A Note From A Leaf Salesman

megger5963 said:

Anyway, none of this is about the merits of the car business or the wealth car salesman can/cannot acrue.

I just wanted to educate the average Leaf customer on our side of things. I think that my fellow Leaf Sales Guys will appreciate it.

That pretty much concludes my participation in the thread.

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First let me thank you for your insight as a Leaf Car Salesman. And yes the lowest person on the totem pole ends up in the crap pile and sometimes penniless. Let me offer this, if I could pay, say a $300 commission (like a restaurant tip) directly to the sales person, I would do that; but the dealer considers "Sales People" property and I have to pay it to them instead. I do agree, that the Car Retail Sales Market is trickle down economics.

With that said and this might seem rude, but after reading your initial post, all that came to mind was a Danny Devito movie, "Other Peoples Money" ... "Amen". When it comes to surveys, I am skeptical. No person, place or thing is perfect; and unless I have some world ending apocalyptic reason (the wife makes do it), I do not do surveys. I purchased my Leaf used and I do not recall doing any post sale survey; if the sales person mentioned a survey, I gave a placated response and ignored it.

Anyway, everyone has a job to do and they are trained (supposedly) how to do it right. If you do your job right, which means the customer is "happy"; how is that above and beyond, and equated to the maximum values on any survey?

D3Leaf said:

When it comes to surveys, I am skeptical. No person, place or thing is perfect

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I think the same way.

I can't imagine a 10 in terms of dealer experience. There are always a few things that ruin it - and its not necessarily the salesperson's fault. The same goes for service advisors and post-service surveys (do service advisors also get "bonuses" based on surveys?). I _expect_ outstanding service all the time. I don't want to be sold crap I don't need. Don't downplay my concerns.

My last two dealership buying experiences were pretty similar. Knew what I wanted going into the dealer and had pre-arranged pricing. Both times sales staff were pleasant. Both times got reamed by the finance person trying to sell me endless mountains of needless crap while undermining my purcase: "You should buy this extended warranty because you know - this LEAF is new technology and is likely to break down!" or "You should lease this LEAF because it's new technology and is likely to break down!" - nice way to make me feel confident about my purchase :roll: This took at least an hour while I sat uncomfortably saying the same thing. No. No. No. Just let me sign the damn papers, write you a check and let me go.

No $hit, if we wanted this crap we would ask for it. Otherwise let me sign the necessary papers and leave. The finance people are the shysters in the car buying experience.

drees said:

D3Leaf said:

When it comes to surveys, I am skeptical. No person, place or thing is perfect

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I think the same way.

I can't imagine a 10 in terms of dealer experience. There are always a few things that ruin it - and its not necessarily the salesperson's fault. The same goes for service advisors and post-service surveys (do service advisors also get "bonuses" based on surveys?). I _expect_ outstanding service all the time. I don't want to be sold crap I don't need. Don't downplay my concerns.

My last two dealership buying experiences were pretty similar. Knew what I wanted going into the dealer and had pre-arranged pricing. Both times sales staff were pleasant. Both times got reamed by the finance person trying to sell me endless mountains of needless crap while undermining my purcase: "You should buy this extended warranty because you know - this LEAF is new technology and is likely to break down!" or "You should lease this LEAF because it's new technology and is likely to break down!" - nice way to make me feel confident about my purchase :roll: This took at least an hour while I sat uncomfortably saying the same thing. No. No. No. Just let me sign the damn papers, write you a check and let me go.

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generally the survey asks "Did the salesman do everything in their power to make your sales experience wonderful?" or something similar so I do not grade that question based on things he can't control. this is where the problem is rooted. people will use any part of the process against a question concerning the one part of the process

DaveinOlyWA said:

generally the survey asks "Did the salesman do everything in their power to make your sales experience wonderful?" or something similar so I do not grade that question based on things he can't control. this is where the problem is rooted. people will use any part of the process against a question concerning the one part of the process

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As I remember it, there was a question about how long the process took. I spent a total of something like 6 hours in that place, over two hot days. They got me a good deal, but how on earth could I give that a 10 for wait time? There wasn't a power failure or other act of the gods. It was a nightmarish process, and though the salesman tried to make it easier, the question didn't ask about trying.

This is a tough subject for me, because I went into the buying process as an "early adopter" and and enthusiast, someone who wanted an electric car, but left with a bitter taste in my mouth. I paid the highest amount possible, since I ordered it the day they became available in CT. The salesman was nice enough, but the general manager and finance guy ruined the experience for me and really made me feel like a got a sour deal. When the high payments didn't fit my new life a year after I got the car, I was devastated to see what Nissan did with the incentives on the 2012 cars and how they ruined the resale on my car, effectively by $12,000.

I never completed the survey, and unfortunately couldn't honestly advocate the Leaf to everyone that asked me about it, since I had the first in eastern CT.

I wish Nissan had tried to make the early adopters feel more welcome in the experience, it seems their evolving business plan with the Leaf had catered to the bottom feeders more than the actual enthusiasts. Potential buyers tend to trust the people they talk to and friends before ad's, salesman, and media.

I'd say the salesman's hands are tied on this, it's something that can't be fixed at their level.

fastmaxxcooper said:

This is a tough subject for me, because I went into the buying process as an "early adopter" and and enthusiast, someone who wanted an electric car, but left with a bitter taste in my mouth. I paid the highest amount possible, since I ordered it the day they became available in CT. The salesman was nice enough, but the general manager and finance guy ruined the experience for me and really made me feel like a got a sour deal. When the high payments didn't fit my new life a year after I got the car, I was devastated to see what Nissan did with the incentives on the 2012 cars and how they ruined the resale on my car, effectively by $12,000.

I never completed the survey, and unfortunately couldn't honestly advocate the Leaf to everyone that asked me about it, since I had the first in eastern CT.

I wish Nissan had tried to make the early adopters feel more welcome in the experience, it seems their evolving business plan with the Leaf had catered to the bottom feeders more than the actual enthusiasts. Potential buyers tend to trust the people they talk to and friends before ad's, salesman, and media.

I'd say the salesman's hands are tied on this, it's something that can't be fixed at their level.

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ya i hear ya. i am embarrassed to admit I paid $299 for my Samsung Galaxy 4 WITH two year contract extension knowing full well that if I waited it would be less than half that later on... but I did it anyway and you know what?? I feel that urge coming on again... I want to fight it but I feel overwhelmed...

That's alright you guys. I think Nissan is finally done giving away these cars.

For a month and a half now, the residuals for these Leafs have been closer to standard cars, with normal money factors. Hopefully the manufacturer keeps these prices the same and stops cheapening the value of this car.

It will depend entirely on sales... If they start to tank, you will see all of it come right back.
Once Nissan hits the 200,000 vehicle threshold and the $7,500 federal tax credit evaporates, you will certainly see all forms of creative deals.

megger5963 said:

That's alright you guys. I think Nissan is finally done giving away these cars.

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Agree with the poster about the finance person being the creep in dealership... the salesman charms you and then they try to disarm you...

The finance person who finished my LEAF purchase... had a creepy little trick of continuing to add the warranty multiple times after I said I absolutely didn't want it. It magically kept reappearing. I told her I wouldn't take the car if she didn't knock it off... and whaddaya know... we finally were able to get a contract printed without the warranty crap. took way too long...


Can't wait until Tesla eats their lunch!

Can't wait until Tesla eats their lunch!

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Will never happen.

megger5963 said:

(Excuse the long-winded-ness, there is a lot to cover...)

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Thanks for taking the time to present your experience. I gotta' say you're a determined person if you still manage to be enthusiastic when the dysfunctional dealership sales model results in a 50% pay cut for stuff that's not your fault, not to mention (OMG!) having to spin a roulette wheel for your salary.

There's so much going on there that is disheartening, and I sympathize. Some of it may improve as you begin to get repeat EV customers and don't have to go on at length about differences, etc... Some of it may get worse as I think EV buyers are more familiar or comfortable with internet sales, so the email-dance that takes up your time may become the norm on other models over time.

As far as surveys that is a particularly sore spot for me. I've had several dealers push WAY too hard for good responses, anywhere from begging, to beratement and veiled threats. You guys really are being bludgeoned with this approach and unfortunately so are the customers. I really don't want to worry that my next service visit or warranty claim is going to be problematic because I answered a survey honestly. It's a sorry reflection of a business model that has allowed itself to become corrupt.

I'm sorry a LEAF sale takes 2-3 days of your time. Certainly wasn't the case for my salesman. I walked in and drove away in my LEAF a couple of hours later. Would have been quicker if the dealership didn't have to dick around with all of their self-inflicted ins and outs.

In short, while I sympathize you're clearly working for a dysfunctional enterprise model. And in my opinion it's headed for the ash-heap of history. Nobody likes it. The MSRP is set high because they expect the customer to haggle. The customer has to haggle because they know they're being screwed. Dealerships invent byzantine financing itemizations to dazzle and confuse. It's all so pathetically crass and stupid.

Wouldn't it be so much nicer to work for a business like Tesla? Where you'd get paid for providing potential customers with a great experience, and then they go home and decide to buy one or not. They're not wasting your time with haggling and you're not wasting theirs. They're not blaming you for the finance guy tricking them on the payments or for having to sit and drink cold coffee while being abandoned for an hour to soften them up. They weren't made marks and you didn't have to make them marks. You don't have to worry about holdbacks and invoices and spins or any of the horse **** that you currently have to dodge every day at the dealership.

That's the car-sales model of the future and EVs will be leading the way. Hope you find a way to jump on board!

I didn't read every follow-up post and it does sound like a crappy system but I will say that my purchase experience was much more easier than what you wrote for my dealer.

I emailed him the initial inquiry. I don't like talking on the phone so I prefer email communication. He sent me some cars and after about 4-5 emails we had a deal done. Total time for him spent on those email was at most 30 minutes. We made an appointment for me to go in and buy the car.

I went in at my appointment time and brought all of my paperwork with me (employment verification for VPP, drivers license, insurance, etc.) and he just took it and made a copy. Time with the dealer took less than 10 minutes.

I went to the finance guy and it took about 30 minutes there but that was only because the guy kept trying to sell me on a maintenance plan that I kept refusing.

Car was delivered the next day and when I went to pick it up, I spent less than 5 minutes with my dealer to get the keys.

Total time spent by my dealer for my deal was 1 hour.

I didn't test drive the car.

RVD.

Oh, it WILL happen! The traditional dealership model is hopelessly broken...

megger5963 said:

Can't wait until Tesla eats their lunch!

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Will never happen.

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When I was fresh out of college, I bought a new Saturn. The process was quite painless until the finance guy tried to tell me I had no credit history and that they'd have to charge 17.5% interest. Thankfully, I had already gotten pre-approved with a bank for 8.25%, a reasonable rate at the time.

My most painless auto buying experiences have been when I've known exactly what I'm looking for, gotten a quote over the phone, via email, or online, then walked in ready to write a personal check for the entire amount. In that case, dealing with the finance person is very easy. Just say "no" to anything optional. I tell them up front, when I first walk into their office, that this is my intention.

Living on a budget, and saving up and paying cash for things, is quite liberating. If you don't have the money, then you wait, or buy only what you do have the money for and upgrade later. Sure makes car buying, and life, a lot simpler. And you tend to spend less. (If I were inclined to finance things, I would have had a Tesla a while ago, with a big, fat payment.)

The only new car I *bought* was a 1986 Honda Civic Si hatchback (you can see the actual car in the Wikipedia entry for it). The salesman was quite nice, and a Brit; I'd failed to qualify for a loan the year before, but after 14 months at my job I was able to pick the car and options I felt I could afford, and just sign. There was no haggling for Hondas in most cases at the time, but he threw in floor mats. ;-)

After going through five LA-area Nissan dealerships, I was unable to get a price that I could accept. To be fair, it would have been better if I started at the end of June. The whole process of haggling, getting dealers to match prices, etc. was annoying and outdated. While I really wanted a Leaf with QC, I'm settling for a Ford Focus Electric. My experience with two of the Ford dealers was just as annoying as the five Nissan dealers I tried to work with. Thankfully, the third dealer was able to nail everything down over email with me and I'm going to sign tomorrow, for a price much better than what I could find for Leaf S + QC.

I do agree with the other posters that say the Tesla model is the future.

Nubo said:

[snip]
Wouldn't it be so much nicer to work for a business like Tesla? Where you'd get paid for providing potential customers with a great experience, and then they go home and decide to buy one or not. They're not wasting your time with haggling and you're not wasting theirs. They're not blaming you for the finance guy tricking them on the payments or for having to sit and drink cold coffee while being abandoned for an hour to soften them up. They weren't made marks and you didn't have to make them marks. You don't have to worry about holdbacks and invoices and spins or any of the horse **** that you currently have to dodge every day at the dealership.

That's the car-sales model of the future and EVs will be leading the way. Hope you find a way to jump on board!

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spot on, the traditional dealership model is a parasite feasting on the end user at the expense of the manufacturer. earlier a poster remarked about a poor dealership experience and blamed it on Nissan. Nissan is not the villain in the process, the leech like system of selling cars is the problem

RPadTV said:

After going through five LA-area Nissan dealerships, I was unable to get a price that I could accept. To be fair, it would have been better if I started at the end of June. The whole process of haggling, getting dealers to match prices, etc. was annoying and outdated. While I really wanted a Leaf with QC, I'm settling for a Ford Focus Electric. My experience with two of the Ford dealers was just as annoying as the five Nissan dealers I tried to work with. Thankfully, the third dealer was able to nail everything down over email with me and I'm going to sign tomorrow, for a price much better than what I could find for Leaf S + QC.

I do agree with the other posters that say the Tesla model is the future.

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I sympathize. Did you haggle in person or via email/phone? And since you wanted a LEAF with QC why did you settle for a Focus that has no QC?

It's probably too late for you now, but if I were in the same situation I'd have gotten quotes from bay area high-volume LEAF dealers such as Boardwalk Nissan and Sunnyvale Nissan. You'd almost certainly save more than enough to pay for the cost of shipping your LEAF to LA (or you could drive if you wanted to take your time and recharge).

megger5963 said:

Can't wait until Tesla eats their lunch!

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Will never happen.

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I don't expect Tesla to "eat their lunch" directly.
I do expect the business model, you yourself complained about, to grow to compete as a result of Tesla showing a much better way of doing it.

Those that don't adapt will fall to those that do.