Stoaty
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Leaf Number: 3871
Location: West Los Angeles

Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:38 pm

P71VIC wrote:I don't care. I just don't care. I don't want to care about a sales man and what he makes or doesn't make. I care only about the car that I am either evaluating or after decision has been reached, purchasing.
  • When I am trying to find out information about a car I want to be able to do this in a way that I trust and on my own terms.
    When I am ready to hands on evaluate a car, I want to be able to do this quickly, conveniently and at my own pace.
    When I am ready to buy a car I need the process of trading money for vehicle to be easy, transparent, trouble free, and then have the car delivered quickly.
Never in this process do I want to think about the mechanics of the transaction, worrying if I have played the game right or wrong.
That is probably what most car buyers would say. Buying my Leaf 3 years ago was nearly ideal. Decided I wanted to buy the car after a short test drive at a Nissan event in Santa Monica. Got a quote from Fontana Nissan, accepted it. Went to the dealer, did the paper work, paid for the car and drove home. First time I have ever had a pleasant car buying experience. If Nissan gets their act together and comes out with Leaf 2.0 with 125-150 EPA miles and a Lizard-like battery, I will be back at Fontana Nissan in a few more years. Otherwise, it will be the next generation Tesla.
2011 Leaf with 62,000 miles given to Nephew
2013 Tesla Model S85 with 251 miles rated range at full charge
Leaf Spy Manual
Battery Aging Model Spreadsheet

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jlv
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Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:49 am

Stoaty wrote:Went to the dealer, did the paper work, paid for the car and drove home. First time I have ever had a pleasant car buying experience. If Nissan gets their act together and comes out with Leaf 2.0 with 125-150 EPA miles and a Lizard-like battery, I will be back at Fontana Nissan in a few more years. Otherwise, it will be the next generation Tesla.
+1
LEAF '13 SL+Prem (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18) 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%
Tesla S 75D (3/17)
Tesla X 100D (12/18)
85K 100% BEV miles since '14
ICE free since '18

philipscoggins
Posts: 372
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2012 9:16 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Nov 2012
Leaf Number: 022745
Location: Tullahoma, TN

Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Wed Jun 25, 2014 12:48 pm

Stoaty wrote:Went to the dealer, did the paper work, paid for the car and drove home. First time I have ever had a pleasant car buying experience. If Nissan gets their act together and comes out with Leaf 2.0 with 125-150 EPA miles and a Lizard-like battery, I will be back at Fontana Nissan in a few more years. Otherwise, it will be the next generation Tesla.
Arisha @ Downtown Nashville Nissan (no longer works there) made my LEAF purchase as painless as possible. I walked in with a bank check of an agreed upon price and was ready to go. The one hangup was that I purchased after 5pm on a Friday, so there was only one of the people there who take care of the money/financing/whatever and 2 couples right before me got hung up at that point of their purchase. But she helped me entertain my 2 small children while we waited and was a genuinely "good hang" for the hour and a half the back side took.

I was happy to give her a 10 at every point on the survey and I'll have to say, hands down, it was the best car purchase experience I've ever had. (Oh & when I originally called offering my Low Ball price, they responded with "We can beat that by $50"?!?!? Amazing people.
2012 Black SL, 104,100, 4y 3m, 175 gids ~ 33% capacity loss - Lost 1st bar @ 44,800 miles & 20 months of driving - 2nd @ 62,000 miles 2y6m - 3rd @ 80,000 3y6m - 4th @ 104,074 4y3m. Member of the 100 mile & 200km club

dgalvan
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2014 8:46 am
Delivery Date: 25 Apr 2014
Location: Woodland Hills, CA (Los Angeles)

Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:01 pm

Thanks for posting all that! Great insight on the specifics of Leaf sales compared to selling other cars, and the ridiculousness of the top-heavy customer surveys.

If anyone else here liked that insight, I'll also recommend that you to This American Life's radio program showcasing the pressures car salesmen face in general to hit a certain number of cars sold. Was glad I listened to it before starting the car buying process. Helped to humanize the sales folks for me.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-a ... 3/129-cars" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I had a great experience with my salesman (Michael Skierka at Nissan of Van Nuys) when I purchased my Leaf, and I did indeed give him all 10's on the survey. After reading the original post here I am glad I did, and this post motivated me to go ahead and write a positive Yelp review for Nissan of Van Nuys as well. (Not sure if the latter helps at all, but it's something.)
2014 Leaf S with Charger Package (Blue Ocean)
Purchased 4/25/2014, Totaled (hit from behind on freeway) 9/20/2016

2016 Leaf SV (Glacier White)
Purchased 9/30/2016

GRA
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Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Wed Jun 25, 2014 1:25 pm

P71VIC wrote:This isn't going to sound polite, but I don't mean it that way to the individual who posted this. I just have a strong opinion about the car buying process from the consumer point of view. Thank you for your write up, it was interesting.


I don't care. I just don't care. I don't want to care about a sales man and what he makes or doesn't make. I care only about the car that I am either evaluating or after decision has been reached, purchasing.
  • When I am trying to find out information about a car I want to be able to do this in a way that I trust and on my own terms.
    When I am ready to hands on evaluate a car, I want to be able to do this quickly, conveniently and at my own pace.
    When I am ready to buy a car I need the process of trading money for vehicle to be easy, transparent, trouble free, and then have the car delivered quickly.
Never in this process do I want to think about the mechanics of the transaction, worrying if I have played the game right or wrong.

This is what is so fundamentally broken with the automotive dealer system in this country. It fails in nearly all of these ways.

I have had two extremely negative experiences at dealers.
#1 at a Chevy dealer, where they wouldn't let me test drive a sports car, because I was a young man I guess, type cast as someone who couldn't afford such as car and only wanted a joy ride. I bought a sports car from another manufacture in the same price range two weeks later.
#2 at a VW dealer. I told them I wanted a particular model, with particular options and that I was willing to pay appropriate for it. Dealer said "great Mr. P71, I have one exactly like that on a boat right now inbound for the dealer. It is due here in about 10 days. I'll give you a call." I ask if they want a deposit, they say no. 11 days later, no call and they sold the car out from under me. I bought a car from another manufacture in the same price range two weeks later.

Both of these times, incompetent independent dealers soured me from a whole brand. This whole terrible brand tarnishing system is what Tesla is trying to up end and I applaud them for it. They meet almost all of my requirements above, except delivering quickly after ordering with their whole reservation system.

I have been able to buy computers configured the way I want them and delivered shortly there after with no sales man involved for over 15 years now. Why can't I do this for a car?

So Mr. Sales man, I'm sorry, but I just don't care. Get out of my way and let me buy a car. Your employer hired you to preform a role in a sales process that is broken, and as car buyer I just don't care and don't want the transaction to work the way it does at all. You profession has been deprecated, at least for me, and other customers like me.
+1x10^6

I think the simplest and easiest fix is to eliminate the commission sales model. Tesla got this right. I was fortunate that selling AE wasn't my sole or sometimes even my primary source of income, so I wasn't dependent on it and thus never had a conflict of interest with a customer. A commission-based sales model, especially one with quotas, has an inherent conflict of interest unless the salesperson has another source of income like I did. Again, it's the difference between customer service, and sales. I want to deal with a customer service person and _not_ a salesperson, whose job is to sell me things I neither need or want, for their and their company's benefit rather than mine.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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DNAinaGoodWay
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Leaf Number: 23156
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Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Wed Jun 25, 2014 5:09 pm

My LEAF salesman didn't have to work very hard. I did all my research here, and knew what I wanted. He earned the business when he replied to my first email. Eleven other dealers either ignored me, came back with an amazingly high counter offer, or responded with "call me", or "come see me". Jim McCall at Marlboro Nissan responded with a firm, lowball counter offer, and the deal was done. Sale closed. I gave him solid tens on the survey and he deserved it. If he and the dealership make good money, and I get a good deal without crazy games, that's a workable model.

But it only works with people like those on this forum. People who study and research and are willing to re-think what driving means. And with salesman like Jim who don't waste time or energy in negotiating.

Having your income depend in part on the survey answers of an uninformed general public is nuts. If Nissan doesn't make allowances for that, they're only hurting themselves. Most people are too used to the convenience of gas cars.

CT is offering awards to dealerships that sell EVs. It's not clear if the awards are monetary, but policies like that might help salesman make the transition.
'12 SL last reading @ 2 yr, 22k, 260 GIDs, 62.35 Ahr

'15 SV w/QC, Mfd 5/14, Leased 8/14, 292 GIDs, 64.38 Ahr when new
@ 36 months, 34k, 270 GID, 57.49 Ahr

'17 Bolt LT



6.72 kW Array

gaswalla
Posts: 154
Joined: Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:07 pm
Delivery Date: 24 Jun 2011
Leaf Number: 5012
Location: Coastal San Diego

Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:26 pm

I bought from Mossy in San Diego: I did not give a perfect score on my survey, and I now I feel even better for doing so.
Tesla has got the whole car buying experience and owner support perfected. Looking forward to the end of dealers and salesmen. Still do wish well to the nice OP, though.

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LTLFTcomposite
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Leaf Number: 5926
Location: Central FL

Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Wed Jun 25, 2014 6:42 pm

Pretty sure the problem for dealers isn't the LEAF itself, it's the type of person it attracts. The same type you don't want to seat on a jury.
LTL
White 2012 SV delivered 10 Dec 2011 returned 25 Nov 2014 replaced with stopgap ICE Sentra
[35 months] [35K miles] [9 Bars]
2013 Volt replaced after 36 months/30k miles with ICE Rogue
2016 SV-adjacent May 2016 lost 4th bar March 2018

Pipcecil
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Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Thu Jun 26, 2014 6:49 am

As an interesting perspective from a millennial - I will have to say my Leaf purchase was as close to a Tesla sales model I have seen.

Also as a millennial I WANT TO BUY ONLINE - I WILL PAY MSRP (and maybe more) JUST TO BUY ONLINE. The problem with the current sales model is going to hit a wall when more of my generation buys cars (is coming just wait until they have to move out of their downtown loft to a suburb that has good schools and needs to get a car). I want to pick all my options and choices click the buy button and be done. Yes, I know it will never be that easy because of finance stuff, but I don't want to haggle the price or play games, I don't want to come in, I don't want to talk to anyone, and I don't want to be pressured either - hell my generation - buying online is IMPULSE buying. You will get more sales from us online (which will soon be the bulk of your sales) than going in.

My leaf purchase was almost straight up that way - before it was really offered in Texas (we were lagging a few months behind) I found a dealership in a town 4 hours away that was getting Leafs from orders and then selling them (instead of having to order them) - called the guy up, he gave me the price from online I had already discussed with the wife, he gave me the APR and the bank offer - done deal. 10 minutes of calling. It was delivered and I signed 3 sheets including one for my trade-in (he appraised it over the phone). Now could I have gotten more for the trade-in or a better rate or cost of the car if I went somewhere and haggled? Sure? Did I want to - HELL NO. If I buy another leaf, I want the same way. I would rather pay MSRP for less hassle a 10 minute phone call (email preferred, remember, we like computer contact better) than to go down and argue for a few hours. The best thing about us - we know what we want, we did all the research, we just don't want hassles or other interactions. So, if you are completely direct with simple interactions and straight forward - you can make full MSRP and more with my generation.

Now contrast to what my wife went through for her Volt. We KNEW exactly what we wanted and the options - it was going to be ordered and we were just going to pay price - sweet deal for the salesman. But we had to come down to the dealership to even order the vehicle, that took over an hour...really? Then when we came to pick up the car and finalize the purchase took us 4 HOURS (they had it the entire day - we went in the evening to prep the car). A car that we delivered just for us took SO LONG. Why did it take forever. They still tried to play games with us (what for? they are getting full price), we even bought a few options. Uggh. Awful. I know what I want, I told you what I want, let me shove money in your face to get what I want. Why is this so difficult?
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EvansvilleLeaf
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Re: A Note From A Leaf Salesman

Thu Jun 26, 2014 8:04 am

I'm on the boomer/Gen X cusp and I agree with the above, except I'm not going to pay MSRP. Give me a price online, I'll buy or I won't, and I want to be in and out as speedily as possible with no shysterism at the dealer. It is simply astounding how often simple requests for emailed prices get "come on down!!!!! Give me a call!!!!" responses. I never reply to them. They may have been willing to sell lower than the best emailed price but they just lost their commission by not responding to a basic and reasonable customer request. I don't need questions answered - never found a sales rep who knows what I know after even desultory research on the car. I don't need rustproofing, extended warranties, and other garbage rip-offs. I'll buy from the best response that matches my actual request. Idiots don't get a second chance.

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