DeaneG
Well-known member
Got it, thanks. I went back over the thread but missed the additional instructions. Would have been nice if Enphase didn't hide it so effectively!RegGuheert said:
Solar Edge Optimizers?
- Thread starter ELROY
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RegGuheert
Well-known member
You're welcome!DeaneG said:
Yeah, it's pretty well hidden. I also find it frustrating that they do not put a Y-axis on the graph, especially since the old site had one.
So, what kind of temperatures do you see in your inverters? My maximum temperature occurred one year ago tomorrow with one module reading 149F.
DeaneG
Well-known member
130-140F peak temperature on a 100-degree day.RegGuheert said:
RegGuheert
Well-known member
Just a couple of follow-ups to this old post:
The coming support for battery backup using the Tesla PowerWall is a nice feature of the SolarEdge system, but note that the addition of a battery will further lower the efficiency of the SolarEdge solution.
The performance of the SolarEdge inverters is inferior to the M215s, as I will discuss below. With regard to reliability, this may be true when comparing the SolarEdge product with the now-discontinued M190s, but the M215s have a field-demonstrated MTBF of approximately 1000 years, which is more than sufficient for the application. I have seen no data on the measured MTBF of the SolarEdge PowerOptimizers. The SolarEdge inverter, OTOH, only has a design lifetime of 18 years and only comes with a 12-year warranty, which is less than half the warranty provided by Enphase.Solarpro said:
I agree that the small differences in efficiency will add up to a considerable amount of efficiency over the life of the units. But the efficiency difference is NOT in the direction which you have indicated. Instead, Enphase microinverter-based systems have been demonstrated to produce over 2.5% MORE electricity than a comparable SolarEdge system. For a 10kW system in my climate, that equates to about 10 MWh less production from the SolarEdge system versus the Enphase system. At $0.20/kWh (estimated average price for electricity over the next 25 years, probably conservative) that is an additional $2000 worth of electricity harvested by the Enphase system which would be lost by the SolarEdge system. If you add in the cost of a second central inverter, then you are faced with a benefit of over $5000 by using the Enphase inverters over the life of the system.Solarpro said:
The coming support for battery backup using the Tesla PowerWall is a nice feature of the SolarEdge system, but note that the addition of a battery will further lower the efficiency of the SolarEdge solution.
DuncanCunningham
Well-known member
After reading through this, I wish I'd paid more attention in that Electronics class when I was 16. I guess I'll have to either trust an installer, make friends with an electrical engineer or learn it myself.
I spoke with the SolarEdge folks when considering another array for my home. According to them their product is basically a DC-DC converter. At low light levels the DC voltage generated by the solar panel are too low for the inverter. They have a module on each panel to jack-up voltage to a usable level as long as there is some light. The output of these modules are then sent to a special inverter to tie into and produce grid voltage. The advantages they cite are longer electric producing periods by being able to turn on earlier (first light) and stay on later, even a bit after sunset. They also say their DC-DC converter allows a panel in partial shade to produce more power than a microinverter solution.
They guaranteed a significantly higher average power production than what the Enphase solution but in the end I went with the Enphase 250watt micrometers. The cost was lower and at the time I was doing a minor home remodel. The electrician gave me a good price on his work if I paid full price on the solar installation. So considering the tax implications, this was the better deal. I am none the less very impressed with the SolarEdge technology.
They guaranteed a significantly higher average power production than what the Enphase solution but in the end I went with the Enphase 250watt micrometers. The cost was lower and at the time I was doing a minor home remodel. The electrician gave me a good price on his work if I paid full price on the solar installation. So considering the tax implications, this was the better deal. I am none the less very impressed with the SolarEdge technology.
Valdemar
Well-known member
I've just installed a 9kW system with a 10kW Solar Edge inverter/p400 optimizers, LG 300 watt panels. The reasons I chose SE above micros were already mentioned above, but here they are just in case:
1. Free per-panel monitoring portal.
2. Simpler electronics on the roof, hopefully less chance of failure where access is more difficult.
3. To minimize clipping.
4. Cost.
The inverter comes with 12-year warranty, extended warranty up to 25 years is available for purchase. Optimizers are covered for 25 years, parts and labor. Enphase doesn't cover labor.
1. Free per-panel monitoring portal.
2. Simpler electronics on the roof, hopefully less chance of failure where access is more difficult.
3. To minimize clipping.
4. Cost.
The inverter comes with 12-year warranty, extended warranty up to 25 years is available for purchase. Optimizers are covered for 25 years, parts and labor. Enphase doesn't cover labor.
chuck101
Active member
I am in the process of installing 20x 255 watt suniva panels on my south facing roof.
I am going with a single sunnyboy inverter for the following reasons:
1. Keep it simple stupid. More gear is more chance for breaking.
2. My roof gets good sun without shading
3. I am trying to do this as easily to install, maintain and as low cost as possible while purchasing good parts.
4. I will be installing off this myself with help from dad, who is licensed electrician in my state.
5. Nothing proprietary
All said and done, I will have a 5kw system for just over $5 grand installed.
This is before the 30% federal rebate, which will take it down to $3500. At this price, it will pay for itself in 3 years max.
It is all about perspective.
I am going with a single sunnyboy inverter for the following reasons:
1. Keep it simple stupid. More gear is more chance for breaking.
2. My roof gets good sun without shading
3. I am trying to do this as easily to install, maintain and as low cost as possible while purchasing good parts.
4. I will be installing off this myself with help from dad, who is licensed electrician in my state.
5. Nothing proprietary
All said and done, I will have a 5kw system for just over $5 grand installed.
This is before the 30% federal rebate, which will take it down to $3500. At this price, it will pay for itself in 3 years max.
It is all about perspective.
Valdemar
Well-known member
chuck101 said:
Another perspective is that SE with optimizers or micros will produce more energy over long term than a simple string inverter even in a situation with no shading, so you may save up front but get less benefit over useful life of your system which is more than 20 years. Not to mention you can easily identify an underperforming panel with SE/Micros, and it can go unnoticed for long time with a string inverter. Given you're saving a lot on labor already and likely will later on repairs, and your relatively low panel count I see little reason not to spend a little more for micros to get the benefits, just my 2c.
chuck101
Active member
After 3 years, I am on the gravy train even if my system makes 20 watts. (It won't, but for our conversation's sake.)
I see your point, but a different setup is unnecessary for me per the points I posed. Just saying.
Simple is good. Cheap is good. 3 year payoff is excellent, and I personally think somewhat unheard of in a state with no rebate.
I was quoted 17k installed from local installers for this same system.
I see your point, but a different setup is unnecessary for me per the points I posed. Just saying.
Simple is good. Cheap is good. 3 year payoff is excellent, and I personally think somewhat unheard of in a state with no rebate.
I was quoted 17k installed from local installers for this same system.
Valdemar
Well-known member
chuck101 said:
Close to $1/watt DC is really good, so good that I think you're missing something in your calculations.
chuck101
Active member
I got a swinging deal on the panels from a guy exiting the solar business. 2k for 16 panels plus some various installation brackets and pieces.
3000 for the rest of the install parts and the sunnyboy inverter. Could have gotten a cheaper inverter, but chose the sunny boy that outputs AC for running some household items from the panels directly in a pinch.
I do need to buy 4 more panels, you are right. I am just a bit off for not factoring those panels.
3000 for the rest of the install parts and the sunnyboy inverter. Could have gotten a cheaper inverter, but chose the sunny boy that outputs AC for running some household items from the panels directly in a pinch.
I do need to buy 4 more panels, you are right. I am just a bit off for not factoring those panels.
chuck101 said:
Unless you are cutting corners on the proper balance of system components and are getting the panels for practically nothing $1 a watt seems really low.
As a non electrician a central Inverter with DC wiring makes the install a lot more complicated as the rules for DC wiring are much more complicated but as your father is a electrician I'm sure he'll have no problem with that but IMO it's a bit of a challenge for a DIYer.
chuck101
Active member
No corners are being cut, quite the contrary. I am using good parts, better than I need to. See above:
"I got a swinging deal on the panels from a guy exiting the solar business. $2k for 16 panels plus some various installation brackets and pieces."
"I got a swinging deal on the panels from a guy exiting the solar business. $2k for 16 panels plus some various installation brackets and pieces."
chuck101 said:
So another maybe another $1200 if you can't' find them local. FWIW my price for SUNIVA, 270W PV MODULE, H4, PV WIRE, 40MM CLEAR FRAME, 60 CELL MONO, 15A FUSE, 600VDC, 240.3 PTC, OPT270-60-4-100-H4-40MM is $261.90
So will end up more like $1.25 a watt which is still really low considering those panels are nearly a $1 watt. I'm not sure what rules of thumbs installers use but something like $1 a watt for panels, $.5 for inverters and $.25 for the balance of the system seems like a reasonable rule of thumb these days, obviously with lots of variation based on what components are used, type of install, etc.
Valdemar
Well-known member
Are the permits included in this cost? Probably not much but still another expense.
