Official California PG&E Thread

PGE is suppose to have na answer on E9 being optional or not, not sure that mattes though. Solar customers could be worse off on E9 because of the change in ties for peak, etc. What would be great would be E6 for solar customers with E9 off-peak rates! This give low cost EV charging and still keeps the solar production rates high for day and times longer. Ruling on E9 is supposed to be in today.


New E9 hotline- 1-877-743-7782

Here is more than you'd ever want to know about the kV2cs net meter - how to read it, plus a lot of technical information. The meter can be triggered to display more data using a magnet on the face at 3 o'clock:

http://www.gepower.com/prod_serv/products/metering/en/downloads/kv2ci_oi.pdf

My next bill should have the E9A billing on it, but I don't know whether it will be all that useful. With a bit of math it should be. Of course right after it was installed this cold/rain snap happened, causing the furnace to run regularly (gas, but big fan motor) and causing my wife and me to do less outdoors activity, so more time on the computer, TV, cooking, lights, etc. Plus my daughter came home for Thanksgiving, whereas last year we all went to my son's place, so the bottom line is that we will probably show much more usage this year than last and maybe sneak into tier 3 (which we don't normally). The bill will probably go up but not because of the rate change.

DeaneG said:

The "meter man" came out this morning to swap in a kV2cs net meter. He said to go ahead and switch on the PV. And he even knew that I was aiming for the E9A rate rather than E6. Hope it all works.

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Glad to hear that yours is moving along.

Could you tell me if the "meter man" set up an appointment first or did he just show up unannounced?

greenleaf said:

Could you tell me if the "meter man" set up an appointment first or did he just show up unannounced?

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He just showed up about 10am with a knock on the door, no appointment or phone call first. I think he would have swapped out the meter even if I wasn't home. I spoke with my PG&E "project manager" for the first time several hours after that. He was surprised to hear that the meter had already been swapped. I think I lit a fire at PG&E with my previous phone call asking for an expedited fix after that 7-week wait.

DeaneG said:

greenleaf said:

Could you tell me if the "meter man" set up an appointment first or did he just show up unannounced?

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He just showed up about 10am with a knock on the door, no appointment or phone call first. I think he would have swapped out the meter even if I wasn't home. I spoke with my PG&E "project manager" for the first time several hours after that. He was surprised to hear that the meter had already been swapped. I think I lit a fire at PG&E with my previous phone call asking for an expedited fix after that 7-week wait.

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Thanks. I received the following email from PG&E two days ago:

Thank you for your application to participate in Pacific Gas and Electric Company’s (PG&E’s) Solar and Net Energy Metering (NEM) program. If you have retained the services of a solar or wind power company and have provided it with written authorization to act on your behalf, we will communicate with that company directly ...

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Did you get such an email too? It was signed off by Mike H.

I called PGE 3 days ago, and they told me that they would switch me to E9A as soon as possible.
No need to change the meter, as it's a smart meter.
Overall, that was the easiest thing in the whole LEAF purchase process.

greenleaf said:

..I received the following email from PG&E two days ago ... Did you get such an email too? It was signed off by Mike H.

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Yes, about 2-3 days before the "meter man" showed up and swapped the meter (was smartmeter, now kV2cs). Mike H was also the overall manager for mine. My local "program manager will come over next Tues to have a look at my panel. Not expecting any problems since I'm planning to use an existing unused dedicated 24v 20A circuit for a 16A Leviton EVSE.

gudy said:

I called PGE 3 days ago, and they told me that they would switch me to E9A as soon as possible.
No need to change the meter, as it's a smart meter.
Overall, that was the easiest thing in the whole LEAF purchase process.

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That's funny/sad, PG&E just went out of their way to change my smartmeter to a kV2cs for an E9A rate. I'll miss the hourly consumption info from the smartmeter.

Was Mike H involved on your non-switched-meter? The New Construction group (not Mike H's group) told me that my existing smartmeter would be fine. Then the meter man showed up a day later and switched it to a kV2cs.

EDIT: maybe it's because I just installed PV solar and need net metering.

DeaneG said:

That's funny/sad, PG&E just went out of their way to change my smartmeter to a kV2cs for an E9A rate. I'll miss the hourly consumption info from the smartmeter.

Was Mike H involved on your non-switched-meter? The New Construction group (not Mike H's group) told me that my existing smartmeter would be fine. Then the meter man showed up a day later and switched it to a kV2cs.

EDIT: maybe it's because I just installed PV solar and need net metering.

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I was skimming one of the southern California utility threads (don't remember which one) and they were complaining about smart meters counting negative flows as positive, and so double billing anybody with solar, then somebody said the utility had just come up with a way to reprogram the meters so they could now be used properly for net metering.

My PG&E project manager came over today to inspect my panel and power feed for EV charging. He mentioned that E9 rates are now officially "optional" rather than mandatory for EV charging.

He also said that most solar PV+EV customers should benefit from using the E6 rate, rather than E9A. Other than the 1-hour "peak time" difference, E9A's peak rates are very close to E6, but E9A off-peak rates are much lower. So I'm going to stick with E9A (an uphill battle so far). My solar panels are tilted west rather than south, so I'll have better summer afternoon sunlight collection (what I need with humming air conditioners) but reduced winter and morning power.

DeaneG said:

Other than the 1-hour "peak time" difference, E9A's peak rates are very close to E6, but E9A off-peak rates are much lower.

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Off peak Tier 2 and Tier 3 (onwards) are more expensive for E6 (compared to E9a). E9a would be better choice compared to E6. E9b + E6 might be good in the long run.

leaf561 said:

Off peak Tier 2 and Tier 3 (onwards) are more expensive for E6 (compared to E9a). E9a would be better choice compared to E6. E9b + E6 might be good in the long run.

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So I'm wondering why the standard recommendation by PG&E personnel is E6 over E9A? Of course, it does mean more revenue for PG&E!

DeaneG said:

So I'm wondering why the standard recommendation by PG&E personnel is E6 over E9A? Of course, it does mean more revenue for PG&E!

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I don't think it is deliberate. It is just lack of knowledge or clarity on their part. I was even told by one PG&E person that E9a meter doesn't support spin back. I guess, it is not true, since you have E9a with solar.

Regarding which plan to go for, I would say, it all depends upon your usage pattern. Initially, those going from E1 to E9 will see a big shock during peak period, because of the $0.31 rate (from E1 $0.11). But eventually they will get used to it and start doing their laundries during weekends Those with solar, it plays in their advantage, because PG&E pays $0.31 for what you generate during peak hour, and you will be paying around $0.054 to $0.10 during night time.

As we all know, most of California, except the portion from Lake Tahoe north, is set at an angle. Like many places in the state, the streets in our community were laid out parallel and perpendicular to the railroad, and the railroad runs parallel with the valley. "South" is really South by Southeast, and that's the direction my solar panels face.

This obviously means my panels work better in the morning than the afternoon. That, in turn, means a significant penalty for the one-hour shift in peak time between E6 and E9.

Yes, the 3 cents/kWh savings of E9 over E6, midnight to 7 AM, is very tempting and if I intended to put lots of miles on my LEAF it would probably outweigh the one hour delay in E9 peak time. But I only drive about 7K miles/year, so I'm planning to stay on E6.

Besides, E6 off-peak is 13 hours on summer weekday nights, 21 hours on winter weekday nights, while E9 off-peak on weekday nights is only 7 hours year round. Since I am driving low mileage, I plan to use L1 charging only, and 7 hours may not be enough on some nights.

Like they say, YMMV.

planet4ever said:

This obviously means my panels work better in the morning than the afternoon.

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Doesn't the morning fog affect you? I was also under the impression that to get full credit from CA, you need to be facing South West with a certain angle and some % of sunlight everyday...

leaf561 said:

Doesn't the morning fog affect you? I was also under the impression that to get full credit from CA, you need to be facing South West with a certain angle and some % of sunlight everyday...

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You can play with PVwatts to see how much angle will affect you based on your location.

If you are near the coast, then yes, in general turning the panels a bit towards the west will increase output, but it's not significant - perhaps 5-10% degrees west from south will increase annual output by a few percent in my area at least.

I plan to stick with E1. My PV array is only sized to eliminate tier 3 and higher.

greenleaf said:

I plan to stick with E1. My PV array is only sized to eliminate tier 3 and higher.

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I'm in the same boat. We use too much power during peak hours to change from E1, and our PV panels will only keep out of top tiers.

I just got off the phone with PG&E Clean Air people. I was told that recent developments meant I could keep my E7 tariff and charge my Leaf through my current TOU meter the person told me this after checking with two supervisors. Which is good news considering I was quoted $7K to install a second meter for E9B and can now go with the original Aerovironment quote of $2K including charger, hopefully installed to get the tax break before January 1st.