Official BMW i3 thread

Man that is really bad. I don't live in a mountainous area but I still wouldn't touch it on account of resale and the reputation this thing is going to acquire.
Yet again we see it looks like GM isn't so dumb after all.

There were touting early on how it would qualify for the white sticker...

evnow said:

TomT said:

All this crap and they didn't get a white sticker anyway!

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It was done to get gold credits- not some stickers.

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Well, the problem is easily fixed by a firmware flash - but will they fix it?

drees said:

Well, the problem is easily fixed by a firmware flash - but will they fix it?

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Yes, after a lawsuit is filed for accidents.

edatoakrun said:

I've posted previously why an only ~25 kW range extending generator that the driver cannot select until the battery is near depletion would not provide satisfactory (or even safe) performance in mountainous areas.

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Hmm... guess they didn't test the REX in that state with few BEV sales (California). Oh well, back to the drawing board.

I received a BMW i3 brochure in snail mail today.

On one of the pages, it says "100 MILES PER 0 GALLONS" and it mentions "up to 110 miles* on a single charge.
...
*BMW i3 range of 70-110 miles based on BMW NA test results of real-world driving"

Great... Remember that the i3 is EPA rated at 81 miles, which is less than the current Leaf: http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/Find.do?action=sbs&id=35207&id=34699&id=33558&id=32154" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Ther is a lot to like about the i3 but I predict that the I3 Rex will be recalled at some point because it is unable to maintain a safe speed on the Rex. Ther will be complaints and maybe the software I'll be changed somehow.

It's just not a safe situation.
Many other cars have been recalled because they slow or stop unexpectedly.

Since the only reason to program the Rex to operate as it does in the U.S. was to get a California White Sticker, and it wound up not qualifying for it anyway, there is no reason not to reprogram it using the EU software calibration... I think the larger problem is, though, that the Rex is simply way underpowered.

kmp647 said:

Ther is a lot to like about the i3 but I predict that the I3 Rex will be recalled at some point because it is unable to maintain a safe speed on the Rex

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My son and I test drove the i3 yesterday. Drove very well, very zippy on the surface streets here. Of course our test drive was no more than 5 miles all on surface streets. I would have liked to take it on the highway, but i didn't ask. Field of vision was very good. A great car for city drive, for taking off from a stop light and switching lanes around. Doesn't look that bad at all in person, compared to all the videos I have seen,

But the things that I feared were more or less confirmed during my test drive. It is essentially a two door car, but more easier to get in and out of the back seat. In a typical two door car the driver/front passenger has to get out, slide/fold the seats to let people in. In the i3 you need to open the front doors for the back doors to be opened, and hold the front doors open until the back doors are closed. So it is a step up from a two door car in terms of ergonomics, but far removed from a regular 4 door sedan. The back seats are tiny just like a coupe.

But the real downer is the out of the door price for a ReX model - $50K. The non-ReX model is around $4K less, but that doesn't help solve the range anxiety problem, so it is a non-starter.

I simply cannot justify $50K (or $40K with Fed and Texas rebate). The lease price though was beyond ridiculous, which came to around $700+

TomT said:

Since the only reason to program the Rex to operate as it does in the U.S. was to get a California White Sticker, and it wound up not qualifying for it anyway, there is no reason not to reprogram it using the EU software calibration...

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I thought that the reason the Rex is programmed to operate the way it does is so that the car can qualify for more ZEV credits.

Cheers, Wayne

TomT said:

Since the only reason to program the Rex to operate as it does in the U.S. was to get a California White Sticker, and it wound up not qualifying for it anyway, there is no reason not to reprogram it using the EU software calibration... I think the larger problem is, though, that the Rex is simply way underpowered.

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It was to get golden credits - not white stickers. But people in the media speculated that it was for white stickers - and BMW played along. Afterall it sounds better if it was for white stickers than simply for credits. But the dirty little secret was that all along BMW just wanted to get the credits.

wwhitney said:

TomT said:

Since the only reason to program the Rex to operate as it does in the U.S. was to get a California White Sticker, and it wound up not qualifying for it anyway, there is no reason not to reprogram it using the EU software calibration...

Click to expand...

I thought that the reason the Rex is programmed to operate the way it does is so that the car can qualify for more ZEV credits.

Cheers, Wayne

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Unfortunately for BMW it failed to qualify as a BEVx, and met the same AT-PZEV standard as the Volt does (thus qualifying for the green but not the white stickers). This removed the main justification for not providing a hold mode and reducing the size of the tank from 2.4 to 1.9 gallons so that it's less than the AER. That the lack of a hold mode, in particular, would severely cripple the car's utility in any state with long flat drives from urban areas to the foothills followed by long freeway climbs to the crest (such as is the case for trips from the Bay Area to Tahoe or Yosemite) has been known and commented on for months. That the REx would be incapable of making it at safe speeds over a fairly small climb (by western standards) starting at sea level such as the Hwy 17 trip over the Santa Cruz mountains, makes the car's practical limitations even clearer. This just provides more ammunition for those of us who believe that the lack of a hold mode will kill what are already likely to be anemic sales of a too expensive car. BMW has to fix this, and soon, if they don't want to restrict REx sales to flat states.

GRA said:

Unfortunately for BMW it failed to qualify as a BEVx, and met the same AT-PZEV standard as the Volt does (thus qualifying for the green but not the white stickers).

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Stickers are administered differently than CARB's BEV/BEVx. BMW qualified for BEVx and they will get gold credits. DOT never had any plans to let BEVx get white stickers.

Irregardless, the point is that BMW advertised that it WOULD get white stickers and then when it did not, it made them look very bad. Perception IS reality! Maybe it got BMW some credits but, as implemented, Rex is all but worthless to the actual U.S. consumer of the i3 and has given them a black eye.

evnow said:

GRA said:

Unfortunately for BMW it failed to qualify as a BEVx, and met the same AT-PZEV standard as the Volt does (thus qualifying for the green but not the white stickers).

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Stickers are administered differently than CARB's BEV/BEVx. BMW qualified for BEVx and they will get gold credits. DOT never had any plans to let BEVx get white stickers.

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TomT said:

Irregardless, the point is that BMW advertised that it WOULD get white stickers and then when it did not, it made them look very bad. Perception IS reality!

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Did they? Source?

There's been some rumblings either here, mybmwi3.com or on the i3 Facebook group that BMW never did that but some reporter essentially misreported or misinterpreted or read into things too much, leading to the incorrect conclusion that this was all for white CA HOV stickers.

I haven't followed the details that closely since I don't care that much.

I don't either since I have no intention of every owning one unless there are some significant improvements and pricing/lease adjustments...

cwerdna said:

I haven't followed the details that closely since I don't care that much.

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A lot of us don't differentiate between BEVx and white stickers. They are administered by two different departments - but most of us thought one equated the other. As I said BMW never tried to correct this kind of reporting...

evnow said:

GRA said:

Unfortunately for BMW it failed to qualify as a BEVx, and met the same AT-PZEV standard as the Volt does (thus qualifying for the green but not the white stickers).

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Stickers are administered differently than CARB's BEV/BEVx. BMW qualified for BEVx and they will get gold credits. DOT never had any plans to let BEVx get white stickers.

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According to this ievs article they didn't get BEVx:

"BREAKING: BMW i3 REx Gets Green HOV Sticker, TZEV Rating" [Emphasis added]

http://insideevs.com/breaking-bmw-i3-rex-gets-green-hov-sticker/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What the TZEV rating does get them is the full $2,500 rebate of a BEV under the CVRP, rather than the maximum of $1,500 for an AT-PZEV rated car like the Volt.

The relevant section of CARB 2012-2017 amendments describing the proposed BEVx category can be found on page 13, section 2.1.1. of the following:

"http://www.arb.ca.gov/regact/2012/zev2012/zevisor.pdf

This is what the wiki for "Range Extender" says for BEVx, as adopted in March 2012:

• The vehicle must have a rated all-electric range of at least 75 mi (121 km). This is higher than the 50 mi (80 km) required of a zero-emission vehicle;
  
  The auxiliary power unit (APU) must provide range less than, or at most equal to, that battery range;
  
  The APU must not be capable of switching on until the battery charge has been depleted;
  
  The vehicle must meet super ultra low emission vehicle (SULEV) requirements; and
  
  The APU and all associated fuel systems must comply with zero evaporative emissions requirements.

IIRR the i3 failed the evaporative emissions requirement for BEVx, as well as falling short of the necessary AER.

ACC is very cool!

Title: How BMW i3 Active Criuse Control (ACC) Works - Through Google Glass!
http://blog.scottlawrencelawson.com/2014/09/how-bmw-i3-active-criuse-control-acc.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

^^^
Haven't seen the videos yet, but that guy is a BMW fanboy, from what I've gathered and he's had his i3 less than a month.

There have been numerous reports from multiple people on the BMW i3 Facebook group of their adaptive cruise control getting confused (for lack of a better word) thus incorrectly disengaging in certain conditions, sometimes several times a day. This is an issue given that the i3 has VERY strong regen (MUCH stronger than '13+ Leaf in B mode) and that ends up kicking in. At highway speeds, not sure if the brake lights kick on when this happens, but some of those reports have included people behind them getting pissed off and wondering why they suddenly slowed down.

IMHO, sounds like the current behavior is an accident (and recall) waiting to happen. Supposedly (it's unclear if it's effective or a placebo and useless), the system can be trained/basically told that it incorrectly disengaged, thus reducing the frequency of incorrect disengagement.

They right now need to REALLY educate customers on the above and telling them they must keep their foot over the accelerator when using this ACC, in the event of sudden disengagement, Then, they should change the software to warn you when it disengages (like via a bunch of beeps) and give several seconds before strong regen kicks in.