Ghosn: Chevrolet Bolt “Not A Surprise”

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evnow

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http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-ghosn-chevrolet-bolt-surprise-nissan-competing-long-range-electric-car-development/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nissan CEO Ghosn: Chevrolet Bolt “Not A Surprise” – Nissan Has Competing, Long-Range Electric Car In Development

“Japanese automaker Nissan plans to introduce an electric vehicle with similar range to General Motors’ Chevrolet Bolt and Tesla Motors’ Model 3.”

Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn told reporters today at the Detroit auto show that Nissan is also planning an electric car with similar range as the Bolt concept’s 200 miles.”

“He said the introduction of the Bolt “was not a surprise.”

“Obviously we will be competing” with electric cars that get 200 miles on a battery charge, he said.”

“We are the leaders and we frankly intend to continue to be the leaders.”

“Generations of EVs coming are going to get better, less costly, lighter, more autonomous.”

“It may have even more range.”

http://blogs.wsj.com/corporate-intelligence/2015/01/12/nissan-ceo-says-leaf-electric-car-is-due-for-upgrade/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As for Nissan, Mr. Ghosn is convinced the Leaf has “significant advancements” due to its long head start in the global electric vehicle market. Noting GM’s Bolt is still as much as three years away, he says there is plenty of time to match the company’s efforts.

As for Tesla, “it is not a competitor.” Instead, “they are helping us.”
 
evnow said:
http://insideevs.com/nissan-ceo-ghosn-chevrolet-bolt-surprise-nissan-competing-long-range-electric-car-development/
Nissan CEO Ghosn: Chevrolet Bolt “Not A Surprise” – Nissan Has Competing, Long-Range Electric Car In Development

“Japanese automaker Nissan plans to introduce an electric vehicle with similar range to General Motors’ Chevrolet Bolt and Tesla Motors’ Model 3.”

Renault-Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn told reporters today at the Detroit auto show that Nissan is also planning an electric car with similar range as the Bolt concept’s 200 miles.”

“He said the introduction of the Bolt “was not a surprise.”

“Obviously we will be competing” with electric cars that get 200 miles on a battery charge, he said.”

“We are the leaders and we frankly intend to continue to be the leaders.”

“Generations of EVs coming are going to get better, less costly, lighter, more autonomous.”

“It may have even more range.”

...and the battery pack may last as long as we expect it to. ;)
 
Isn't Nissan now going following GMs lead and start using LG Chem?

http://insideevs.com/lg-chem-looks-clinch-battery-contract-next-gen-nissan-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't recall if that means a liquid TMS.
 
scottf200 said:
Isn't Nissan now going following GMs lead and start using LG Chem?

http://insideevs.com/lg-chem-looks-clinch-battery-contract-next-gen-nissan-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Don't recall if that means a liquid TMS.
That was 4 months back.

Nissan was supposed to do a supplier review and decide. We never heard anything after that - so, either everyone is keeping quite or there has been no change.
 
evnow said:
Nissan was supposed to do a supplier review and decide. We never heard anything after that - so, either everyone is keeping quite or there has been no change.

I'm sure they will all be able to make reasonably reliable batteries. They can all learn from each other. Perhaps by "they are helping us," he means that they will be using Tesla's technology in some respect. I don't think the battery manufacturer will be a huge deal. I can already see a cheaper, more reliable future there, just as we see in other rechargeable batteries. The huge deal is going to be 1) real world range and 2) rapid charging infrastructure. 1) is the bigger deal, since you can rent a car for long trips if necessary. And I bet Nissan is banking on that. If GM, Nissan, and Toyota just maintained for-pay Chademo stations at their dealerships and had them widely available, road trips would be possible. They'd need to make them available outside of dealer hours, but there are enough locations to probably work. It will be interesting to see what the future holds.
 
200mile range is a total complete game changer. though I will never buy a bolt.

GM burned us all 15 years ago. screw GM.

but 200 miles changes everything. even with 50% battery degradation you would still have a 100mile car

that means easily 200,000 miles probably a lot more before the battery would HAVE to be replaced due to too short a range.

that is 2 or 3 generations of owners at least. changes everything.

200 miles also means a drop dead range of 100 miles (5 year old battery dead of winter heater blasting at night on the highway you can still get 100 miles!!)

I won't buy another EV unless it has a 200mile range (unless I get a super cheap used one) I will just keep replacing the battery in my leaf if I have to until I can afford a 200mile range ev.
 
nerys said:
200 miles also means a drop dead range of 100 miles (5 year old battery dead of winter heater blasting at night on the highway you can still get 100 miles!!)

1 Nissan mile = .75 real miles in ideal conditions.
200 * .75 = 150 real miles.
5 year old battery = 30% degradation.
150 * .70 = 105 miles in ideal conditions after 5 years.
0F = 17.5% reduction in storage capacity.
105 * .825 = 87 miles.

And we haven't even addressed losses associated with highway driving or heater use. I'm going to guess -25 miles.

Worst case scenario: 62 miles, or roughly what you get from a brand new LEAF on the highway in 70F with climate control off. :)
 
kubel said:
1 Nissan mile = .75 real miles in ideal conditions.
200 * .75 = 150 real miles.
5 year old battery = 30% degradation.
150 * .70 = 105 miles in ideal conditions after 5 years.
0F = 17.5% reduction in storage capacity.
105 * .825 = 87 miles.

And we haven't even addressed losses associated with highway driving or heater use. I'm going to guess -25 miles.

Worst case scenario: 62 miles, or roughly what you get from a brand new LEAF on the highway in 70F with climate control off. :)

I find that the greatest impact to range is a cold battery and wind, and wind we get a hell of a lot here. I find after the initial warm up the heat pump is very efficient, consuming between 400-800 watts with a few peaks to 1Kw and sometimes it's off altogether for a bit. This is with a temp setting of 19 deg C or 66.2 F.

It's a shame Nissan chose not to use thermal management, a warm battery makes a noticeable difference and a big difference to fast charge time.

I find that after 100 Kms between 80-100 Kph or about 50-62 MPH I would want to be close to a charge point or plugged in by 110 Kms or 70 odd miles.

Once we have a real 200 miles range we won't even be worrying about efficiency and probably not about battery life either.

200 miles I would say would need at least 60 Kwh and I can't see the average car having 60 Kwh for another 10 years unless there is some major breakthrough in cost.

I honestly can't see leaf II having more than 40 Kwh max, maybe around 140 miles range or 120 in winter going by the current car.
 
o00scorpion00o said:
...
200 miles I would say would need at least 60 Kwh and I can't see the average car having 60 Kwh for another 10 years unless there is some major breakthrough in cost.
.

There are expensive cars now with 200 mile range at 60 kWh with 4-5 year old batteries.

Battery technology is giving us improvements of about 8%/year. No major breakthroughs are needed.

Lessen the weight of the car, lower the air resistance, put in batteries that have 5-7 years of improvements and I believe a 200 mile EPA range is attainable by 2017 for under 40k.
 
Zythryn said:
o00scorpion00o said:
...
200 miles I would say would need at least 60 Kwh and I can't see the average car having 60 Kwh for another 10 years unless there is some major breakthrough in cost.
.

There are expensive cars now with 200 mile range at 60 kWh with 4-5 year old batteries.

Battery technology is giving us improvements of about 8%/year. No major breakthroughs are needed.

Lessen the weight of the car, lower the air resistance, put in batteries that have 5-7 years of improvements and I believe a 200 mile EPA range is attainable by 2017 for under 40k.

Not sure the majority of non rich folk are willing to pay that kind of cash, not for a non premium vehicle anyway. 40K USD would be about 40K Euro's and probably before taxes, it would definitely have to have a German badge for it to sell here in Europe at that price.

Did GM not say the Bolt would cost under 30 K USD ? 60 Kwh for under 30 K ? I don't believe it, are GM as bad as the rest for over exaggerating their mileage claims ?

If Leaf II can have at least 40 Kwh I'd be happy with that. I could do my 84 mile round trip with no DC charging daily, however work will be installing a charge point which will eliminate the need to DC charge daily. So I could even tolerate 20% battery degradation but I don't intend keeping the leaf after the lease, I want more range and 200 miles is, imo, enough. I would prefer much faster charging, especially in winter.

I think in order to lessen the weight you need decent improvements in battery technology for 200 mile range, lighter cars with carbon fiber would be too expensive.
 
o00scorpion00o said:
Not sure the majority of non rich folk are willing to pay that kind of cash [40k], not for a non premium vehicle anyway. 40K USD would be about 40K Euro's and probably before taxes, it would definitely have to have a German badge for it to sell here in Europe at that price.

Did GM not say the Bolt would cost under 30 K USD ? 60 Kwh for under 30 K ? I don't believe it, are GM as bad as the rest for over exaggerating their mileage claims ?
...

I think in order to lessen the weight you need decent improvements in battery technology for 200 mile range, lighter cars with carbon fiber would be too expensive.

More people will be willing/able to pay $40k for a vehicle than the 70k that a 200 mile EV costs now.

GM is estimating their Bolt will cost 37k. In the U.S. after federal incentives that will be 30k.

We are getting decent improvements in battery technology. The batteries in the Leaf II will be 6-7 years more advanced than those in the first gen.
The only 200 mile EV we have as an example right now is the Tesla. Lowering its weight is fairly easy as it is a large car. No CF or such is needed.
 
Audi is already at 154 watt-hours/kg. That translates to 19.274 ounces/kg

85 KWh battery pack as this current day Audi config comes to 665 pounds - less than the Tesla pack weight!!

2-3 years from now - Tesla Gigafactory online and cost per kWh will be under $200 - likely $150.

Leaf Gen 2/3, Tesla Gen 3/4, Chevy Bolt Gen 1, Apple ICar Gen1 - all could start low end with 60 kWh packs weighing 400 pounds or less and costing $9,000 - $12,000.

With reduced battery pack weights we could easily see city driving performance of 6.0 ECO mode and highway 4.0 if the previously mentioned drag coefficient is dropped.

Ranges from this would be 360 city, and 240 highway.

A large highway minded battery pack could be opted for in the 100 kWh range and get 5.0 ECO mode city and 3.8 highway and thus have ranges of 500 city and 380 highway. This option would likely cost $10,000 extra.
 
lorenfb said:
rexki said:
2-3 years from now - Tesla Gigafactory online and cost per kWh will be under $200 - likely $150.

And you know this as reality in 2017, right?

I am not God or a prophet just a stockholder who attempts due diligence and my homework -

Here is some industry information targets that hit 2017, 2018 will only be another >=8% better

http://www.teslamotors.com/sites/default/files/blog_attachments/gigafactory.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

As far as price - GM has been selling Volt packs For 1 year - wholesale to dealerships for $133/kWh - my numbers are very conservative, they could easily be $60-100/kWh
 
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