EdmondLeaf
Well-known member
sorry to hear that, so looks like only two 2011 that we know have all 12 CB
Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs
- Thread starter azdre
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Interesting, I think charging habits are the biggest difference - what do you do for charge timers now? Looking at the chart above, you lost your 12th bar within a couple weeks of when I did (Sept 2013 or after 25 months of ownership), but you lost your 11th bar around June 2014 (about 9 months) but it took me until November 2014 to lose mine (about 14 months). And you lost your 10th bar after about another 10 months (April 2015) and I have yet to lose my 10th, but at least if the distance between bars lost remains the same as losing my 11th bar, I won't lose it until the end of the year. I'm losing bars almost 50% slower than you since the 12th which is a huge difference.gbshaun said:
I don't think that temperature is the main difference here since the time to 1st bar loss on both of our cars was basically the same - I think the change in charging habits after the 12th bar loss it the main difference. I have mostly continued to baby my battery (end-timer set to 80% and 5:40am which means it stops charging at 5:00am +- 10 minutes nearly all the time) and only charge to 100% when needed.
So it seems very unlikely that I'll lose 4 bars by the time 5 years rolls around - unless this summer is extremely hot - I am working close to I15 now which is much hotter than Encinitas - but at my current capacity loss rate of 4 Ah/year I'll still have around 46 Ah by next year - about 10% less capacity than today but about 10% more than what qualifies for battery capacity warranty.
electricfuture
Well-known member
mwalsh
I am still amazed at the wide variety of battery life expectancy as I was "doing everything right" and had it replaced at 43,000 miles in a mild climate. All of the discussions seem to focus on driving habits, charging habits, and climate (temperature) but this doesn't explain the wide range of capacity losses in relatively mild climactic zones here in southern California.
I believe that elevation changes have a lot more to do with battery derogation especially when combined with high temperatures.
I suggest loading your leaf up with sand bags and driving it up steep hills - preferably on hot days and using a fast charger to re-charge.
In this way your battery will have to work much harder while your mileage will not increase significantly.
I hope you have a new battery before year end.
I am still amazed at the wide variety of battery life expectancy as I was "doing everything right" and had it replaced at 43,000 miles in a mild climate. All of the discussions seem to focus on driving habits, charging habits, and climate (temperature) but this doesn't explain the wide range of capacity losses in relatively mild climactic zones here in southern California.
I believe that elevation changes have a lot more to do with battery derogation especially when combined with high temperatures.
I suggest loading your leaf up with sand bags and driving it up steep hills - preferably on hot days and using a fast charger to re-charge.
In this way your battery will have to work much harder while your mileage will not increase significantly.
I hope you have a new battery before year end.
TimLee
Well-known member
I knew I was forgetting somethingelectricfuture said:
My 272# isn't enough load :lol:
Need twelve 100# sand bags
And lots of drives up and down the hill from the driveway at 1000 foot elevation to the bottom at about 750 :arrow:
abasile
Well-known member
At least for the 2011/2012 packs, I think what does it is not primarily the high power levels themselves, but rather the resulting, additional battery heating. Long downhill runs with continuous regenerative braking also heat the battery significantly. This was my observation when I used our LEAF to commute down/up our mountain for almost 2 years, during which time our LEAF experienced the great majority of its observed capacity loss. (These days, our LEAF is used primarily for shorter drives, the most recent exception being a trip we took out to Joshua Tree National Park in February, and in our cool, shaded 6100' environment the capacity loss is pretty slow.)electricfuture said:
elmobob
Well-known member
2012 leaf in NY driven mostly in NYC, lost my first capacity bar at 29,000 miles this past weekend. Leasing it since 4/2012. Charged to 80% except on weekends. Leaf spy pro says 71hx and 82soh, 11 QC. I have not tested range recently but I did a 62 mile trip averaging 4.4 mi kWh on a full charge down to lbw 0 bars and -- showing on GOM 2 weeks before I lost that capacity bar.
edatoakrun
Well-known member
Well, since (TTBOMK) NIkki hasn't posted it here for herself:
Nikki doesn't mention any efforts to measure actual capacity loss, other than from driving impressions, but I doubt the variation between gid-indicated and actual capacity loss would be great enough to be very noticeable in any cool-climate LEAF, anyway.
Still, with that many miles (and that kWh throughput) and frequent DC use, means the average battery temperature over the first four years might have been close to that of a LEAF that had been driven ~ half as many miles (and cycled ~ half the kWh) somewhere in the South of France (?) so if the pack still retains ~ 70% remaining capacity at > 100k miles (lets hope that the new owners keep up the reports) I think the owners should be satisfied.
https://transportevolved.com/2015/04/14/staffcar-update-after-73100-miles-our-nissan-leaf-loses-its-second-capacity-bar/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Nikki doesn't mention any efforts to measure actual capacity loss, other than from driving impressions, but I doubt the variation between gid-indicated and actual capacity loss would be great enough to be very noticeable in any cool-climate LEAF, anyway.
Still, with that many miles (and that kWh throughput) and frequent DC use, means the average battery temperature over the first four years might have been close to that of a LEAF that had been driven ~ half as many miles (and cycled ~ half the kWh) somewhere in the South of France (?) so if the pack still retains ~ 70% remaining capacity at > 100k miles (lets hope that the new owners keep up the reports) I think the owners should be satisfied.
gbshaun
Well-known member
I continued to do everything I knew (80%, not leaving fully charged, no quick charges etc) between my loss of the 12th and 11th bars, so I don't think our habits made the difference.drees said:
Indeed only AFTER losing the 11th bar did i start to not focus on those things so much.
Only since then have I HAD to charge to 100% more often simply because of the reduced capacity. However my degradation rate doesn't seem to be worse since then c/w before.
Curious what changed. I'm going with a hot summer.
Shaun
FWIW In another thread, Opencar and I found we'd been mapping each other to a remarkable degree.
Opencar. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal
1st bar lost at 27 months, 22K miles, Ahr=55.29,
2nd bar lost at 37 months 33K miles, , Ahr=51.54,
3rd bar lost at 46 months, 41K miles mo, Ahr=47.47
GBShaun. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal
Lost 1st bar at 26 months, 17k miles Ahr=55.50
Lost 2nd bar at 36 months, 25k miles Ahr=51.62
Lost 3rd bar at 45 months, 33k miles Ahr= 47.36
asimba2
Well-known member
I wish we could rename this thread "2011-2012 Early Capacity Losses" as it gives the impression this rate of degradation occurs with all Leafs, when the 2013+ seem to hold up much better. Has there been any confirmed cases of 2013+ cars that have lost a capacity bar?
dhanson865
Well-known member
asimba2 said:
yes and it was over a year ago!
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=16467" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If he/she is still driving that Leaf I'd expect them to lose the 2nd bar any day now.
I'm sure if we had a 1 bar loser in 2014 we will have tons of 2013s losing bars this summer in 2015.
We might be able to restrict the title to "2011, 2012, 2013 only" given enough data but that will have to wait until we get our first 1 bar loser made in 2014 or a considerable wait until summer or fall of 2016 to be sure the 2014 Leafs are more heat resistant.
btw what part of that Leaf number do we put in the battery loss wiki? Last 5 digits? Is there a typo in that leaf number?
Stanton
Well-known member
dhanson865 said:
Agreed: it took me almost 2 years to drop my first bar, and I live in Plano just like the above poster. Then things pick-up considerably due to the non-linear value of each capacity bar.
keydiver
Well-known member
asimba2 said:
I don't think enough time has gone by or enough data has been collected yet to be able to say "much better". Personally, I think its just wishful thinking, and only the Leafs with the 2015 Lizard battery are going to see a marked improvement. It took me almost 2 years (and 2 summers) of south Florida heat before I lost my first bar. If the 2013/2014 packs did get a slight tweak in chemistry, it may actually be unfortunate, as then it is even more unlikely that you will lose 4 bars by 5 years/60,000 miles. :?
Thanks for the clarification.gbshaun said:
But you experienced the same hot summer I did - I'm going with more freeway driving - nearly all my driving is surface or back roads at 40-55 mph - not much freeway driving, though lots of small elevation changes.gbshaun said:
My data. Received 6/11 San Diego Coastal:gbshaun said:
1st bar lost at 27 months, 22k miles, Ahr=55.25
2nd bar lost at 41 months, 34k miles, Ahr=51.56
Still have my 3rd bar at 46 months, 38k miles, Ahr=50.27
Both of you lost your 2nd bar in between Sept -> June, hardly a hot time of year for San Diego. Both of you are losing about 0.4 Ah / month consistently from the start assuming that you started with ~66 Ah. But since my first bar I'm losing under 0.3 Ah / month. Now I am working in east county where it's hotter now, but I doubt that I'll catch up. I'm still only charging to 100% about 3 days/week on a 5 am end timer.
Joining the club. Lost my first bar today at 39055 miles. Bought the car in early December 2011. Always garaged, babied to no end, no quick charging, charged to 80% only. I kept a list of the number of times I had charged to 100%, but gave that up after two years or so. Probably no more than ~30 charges to 100% total. Living in Chicago.
asimba2
Well-known member
keydiver said:
I would disagree based on the Leafspy results that are posted here. The 2013+ seem to be holding up much better after two years than the early models.
TomT
Well-known member
Agreed. There were no chemistry or battery changes in the 2013 that would led to it being any better than a 2011 or 2012...
keydiver said:
TomT said:
TomT, could you cite your source. AFAIK there have been no formal releases from Nissan that say either way but the internal murmurs seem to be that there were modifications which are believed to be improvements.
RegGuheert
Well-known member
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