately even though that message just went out, PlugShare comments say it went out 2 days ago.

What eVgo should really do is comment on PlugShare when it's down, comment when they have an ETA for fixing it, and comment again when they've repaired it.

While these Nissan DCQCs appear to be marginally more reliable than Blinks, they still seem to go down quite often. Just another argument for installing multiple QCs per location. The Nissan QCs sure don't seem to like the heat, they've been dropping like flies the last week.

After they reported the Carlsbad QC down, they also reported the West Covina Nissan and Los Cerritos Nissan QC stations as down, too.

BTW, anyone been to the West Covina Nissan to charge? No reports on PlugShare...
 
Valdemar said:
PlugShare reports eVgo in Tarzana is up. I've signed up for their monthly plan, they do send you DCQC outage notification e-mails which is nice. There is no filtering though, so I get notified about outages in Carlsbad which is not that useful. Hopefully there will be a way to better control the notifications in the future.
Thanks for pointing out these notices! They were being filtered into my "advertising" folder which I rarely examine, and now I set a filter to flag them for my attention. Gmail lets you do this and I expect that many other mail services provide similar capabilities so you may want to look into that rather than wait for eVgo. Later I may refine my filter to only call my attention to outages in my area by matching the station names.

Now I'm waiting to see whether they also send station-back-up notices, which I haven't seen. I'm guessing they just haven't turned those on yet, and it's not that one by one all the eVgo stations are going down and not being repaired. That could only be the case if eVgo were acquired by Blink, right? :)
 
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