How much mileage are you getting in this cold weather ?

I think I may lose my car this week.

My wife drove it on Monday and I pre-heated it for her before she left for work and again in the afternoon as she was leaving. Yesterday she asked where my jacket was and I told her I didn't need one* when going from warm house to warm car to warm office and back. I got a dirty look for that one.

Now she keeps asking when I have to commute again and reminds me that I should take her car for my Denver trips now. My ICE driving days are coming back it seems.

On topic comment: I used a little over half my range yesterday on trips that normally would have used about 20%. I'm going to blame the heater. Battery temp was 3 bars most of the day. I garage at night.

*I have a jacket in the car. I'm not a lunatic. When I worked at a consulting company in Wyoming, it was actually company policy to drive with jacket, boots, gloves, etc on when temps were this cold. They explained that in an accident up there, it could be an hour or more before help arrives and you would freeze to death first. That was my welcome to western weather after being born and raised in FL.

AlanSqB said:

*I have a jacket in the car. I'm not a lunatic. When I worked at a consulting company in Wyoming, it was actually company policy to drive with jacket, boots, gloves, etc on when temps were this cold. They explained that in an accident up there, it could be an hour or more before help arrives and you would freeze to death first. That was my welcome to western weather after being born and raised in FL.

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I also keep down jackets in both my cars. And a sleeping bag (and water bottle) stays in the ICE car that I use for long trips. It's just basic safety for driving in places where one might be spending the night in the car in cold weather (or desert heat).

dgpcolorado said:

AlanSqB said:

*I have a jacket in the car. I'm not a lunatic. When I worked at a consulting company in Wyoming, it was actually company policy to drive with jacket, boots, gloves, etc on when temps were this cold. They explained that in an accident up there, it could be an hour or more before help arrives and you would freeze to death first. That was my welcome to western weather after being born and raised in FL.

Click to expand...

I also keep down jackets in both my cars. And a sleeping bag (and water bottle) stays in the ICE car that I use for long trips. It's just basic safety for driving in places where one might be spending the night in the car in cold weather (or desert heat).

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A couple candles and matches (as long as they are safe enough that they won't tip easily or burn through the bottom when they get low) can also be enough to make the difference between life and death..... or set the mood.

minispeed said:

A couple candles and matches (as long as they are safe enough that they won't tip easily or burn through the bottom when they get low) can also be enough to make the difference between life and death..... or set the mood.

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As long as one remembers to remove the candles in summer so that one doesn't end up with a wax puddle...

dgpcolorado said:

AlanSqB said:

*I have a jacket in the car. I'm not a lunatic. When I worked at a consulting company in Wyoming, it was actually company policy to drive with jacket, boots, gloves, etc on when temps were this cold. They explained that in an accident up there, it could be an hour or more before help arrives and you would freeze to death first. That was my welcome to western weather after being born and raised in FL.

Click to expand...

I also keep down jackets in both my cars. And a sleeping bag (and water bottle) stays in the ICE car that I use for long trips. It's just basic safety for driving in places where one might be spending the night in the car in cold weather (or desert heat).

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Yep, do that here in CO too. Carry some protein/fats like almonds and granola bars along with some water, hats, gloves, and a blanket. I also carry around a few portable USB charger batteries. They are 16000mAh and good for 4+ full recharge cycles, or over a few days of near continuous use. In low reception areas, batteries drain fast and you don't want to be at 10% cell phone battery with 1-0 bars trying to call for help...

0F today on both ends of my commute and not much higher in between. 27 miles on 41% based on dash. Effective range of 66 miles, not bad for having heater, seat and wheel heat on. Love that steering wheel heater.

Nfuzzy said:

0F today on both ends of my commute and not much higher in between. 27 miles on 41% based on dash. Effective range of 66 miles, not bad for having heater, seat and wheel heat on. Love that steering wheel heater.

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When it's that cold do the seat heaters and steering wheel heater stay on longer? I find that they cut off and stop heating a little early.

minispeed said:

Nfuzzy said:

0F today on both ends of my commute and not much higher in between. 27 miles on 41% based on dash. Effective range of 66 miles, not bad for having heater, seat and wheel heat on. Love that steering wheel heater.

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When it's that cold do the seat heaters and steering wheel heater stay on longer? I find that they cut off and stop heating a little early.

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nope

I don't know for sure about the seat heater as I had it on low an other than the light on the switch saying it was on I wasn't paying much attention to how much heat that was giving off. The steering wheel got nice and warm, borderline hot but never stopped heating. I only had it on for maybe 25 minutes though.

Effective range of 90 miles the last couple days without running any heat, temps around 15-45F and sunny.

Nfuzzy said:

I don't know for sure about the seat heater as I had it on low an other than the light on the switch saying it was on I wasn't paying much attention to how much heat that was giving off. The steering wheel got nice and warm, borderline hot but never stopped heating. I only had it on for maybe 25 minutes though.

Effective range of 90 miles the last couple days without running any heat, temps around 15-45F and sunny.

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both run on cycles. I have mine on nearly all the time now and I think the only difference between the high and low setting on the seats is the duration of the cycle. there are times, the steering wheel seems to be off. I would rather it get less warm and stay on longer

5.4 mi/kWh today. Better than my summer average. Gotta love these summerlike January temps!

Nfuzzy said:

0F today on both ends of my commute and not much higher in between. 27 miles on 41% based on dash. Effective range of 66 miles, not bad for having heater, seat and wheel heat on. Love that steering wheel heater.

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Nice - I suspect this is a combination of newer battery and probably a better battery in the 2015s. With our 2012 LEAF, when the temps hit 0F I have to use every hypermile trick in the book, including keeping the heater off most of the time, just to squeak out 50 miles. Battery health now below 90%, although still showing all 12 bars. I recently did the 61-mile journey to Canopy at DIA in 14F temps - hypermiling all the way and NO heater and a net drop of 2000 feet of elevation - and arrived at low battery warning. Last summer I did this trip in the same car without hypermiling and had 3-4 bars left.

Since I wasn't using the heater there clearly is a tax on range caused by both a low battery temp and higher wind resistance in very cold temps. Unfortunately I didn't pre-heat (my mistake) the car before leaving - I suspect doing so would have helped range.

This will have to be our last winter with two pre-2013 LEAFs due to the range limitations in winter. I'll be turning in the leased (currently on a lease extension) 2012 LEAF by the end of 2015 to get the better battery and range.

That's actually quite reassuring that your 2012 still has that much battery capacity left. Nice to hear how local Leaf's have fared. I can hold out hope that my 2015 battery capacity does even better I suppose. I have yet to do any Denver trips in winter but really want to try out the Arapahoe quickcharge now that it seems stable.

How did your trip back from DIA go? The return trip from Denver in winter (even mild winter days) is what has me scared to try.

I still get no worse that 65 miles effective range. My normal commute is only 27mi but occasionally I do double that in snow and cold and still manage on no more than 73% battery. I use heat on lowest manual setting and eco (if at all) which is enough to take the chill out of the car and keep the windows defrosted without killing range.

Nfuzzy said:

That's actually quite reassuring that your 2012 still has that much battery capacity left. Nice to hear how local Leaf's have fared. I can hold out hope that my 2015 battery capacity does even better I suppose. I have yet to do any Denver trips in winter but really want to try out the Arapahoe quickcharge now that it seems stable.

How did your trip back from DIA go? The return trip from Denver in winter (even mild winter days) is what has me scared to try.

I still get no worse that 65 miles effective range. My normal commute is only 27mi but occasionally I do double that in snow and cold and still manage on no more than 73% battery. I use heat on lowest manual setting and eco (if at all) which is enough to take the chill out of the car and keep the windows defrosted without killing range.

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So, to answer the question, the return trip went fine. I stopped by Arapahoe Nissan and got a quick charge. Minimal heater use and hypermiling got me home. Of course, the trips takes a lot longer for those reasons, so it's not for everyone. If the QC was down my backup plan was to get to Castle Rock and do a two-hour L2 top-off at Walgreen's while using the WiFi at the next door Panera. (Plan C would have been the Castle Rock L2 chargers at the hospital. Plan D would have been call family to pick me up in Castle Rock. After a while with any non-Tesla EV you learn that long journeys require multiple contingency plans for charging.)

Nissan is completely silent on any changes they've made to the battery over time except to say that 2015s have the heat resistant battery. However, metrics collected here and elsewhere suggest that the battery changed in 2013 and it performs and lasts better than the previous one. I would be very surprised if your 2015 doesn't retain battery capacity much better than our 2012 has done. However, our 2012 is probably doing better than most LEAFs of a similar age in Denver because we live in a cooler location (about 10F lower temperatures on average than Denver), and for 2012 LEAFs heat was the biggest factor in battery degradation.

Another advantage your 2015 has is the ability to leave climate control on while turning off the resistance heater. This was introduced as a feature in 2013 and reduces the amount of heater time you need for defrosting.

cgaydos said:

This will have to be our last winter with two pre-2013 LEAFs due to the range limitations in winter. I'll be turning in the leased (currently on a lease extension) 2012 LEAF by the end of 2015 to get the better battery and range.

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I may have to re-think this. Renault/Nissan today confirmed rumors that the 2017 will have nearly double the range. Depending on when the 2017 will be available it may be worth extending the 2012 a little longer than planned.

cgaydos said:

cgaydos said:

This will have to be our last winter with two pre-2013 LEAFs due to the range limitations in winter. I'll be turning in the leased (currently on a lease extension) 2012 LEAF by the end of 2015 to get the better battery and range.

Click to expand...

I may have to re-think this. Renault/Nissan today confirmed rumors that the 2017 will have nearly double the range...

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No, Renault/Nissan did not, at least not in the link you posted, which itself is a regurgitation of this story using anonymous sources, and full of indefinite terms (google translation) such as "aim", "expected" and "approaching".

http://www.lesechos.fr/industrie-services/automobile/0204107325852-les-renault-et-nissan-electriques-rouleront-deux-fois-plus-loin-en-2017-1086627.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

On highway drives at 60-65mph in temps ranging from 10-25 degrees, I have a realistic range of about 55 miles if I use the heater very sparingly in my 2015 S. I have yet to experience warm weather driving with my leaf, as I leased it November of 2014 in Cleveland. Curious to see how it will do in the spring.