Tuning the Battery Aging Model

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Update on my 3 year old leaf:
Date - 9/23/2014
11 capacity bars (lost first bar in April 2014 @20,700 miles)

Delivered - Sept 11, 2011
Manufactured - July 2011

Location - Mountain View, CA
Miles/kwh - 3.9
Odometer - 23,187
Capacity - 54.6054 AHr
LeafDD "H" - 67.86

Almost always charge to 80%. Car often garaged at home -- detached garage can get warm. Battery aging model pretty close to my experience with this car, if I plug in 7 days/week in the sun (that's really an overestimation of how long it is in the sun).
 
msandeep said:
Curious - why does the Miles Per KWH change from summer to winter? I thought this metric was independent of the battery state. Is it due to heating/cooling?
hjaime said:
Air conditioning eats up battery
As does the heater. This was esp. true of the power hungry resistive heater in the '11 and '12 Leafs. I'm not clear if the '13 Leaf S' resistive heater is more efficient but the hybrid heater in the '13+ SV and SL helps for many folks.

Also, during winter, there's more likely to be rain, slush or snow, which increases rolling friction, thus reducing efficiency further.
 
The main reason is that air density increase when as temperature decrease.

cwerdna said:
msandeep said:
Curious - why does the Miles Per KWH change from summer to winter? I thought this metric was independent of the battery state. Is it due to heating/cooling?
hjaime said:
Air conditioning eats up battery
As does the heater. This was esp. true of the power hungry resistive heater in the '11 and '12 Leafs. I'm not clear if the '13 Leaf S' resistive heater is more efficient but the hybrid heater in the '13+ SV and SL helps for many folks.

Also, during winter, there's more likely to be rain, slush or snow, which increases rolling friction, thus reducing efficiency further.
 
tivollix said:
The main reason is that air density increase when as temperature decrease.
At lower speeds, air density has very little effect on energy consumption.

OTOH, when it is 10F outside, the heater might consume as much electricity as the drivetrain. This is particularly true at lower speeds, and is not influenced by the presence of a heatpump at such low temperatures.
 
Ok, I just referred to the law of physics and common sens. Also when it is 10F I am not using the cabin heater when not connected to the wall power.
Sure a 6KW heater is using 6KW when it is 10F outside, that why we have heated seats that use 50W instead...
Also many people forget that ICE car consumption can go from 50MPG in summer to 40MPG in winter, at least up North.


RegGuheert said:
tivollix said:
The main reason is that air density increase when as temperature decrease.
At lower speeds, air density has very little effect on energy consumption.

OTOH, when it is 10F outside, the heater might consume as much electricity as the drivetrain. This is particularly true at lower speeds, and is not influenced by the presence of a heatpump at such low temperatures.
 
tivollix said:
...
Sure a 6KW heater is using 6KW when it is 10F outside, that why we have heated seats that use 50W instead...
Not all LEAFs have heated seats.

And many people don't like the car cabin at 10F, even if they have heated seats.

The most significant factor on winter efficiency is heat.
Second most is snow / rain.
Air density is a much less significant factor.
 
Your are pretty sure of your affirmation but we agree on the factors. Case closed.

Not everybody is using the car the same way and it is fine.

In my case I am not using much the heater when driving to preserve range.
But what do I know, Quebec is not that cold ;)

TimLee said:
tivollix said:
...
Sure a 6KW heater is using 6KW when it is 10F outside, that why we have heated seats that use 50W instead...
Not all LEAFs have heated seats.

And many people don't like the car cabin at 10F, even if they have heated seats.

The most significant factor on winter efficiency is heat.
Second most is snow / rain.
Air density is a much less significant factor.
 
Just lost my second capacity bar. So time for an update

Manufactured - 05/11
Delivered - 6/11/11
P3227 updte - 9/14/13
Location - Sunnyvale, CA (near San Jose)
Miles/kwh - 4.2
Odometer - 32209
Capacity - 51.57
Date - 10/10/14
Parked in sun - 5 days/week in Palo Alto
 
Hello,
I lost the first batt capacity bar today.

Manufactured - 11/10
Delivered - 2/23/11
P3227 updte - 10/2/13
Location - Portland OR
Miles/kwh - 4.2
Odometer - 37514
Capacity - 55.45
Date - 11/6/14
Parked outside



 
bowthom said:
Hello,
I lost the first batt capacity bar today.

Manufactured - 11/10
Delivered - 2/23/11
P3227 update - 10/2/13
Location - Portland OR
Miles/kwh - 4.2
Odometer - 37514
Capacity - 55.45
Date - 11/6/14
Parked outside
From the Battery Aging Model:

Predicted loss: 17.67%

Actual loss: 16.3%

You are 1.37 % ahead of the Battery Aging Model. :D
 
"I lost the first batt capacity bar today.

Manufactured - 11/10
Delivered - 2/23/11
P3227 updte - 10/2/13
Location - Portland OR
Miles/kwh - 4.2
Odometer - 37514
Capacity - 55.45
Date - 11/6/14
Parked outside"

I should be so lucky! At 13K on a 2013, my cap is 55.6 Ahrs. Expect the 1st bar loss at 52-53 Ahrs and
at about 20-24K miles. Started at about 60.5 Ahrs.
 
tivollix said:
Your are pretty sure of your affirmation but we agree on the factors. Case closed.

Not everybody is using the car the same way and it is fine.

In my case I am not using much the heater when driving to preserve range.
But what do I know, Quebec is not that cold ;)
dxybmd.gif
I agree with you. Unlike air density and other friction factors (cold tire rolling resistance) and weather factors (rain, snow, wind) heater use is largely discretionary. Heater use can be reduced by preheating, the use of heated steering wheel/seats [and very few LEAFs don't have those, just 2011 models and not even all of them], and just dressing appropriately for winter.
 
I owe you some updates so here they are:

Lost my first capacity bar 2-1-14. Stats on that day were:
--Date of Manufacture 8/11
--Date of Service 6/26/12
--Date of P3227 update 7/2/13
--Geographic location - McKinney, TX 75071 (Dallas)
--Average miles/kwh for the life of your Leaf 4.6/kWh
--Current odometer reading 9761
--Current AH capacity reading from LeafDD or Leaf Battery App 53.92
--Exact date you took current odometer reading and current AH capacity 2-1-14
--Days per week parked in the sun (fractional days OK) The first 8 months it was parked out in the sun all day, every day; 0 since I purchased the car

We moved from Texas to Pennsylvania on March 27, 2014, so that's going to put a bit of a monkey wrench into your data. Degradation has slowed drastically since that time. Here's more recent stats:

--Date of Manufacture 8/11
--Date of Service 6/26/12
--Date of P3227 update 7/2/13
--Geographic location - Lords Valley, PA 18428 (Scranton is the closest "large" town)
--Average miles/kwh for the life of your Leaf 4.1/kWh
--Current odometer reading 15206
--Current AH capacity reading from LeafDD or Leaf Battery App 53.35
--Exact date you took current odometer reading and current AH capacity 11-24-2014
--Days per week parked in the sun (fractional days OK) The first 8 months it was parked out in the sun all day, every day; 0 since I purchased the car
 
I just got Leaf Spy and thought I'd supply my data on my 2013 with about 24 months of regular commuting round trip 45 miles. I'm a big fan of your work with the degradation model.

Manufactured – 5/13
Delivered - 9/27/13
P3227 update (I don’t know but it has had all its shots from the dealer)
Location – Seattle, WA
Miles/kwh – 4.8 (from dash)
Odometer - 30234
Capacity – 58.396
Date - 9/10/15
Parked in sun - 1 days/week
Note it is parked outside in Seattle during the day in partial sun during the work week. I figure that is about 1 day in the sun per week.
 
Is there any way of determining if and when my 2013 had the P3227 update?

Or would I have to ask the dealer?
 
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