2013 Low Battery Capacity AHr Battery Degradation

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
lorenfb said:
TimLee said:
lorenfb said:
Production #s
Dave - 423014 - MY 2013
Brock - 423875 - MY 2013
Mine - 416635 - MY 2013

Note: The last 5 digits of the above represents the actual production number of the model year (MY).
Click to expand...
Where did you determine this?
It may be correct, but it may not necessarily mean that the vehicles were produced in this chronological sequence on the production line.
It was clearly shown that 2011 and 2012 Japan produced VINS were assigned earlier and sometimes were several weeks different than actual chronological production sequence.
Not sure if this is the case at Smryna.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

First, that's how all OEM vehicle manufacturers assign VINs in sequential order based
on an entry date into manufacturing. Additionally, one can check the production date
on the vehicle, which some post in this forum, and that correlates with the last digits
of the VIN (posted by some) when compared to another Leaf's data.

As an example, my Leaf was built in September of 2013 and delivered in late November.
So at some point in September, Nissan started production on its 16,635 Leaf. When Dave
bought his Leaf in December, 23,875 Leafs had been produced. Brock's leaf was produced
in 2013 toward the end of the 2013 production, but sold in 2014.

Bottom line: The last digits of the VIN give a relative relationship within a few weeks
at most of when a vehicle was produced.
 
RegGuheert said:
BrockWI said:
Exactly what I was thinking, at least I know our numbers are not WAY off, it just looks like some folks got some super batteries or something?
Click to expand...
Actually, the point of this thread is that MOST LEAFs ship with 66+Ah indicated. But starting in 2013, some are indicating ~60Ah, even when new. Fortunately, range tests indicate that these LEAFs have about the same range as all the others, but more of the range is available below the VLBW.
Click to expand...


actually the max seems to be 67.36 ahr and 22.7 kwh available. Hx is the one that varies quite a bit.

highest mine has been has been 107.10 % but have seen a few with 109+

here is LEAF after 4th of July weekend. SO worked so I did not go anywhere. So 4 days, drove about 100 miles. LEAF does not like sitting. Add to that, 3 local jobs in Oly so short working days as well. This is the result.

63.71 ahr small.jpg


Fast forward; Now its a "normal" week (as normal as it can be...) and notice no QC's but only difference is working out of town and driving a minimum of 75 miles including 4 of 6 days that were over 93 miles. So deep cycling but just normal 4.8 KW home charging (EVSE upgrade running 20 amps) and now we have this.


66.59 ahr small.jpg
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Amazing. At 5 miles per kw, can you get 110 miles?
Click to expand...

no. for whatever reason, I lose a few on the way to turtle. I did do 108 miles and still had like 10 on the GOM but that was all super slow in town driving. would have gone farther but was burnt out by then
 
I just did a long trip (1,500 miles in total over 2 weeks) in my 2013 and observed the impact on my AHr / Hx / SOH / etc via Leaf Spy Pro.

I started out with AHr=62.13, SOH=95%, Hx=95.69%.

After two days with 4 or 5 short quick charges each, and about 400 miles of driving, I was at AHr=65.54, SOH=100%, Hx=100.26%.

Then I drove one or two quick charges per day for several days, and noticed the numbers going back down a bit.

Finally, a couple days ago I performed 7 quick charge sessions in less than 12 hours (and drove 275 miles in between). Then the next morning I did another 100 miles or so with 2 short quick charges. I ended up with AHr=64.93, SOH=99%, Hx=100.25%

Now that we're back home, I'm going to be driving my normal 25-30 miles per day and expect to see it fall quickly back to the 92-95% ranges.
 
Computerizer said:
I started out with AHr=62.13, SOH=95%, Hx=95.69%.

After two days with 4 or 5 short quick charges each, and about 400 miles of driving, I was at AHr=65.54, SOH=100%, Hx=100.26%.
Click to expand...
Both you and DaveinOlyWa have reported a boost in reported Ah following QCs in MY2013 LEAFs. In your case, 3.4Ah, which is a significant amount. I wonder what is behind this phenomenon.
 
RegGuheert said:
Computerizer said:
I started out with AHr=62.13, SOH=95%, Hx=95.69%.

After two days with 4 or 5 short quick charges each, and about 400 miles of driving, I was at AHr=65.54, SOH=100%, Hx=100.26%.
Click to expand...
Both you and DaveinOlyWa have reported a boost in reported Ah following QCs in MY2013 LEAFs. In your case, 3.4Ah, which is a significant amount. I wonder what is behind this phenomenon.
Click to expand...

I also wonder and at issue is the accuracy of Nissan instrumentation. the fact that these numbers were not designed for public consumption and the remote possibility that

**fantasy thought warning**

the BMS is temporarily adjusting the available power to accommodate predicted long range needs.

**end of fantasy**

I did a similar experiment except in reverse. I spent two weeks driving like normal people. Averaging 30 miles a day with only an occasional day in the 60 mile range but also two 24 stints of parking a few days under 20 miles. The number dropped as expected
 
RegGuheert said:
Computerizer said:
I started out with AHr=62.13, SOH=95%, Hx=95.69%.

After two days with 4 or 5 short quick charges each, and about 400 miles of driving, I was at AHr=65.54, SOH=100%, Hx=100.26%.
Click to expand...
Both you and DaveinOlyWa have reported a boost in reported Ah following QCs in MY2013 LEAFs. In your case, 3.4Ah, which is a significant amount. I wonder what is behind this phenomenon.
Click to expand...


My wife's early MY2013 jumped from 62.02 to 64.25 AHr after a QC in June this year. Over the next few days fell down to its usual 60-62 range. However, multiple QCs on other occasions have not resulted in any bump in AHr capacity. I don't have QC in my 2013 S, so don't have post QC data for that car, however, in May this year, my S did have an unexpected jump in AHr capacity, also from 60.87 to 64.33. Completely unexpected and capacity also dropped to the usual 60.5-62 range afterwards. Maybe some freak bug in a version of LeafSpy, since the bumps were about 1 month apart?
 
stjohnh said:
RegGuheert said:
Computerizer said:
I started out with AHr=62.13, SOH=95%, Hx=95.69%.

After two days with 4 or 5 short quick charges each, and about 400 miles of driving, I was at AHr=65.54, SOH=100%, Hx=100.26%.
Click to expand...
Both you and DaveinOlyWa have reported a boost in reported Ah following QCs in MY2013 LEAFs. In your case, 3.4Ah, which is a significant amount. I wonder what is behind this phenomenon.
Click to expand...


My wife's early MY2013 jumped from 62.02 to 64.25 AHr after a QC in June this year. Over the next few days fell down to its usual 60-62 range. However, multiple QCs on other occasions have not resulted in any bump in AHr capacity. I don't have QC in my 2013 S, so don't have post QC data for that car, however, in May this year, my S did have an unexpected jump in AHr capacity, also from 60.87 to 64.33. Completely unexpected and capacity also dropped to the usual 60.5-62 range afterwards. Maybe some freak bug in a version of LeafSpy, since the bumps were about 1 month apart?
Click to expand...

My wife's MY13 also exhibits the same behavior as mine. At one point I graphed the AHr/SOH/Hx over time while we went on a moderately long trip (200 miles or so). All of these values increased while the vehicle was being driven at speed down the highway, and never increased while the vehicle was being charged, either on DCQC or Level 2. I don't think it has anything to do with DCQC, I think it has to do with how far you drive between charges, or perhaps how far down you run the battery.
 
Computerizer said:
My wife's MY13 also exhibits the same behavior as mine. ....I think it has to do with how far you drive between charges, or perhaps how far down you run the battery.
Click to expand...

Definitely not how far I run the battery down. I drive below VLBW at least once a week, below disappearance of the last fuel bar (about 4 miles before turtle) once a month, and have turtled the car 4 times. None cause any bump in capacity readings.
 
stjohnh said:
Computerizer said:
My wife's MY13 also exhibits the same behavior as mine. ....I think it has to do with how far you drive between charges, or perhaps how far down you run the battery.
Click to expand...

Definitely not how far I run the battery down. I drive below VLBW at least once a week, below disappearance of the last fuel bar (about 4 miles before turtle) once a month, and have turtled the car 4 times. None cause any bump in capacity readings.
Click to expand...

I did an experiment and did see an increase but it required 4 days of full charges, long commutes, and warm weather. The full charges and long commutes and the 4 days seem to be the minimum requirements.

twice the biggest jump was the 4th day from 64.47/98.38/21.4 to 65.42/100.04/22.0 on ahr/Hx/kwh

http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/09/manipulating-battery-stats.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
Here's our battery capacity (AHr) as reported by Leaf Spy Pro over the course of our 1,500-mile road trip. The longest drive (275 miles, 7 DCQC) was on Sept 11th. Sept 1st was second-longest (219 miles, 5 DCQC).

bsYJnhM.png


Graph includes a total of 11,592 data points. Large diagonal jumps are between recording sessions (I wasn't in the car).
 
on another post you had a temperature graph. I'm wondering how the capacity changes correlate with the temperature of the battery at the time. I've heard a warmer battery holds more energy.
 
johnrhansen said:
on another post you had a temperature graph. I'm wondering how the capacity changes correlate with the temperature of the battery at the time. I've heard a warmer battery holds more energy.
Click to expand...

There is definitely a visual correlation, though that also definitely does not imply causation, as there are a lot of other things going on besides the temperature increasing throughout the day.

Here's a graph of "Hx" (which follows AHr but has more precision) and the T1 temperature sensor for our entire 1,500-mile road trip.

gcVUsBy.png


There are a lot of data there (11,600 points) but you can see that in general they both increase at the same time. However when temperature falls (rarely), Hx does not fall at the same time. Hx generally would fall the following morning after starting to drive again (even though the temperature had already fallen, obviously).
 
My 2013 LEAF SL is going back to the mother ship tomorrow as my 2 year lease is ending.

I took it on a rough range test this morning, trying to simulate the range test that I did with the car when it was new.

Here are readings and range data from these two tests done when the car was new and at two years old, 20.171 miles.
Note: I'm not claiming that these are precise tests. I'm just trying to add some data to the community data base on the 2013 models' degradation behavior. Discount or ignore it if you wish, I doesn't matter to me.

Car Model: 2013 LEAF SL, Premium
First test date June 20, 2013
Last test date: June 11, 2015
Miles at first test: 328 miles
Miles at last test: 20,086 miles
Capacity Bars: 12 throughout
Geographic location: Coastal Orange County, CA
Range test at 62 mph cruise as much as possible, air conditioning off, bluetooth audio on, D mode, headlights off.

Amp Hours (LeafSpy)
2013: 62.47 - 2015: 56.72......................Amp Hour degradation: 10%

Gids at 100% charge: (LeafSpy)
2013: 272 - 2015: 244.............................Gid degradation: 10%

HX: (LeafSpy)
2013: 94.2% - 2015: 84.88%

Miles/kWh for test run (LEAF dash)
2013: 4.5 - 2015: 4.4

Range Driven to Turtle:
2013: 98.3 miles - 2015: 85.3 miles.............Range degradation: 13.2%

From this data, I'm concluding that my 2013 SL has suffered between 10% and 12% degradation in my coastal Southern California area. The car has lived through two summers.
 
Boomer23 said:
My 2013 LEAF SL is going back to the mother ship tomorrow as my 2 year lease is ending.

I took it on a rough range test this morning, trying to simulate the range test that I did with the car when it was new.

Here are readings and range data from these two tests done when the car was new and at two years old, 20.171 miles.
Note: I'm not claiming that these are precise tests. I'm just trying to add some data to the community data base on the 2013 models' degradation behavior. Discount or ignore it if you wish, I doesn't matter to me.

Car Model: 2013 LEAF SL, Premium
First test date June 20, 2011
Last test date: June 11, 2013
Miles at first test: 328 miles
Miles at last test: 20,086 miles
Capacity Bars: 12 throughout
Geographic location: Coastal Orange County, CA
Range test at 62 mph cruise as much as possible, air conditioning off, bluetooth audio on, D mode, headlights off.

Amp Hours (LeafSpy)
2013: 62.47 - 2015: 56.72......................Amp Hour degradation: 10%

Gids at 100% charge: (LeafSpy)
2013: 272 - 2015: 244.............................Gid degradation: 10%

HX: (LeafSpy)
2013: 94.2% - 2015: 84.88%

Miles/kWh for test run (LEAF dash)
2013: 4.5 - 2015: 4.4

Range Driven to Turtle:
2013: 98.3 miles - 2015: 85.3 miles.............Range degradation: 13.2%

From this data, I'm concluding that my 2013 SL has suffered between 10% and 12% degradation in my coastal Southern California area. The car has lived through two summers.
Click to expand...

Are the First/Last test dates typos ? (2011/2013?)
 
Boomer23 said:
My 2013 LEAF SL is going back to the mother ship tomorrow as my 2 year lease is ending.

I took it on a rough range test this morning, trying to simulate the range test that I did with the car when it was new.

Here are readings and range data from these two tests done when the car was new and at two years old, 20.171 miles.
Note: I'm not claiming that these are precise tests. I'm just trying to add some data to the community data base on the 2013 models' degradation behavior. Discount or ignore it if you wish, I doesn't matter to me.

Car Model: 2013 LEAF SL, Premium
First test date June 20, 2011
Last test date: June 11, 2013
Miles at first test: 328 miles
Miles at last test: 20,086 miles
Capacity Bars: 12 throughout
Geographic location: Coastal Orange County, CA
Range test at 62 mph cruise as much as possible, air conditioning off, bluetooth audio on, D mode, headlights off.

Amp Hours (LeafSpy)
2013: 62.47 - 2015: 56.72......................Amp Hour degradation: 10%

Gids at 100% charge: (LeafSpy)
2013: 272 - 2015: 244.............................Gid degradation: 10%

HX: (LeafSpy)
2013: 94.2% - 2015: 84.88%

Miles/kWh for test run (LEAF dash)
2013: 4.5 - 2015: 4.4

Range Driven to Turtle:
2013: 98.3 miles - 2015: 85.3 miles.............Range degradation: 13.2%

From this data, I'm concluding that my 2013 SL has suffered between 10% and 12% degradation in my coastal Southern California area. The car has lived through two summers.
Click to expand...


curious what your manufacture date was. Mine is Nov 2013 and I started with 284 GIDs and 67.36 ahr. FYI; after 23,000 miles I have lost a bit less than 10% which means my numbers are NOW down to where you started...
 

Similar threads

M
Battery best practices interesting research
Replies
1
Views
377
knightmb
knightmb
I
Battery imbalance question
Replies
2
Views
368
MozzoAU
M
S
Charging tips from Nissan
Replies
0
Views
182
Sweetjan
S
Jerther
New 40kwh battery on 2018 SL, sudden charge drop at low load
2 3
Replies
50
Views
3K
nlspace
N
L
My 2011 Lead is down to 28 miles charging capacity (on a good day...)
Replies
9
Views
1K
SalisburySam
SalisburySam

Latest posts

Back
Top