Official Infiniti LE thread - early 2017, 60 kWh

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evnow said:
bigrob90 said:
But there is no requirement for them to put out an Infiniti at all.
There is - Nissan wants to put a competitor to Model 3.
If this is a car for EveryMan, why does it need to be an Infiniti? What does that actually gain Nissan? They would then have to invest even more money in training and installing DCFC at Infiniti dealers. I just don't see the ROI, unless they let Nissan prove the concept enough to appeal to the Infiniti dealers and, more importantly, the Infiniti customers. If Nissan goes first, I think it gives them a much better chance of succeeding at selling an Infiniti.
 
What advantage would an Infiniti EV have against a Tesla Model 3? I think Nissan has to beat Tesla on cost, because they probably won't beat them on anything else. That suggests that it would not be an Infiniti they'd be marketing. I just don't see it.
 
They need to use the Infinity name to justify the higher price even though it's not a great brand period.
 
EVDRIVER said:
They need to use the Infinity name to justify the higher price even though it's not a great brand period.
I understand the theory there. And that can work with an ICE car, with a globally available fueling system which is well understood by all parties. But I don't think the brand means much of anything in the EV world. Unless the brand is Tesla. And that's largely because of the Supercharging network. The only people who would pay a premium for an Infiniti EV it seems to me would be current Leaf buyers.
 
bigrob90 said:
EVDRIVER said:
They need to use the Infinity name to justify the higher price even though it's not a great brand period.
I understand the theory there. And that can work with an ICE car, with a globally available fueling system which is well understood by all parties. But I don't think the brand means much of anything in the EV world. Unless the brand is Tesla. And that's largely because of the Supercharging network. The only people who would pay a premium for an Infiniti EV it seems to me would be current Leaf buyers.

Plenty of people are interested in an EV but may perceive the infinity brand one they would buy over a Nissan. There are also many infinity buyers that would look at an EV with the infinity name, personally I would never buy an infinity product, It' all marketing to demographics. I think the brand is horrible for many reasons.
 
EVDRIVER said:
bigrob90 said:
EVDRIVER said:
They need to use the Infinity name to justify the higher price even though it's not a great brand period.
I understand the theory there. And that can work with an ICE car, with a globally available fueling system which is well understood by all parties. But I don't think the brand means much of anything in the EV world. Unless the brand is Tesla. And that's largely because of the Supercharging network. The only people who would pay a premium for an Infiniti EV it seems to me would be current Leaf buyers.

Plenty of people are interested in an EV but may perceive the infinity brand one they would buy over a Nissan. There are also many infinity buyers that would look at an EV with the infinity name, personally I would never buy an infinity product, It' all marketing to demographics. I think the brand is horrible for many reasons.

Since the method for refueling is new to the typical buyer, I just don't think there is any "value add" there for anyone except for those already buying EVs. And if there is really a premium, why would an EV buyer buy an Infiniti over a Tesla? That's the real question to me. Why would they? Why would an EV buyer who is already paying a premium buy *any* brand over a Tesla? Any vehicle buyer, with rare exception (and that's for the *very* high end) is going to look at the utility of the vehicle as actual transportation first. If a car is less capable of actually driving from place to place, that will take precedence over other concerns. Right now, the Teslas with supercharging are more useful as vehicles. How can another maker charge a premium over that? It's not as if Tesla is looked upon as some cheap brand. They have brand cachet already. And they have more utility. I think the other makers have to undercut them in cost, or improve upon them in utility. But time will tell, of course.
 
Many people do not even know what a Tesla is but do know what an infinity is. Many people also trust established brands and adding the infinity name allows them to justify higher pricing. If you think that everyone would buy a Tesla then you may be living in an EV bubble. Since the majority of people in the SF area own Mac computers that does not translate everywhere. Why anyone would buy a Windows machine over a Mac baffles me but there are parts of the country where it is the opposite. Perhaps they will buy an infinity, there are more Infinity dealers to do that as well. Wake me up when these two competing cars are available. Tesla has yet to prove itself in any market other than the ultra premium car market so far.
 
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2014/02/2014-car-brand-perception-survey/index.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


"The brand to watch is Tesla Motors, which jumped from 47 points last year, to fifth position and 88 points this year. Tesla had a strong, very public year, with soaring stock prices, magazine awards, sterling crash-test performance, and even claiming the spot as the top-rated car by Consumer Reports. Innovation, performance, and sleek styling is clearly gaining attention and making a positive impression. By accumulating points in several categories, Tesla was able to raise its overall score. This highlights the value of being good at multiple things, rather than relying on a single facet."


Infiniti was 9th worst with 22 points. If you think Infiniti brings more pricing power to the table than Tesla you are living in a bubble.
 
DeeAgeaux said:
http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/2014/02/2014-car-brand-perception-survey/index.htm


"The brand to watch is Tesla Motors, which jumped from 47 points last year, to fifth position and 88 points this year. Tesla had a strong, very public year, with soaring stock prices, magazine awards, sterling crash-test performance, and even claiming the spot as the top-rated car by Consumer Reports. Innovation, performance, and sleek styling is clearly gaining attention and making a positive impression. By accumulating points in several categories, Tesla was able to raise its overall score. This highlights the value of being good at multiple things, rather than relying on a single facet."


Infiniti was 9th worst with 22 points. If you think Infiniti brings more pricing power to the table than Tesla you are living in a bubble.


I think Infinity is unappealing as a brand. Not sure what pricing power they bring since I never said that but Tesla can't survive only selling $100K EVs in an emerging market. Of course they have a great product but they need to expand that line to survive or remain a niche company with no competition to survive. Infinity and Tesla buyers don't have a big crossover but there is a product slot for many products. It's much easier to build a world class high-range EV for $100K price, competing in the $30-50K range is another story, one they have yet to do yet. My guess is starting in the high 40's to low $50's before BMW style options are added to drive up the price. There will be a surprise player too I predict, one that had average cars and them made them really nice. Hint..
 
EVDRIVER said:
Why anyone would buy a Windows machine over a Mac baffles me but there are parts of the country where it is the opposite.

This one is easy - perceived value. The vast majority of people I know who choose Windows over Mac do so for the fact that the Windows machine has better specs (on paper) at a lower price. So they believe it is the better deal. They completely ignore the superior user experience of the Mac, giving it, IMHO, the better actual value.

Which EV would have the better perceived value is hard to say without knowing the specs. I suspect that the Supercharging network would give Tesla the leg up, even if the owner never uses it. On the other hand, Infiniti is an established brand which some people may simply trust more than the new kid on the block (Tesla).
 
GetOffYourGas said:
This one is easy - perceived value.
Which EV would have the better perceived value is hard to say without knowing the specs. I suspect that the Supercharging network would give Tesla the leg up, even if the owner never uses it. On the other hand, Infiniti is an established brand which some people may simply trust more than the new kid on the block (Tesla).

This is the crux of my concern. I don't think perceived value will follow the EV market quite like the ICE market at this point. It's still too new and too novel. I think the overriding issue with EVs as that market grows will be range anxiety. It will trump all other concerns. So, people will likely cross-shop cars based on the perceived range anxiety which comes with the car. That's why a Mercedes B class does not command the same sort of premium over a Leaf that a CLA does over a Versa, or an E class over a Maxima. In the cases of the ICE cars, the utility as a vehicle is essentially the same. You are paying for both luxury features and brand cachet. I think the nuts and bolts have to come to the forefront on the more exotically fueled vehicles like EVs and FCEVs. I just don't think there would be too many takers for an Infiniti with an unreliable Chademo system over a Tesla with Supercharging. The Tesla would win on brand prestige, and would win on utility. The only way, I think to overcome those two deficits is to win on cost. So, if there were an Infiniti, it really could not have much of a price premium over a Leaf. And if you can't have a significant price premium, why invest all the money in a new vehicle, new dealers, etc.?
 
bigrob90 said:
If this is a car for EveryMan, why does it need to be an Infiniti? What does that actually gain Nissan? They would then have to invest even more money in training and installing DCFC at Infiniti dealers. I just don't see the ROI, unless they let Nissan prove the concept enough to appeal to the Infiniti dealers and, more importantly, the Infiniti customers. If Nissan goes first, I think it gives them a much better chance of succeeding at selling an Infiniti.
Which car is for everyone - Model 3 or Leaf 2 or Infiniti LE ?

Clearly there is no one car that is for "everyone". Tesla will remain a premium brand and Model 3 competes with BMW 3 series. It makes perfect sense to have a competing model here by Infiniti.

If it was all about next quarter ROI, Leaf & Infiniti LE shouldn't be built. Ghosn is looking at 5 or 10 years horizon, though.
 
evnow said:
bigrob90 said:
If this is a car for EveryMan, why does it need to be an Infiniti? What does that actually gain Nissan? They would then have to invest even more money in training and installing DCFC at Infiniti dealers. I just don't see the ROI, unless they let Nissan prove the concept enough to appeal to the Infiniti dealers and, more importantly, the Infiniti customers. If Nissan goes first, I think it gives them a much better chance of succeeding at selling an Infiniti.
Which car is for everyone - Model 3 or Leaf 2 or Infiniti LE ?

Clearly there is no one car that is for "everyone". Tesla will remain a premium brand and Model 3 competes with BMW 3 series. It makes perfect sense to have a competing model here by Infiniti.

If it was all about next quarter ROI, Leaf & Infiniti LE shouldn't be built. Ghosn is looking at 5 or 10 years horizon, though.


+1
 
I'd really like to get into Ghosn's head for the skinny on that "10 year horizon..." 10 years from now? Any futurists around here? If so, Ghosn wants ya in lieu of a big paycheck.

In 10 years we may see brands that don't yet exist, folks. Charging ditto. Not to mention super-range EVs... Let us ask Hawking. Maybe he knows.
 
Infiniti Sees No Demand For Luxury Electric Cars Before 2020

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100386_infiniti-sees-no-demand-for-luxury-electric-cars-before-2020

LE is basically cancelled.

Nissan will reconsider producing an Infiniti EV for the 2020 model year a few years down the road.
 
DeeAgeaux said:
Infiniti Sees No Demand For Luxury Electric Cars Before 2020

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100386_infiniti-sees-no-demand-for-luxury-electric-cars-before-2020

LE is basically cancelled.

Nissan will reconsider producing an Infiniti EV for the 2020 model year a few years down the road.

Bad reporting. We should always consider where the comments were made - in Dubai. Is he saying they have no plans to bring infiniti EV to Dubai or anywhere in the world. The original story is very vague - GCR is speculating - and you are speculating even more.
 
evnow said:
DeeAgeaux said:
Infiniti Sees No Demand For Luxury Electric Cars Before 2020

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100386_infiniti-sees-no-demand-for-luxury-electric-cars-before-2020

LE is basically cancelled.

Nissan will reconsider producing an Infiniti EV for the 2020 model year a few years down the road.

Bad reporting. We should always consider where the comments were made - in Dubai. Is he saying they have no plans to bring infiniti EV to Dubai or anywhere in the world. The original story is very vague - GCR is speculating - and you are speculating even more.
IMO, misrepresentation, rather than speculation, more accurately describes what GCR did with this no-news story, the source it posted:


We are ready with technology to launch electric car: Infiniti
http://www.emirates247.com/news/emirates/we-are-ready-with-technology-to-launch-electric-car-infiniti-2015-10-08-1.606013
 
evnow said:
DeeAgeaux said:
Infiniti Sees No Demand For Luxury Electric Cars Before 2020

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1100386_infiniti-sees-no-demand-for-luxury-electric-cars-before-2020

LE is basically cancelled.

Nissan will reconsider producing an Infiniti EV for the 2020 model year a few years down the road.

Bad reporting. We should always consider where the comments were made - in Dubai. Is he saying they have no plans to bring infiniti EV to Dubai or anywhere in the world. The original story is very vague - GCR is speculating - and you are speculating even more.

And you are in denial.

Francois Goupil de Bouille is the vice president for Infiniti Europe,Africa, and Middle East.

Where the headquarters are for the reporting entity is irrelevant.

Yeah, a Renault-Nissan brand is going to make an Infiniti BEV but not bring it to Norway or France.
 
DeeAgeaux said:
And you are in denial.

Francois Goupil de Bouille is the vice president for Infiniti Europe,Africa, and Middle East.

Where the headquarters are for the reporting entity is irrelevant.

Yeah, a Renault-Nissan brand is going to make an Infiniti BEV but not bring it to Norway or France.
Just read the original report - and tell me you can draw the conclusions GCR drew.

ALL the recent reports say Infiniti EV will be out in '17/'18. And they are very direct reports - not some read the tea leaves, in between the lines that GCR is doing.
 
evnow said:
DeeAgeaux said:
And you are in denial.

Francois Goupil de Bouille is the vice president for Infiniti Europe,Africa, and Middle East.

Where the headquarters are for the reporting entity is irrelevant.

Yeah, a Renault-Nissan brand is going to make an Infiniti BEV but not bring it to Norway or France.
Just read the original report - and tell me you can draw the conclusions GCR drew.

ALL the recent reports say Infiniti EV will be out in '17/'18. And they are very direct reports - not some read the tea leaves, in between the lines that GCR is doing.


Yep, Infiniti LE is just around the corner.
 
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