Leaf Spy Lite

shalvak said:

...Isn't it illicit to use an OBD-Connector during the drive without an ECE-marking? As far as i know you haven't the full insurance in case of an accident. I don't want to charge you, but is has to be 100 % "bulletproof" in my project, in order to realize it. Is there any work-around?

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I have no idea about the requirements in your location in Germany.
Please update your profile location to Germany or specific town in Germany.

For LEAF Spy or LEAF Spy Pro to get data it has to query the CAR-CAN in real time to see and with Pro store the data.
All the vehicle CAN are still functioning and whatever information that the vehicle stores for purposes of post accident investigation that an insurance provider may require in some jurisdictions should still be there.

I am not familiar with the ECE marking, although it may be the European electronic standards organization certification.
Can you provide more info on ECE, what it certifies, and whether your jurisdiction requires it?
If required, you may be able to buy an adapter with ECE.
But it may be more expensive than the cheap China produced devices.

Thank you for your answer.

I can't serve with a link to the ECE-regulations, because there are many laws and guidelines regarding the ECE / OBD standards. However, the point in this regulation is, that you can't be completely sure, that your OBD-device isn't writing something on the CAN-bus of your vehicle, which could cause an accident, hypothetical spoken. Therefore the insurance of the car won't pay because it was a negligently action, which led to the accident.

I know, that this is very hypothetical and i've never heard about an OBD-device causing an accident. Because of this my question was if the OBD-device has to be plugged during the drive.

There are one or two OBD-devices which have this special regulation. The price is (of course) much higher, but the main problem is the compatibility. As far as i know, the device has to use version 1.5 and not 2.1 in order to work correctly, which isn't the case unfortunately.

Is there any other possibility to store the SOC of the vehicle without an OBD-device plugged in during driving?

Thank you

shalvak said:

...
Is there any other possibility to store the SOC of the vehicle without an OBD-device plugged in during driving?
...

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No.
It is real time data.
LEAF only stores some things.
It does not store a huge amount of data that you can download at a later point.

But none of the devices available write to the CAN as far as I know.
Most send data requests.
A few older devices were passive and just listened.

shalvak said:

TimLee said:

shalvak said:

Hi,

I have a question regarding Leaf Spy (Pro) and the option to log data. Does the OBD-Conntector have to be plugged in during the drive or is it fine to plug it after the drive?

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Has to be connected during the drive.

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Thank you for your answer. Isn't it illicit to use an OBD-Connector during the drive without an ECE-marking? As far as i know you haven't the full insurance in case of an accident. I don't want to charge you, but is has to be 100 % "bulletproof" in my project, in order to realize it. Is there any work-around?

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(I see you have answered my questions above as I was writing this.)
Your going to need to provide a reference for the statement "Isn't it illicit to use an OBD-Connector during the drive without an ECE-marking? ". Sounds like you heard it is true and want confirmation. Where did you get that idea from?

A quick search turns up only that it is used for tires, window glass, car seats, seat belts, helmets and things like that. The actual marking appears to be capital E followed by a number indicating the area of the car. For glass on the Leaf I see E6.

The original purpose of the OBDII port was to monitor emission controls to verify compliance. To do this the car must be driven.

I see no ECE marking on any of the official OBDII tools I have access to only an FCC and CE mark most likely for the Bluetooth/WiFi. The same goes for all the various OBDII adapters, only FCC and CE markings.

But of course it is the responsibility of the person using the vehicle to be sure they are in compliance with any local regulations. You should probably make inquires to a local OBDII adapter supplier to see if an ECE approved one is even made.

Please post back here your findings.

shalvak said:

There are one or two OBD-devices which have this special regulation. The price is (of course) much higher, but the main problem is the compatibility. As far as i know, the device has to use version 1.5 and not 2.1 in order to work correctly, which isn't the case unfortunately.

Is there any other possibility to store the SOC of the vehicle without an OBD-device plugged in during driving?

Thank you

Click to expand...

There is no problem working with a real device that supports version 2.1. As a real v2.1 device would support all the v1.5 commands.

The problem is a lot of the OBDII adapters coming from Asia are listed as v2.1 but are really v1.5 with less commands.

A real v2.1 will work just fine. Sound like that is what you need to be in compliance in you area.

Can you supply a link to such an OBDII adapter?

shalvak said:

I can't serve with a link to the ECE-regulations, because there are many laws and guidelines regarding the ECE / OBD standards. However, the point in this regulation is, that you can't be completely sure, that your OBD-device isn't writing something on the CAN-bus of your vehicle, which could cause an accident, hypothetical spoken. Therefore the insurance of the car won't pay because it was a negligently action, which led to the accident.

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If you continue this logic the insurance company can also claim the driver was negligent and caused the accident if no proof is required. We "can't be completely sure" can we? Drivers have been known to press the accelerator instead of the brake. So it is possible.

I would be very interested in understanding how an ECE (not CE) approved/compliant OBDII adapter differs from your typical adapter. If you can provide a link I might get one to analyze.

Are we saying an ECE OBDII adapter would be allowed while driving and therefore in some way prevents unsafe OBDII behavior?

This document covers OBD. Have not read it yet.
http://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29wgs/wp29gen/wp29registry/ECE-TRANS-180a5e.pdf

Seems to only deal with the car side of the OBD. Nothing on adapters a search could find. Lots on emissions.

Here is the page with links to all the specs. OBD is No. 5
http://www.unece.org/trans/main/wp29/wp29wgs/wp29gen/wp29glob_registry.html

First of all, i want to thank you for your huge and helpful feedback.
I know, that the risk, that an OBD-connector cause an accident is virtually 0%. So i wouldn't care to use this in my private car. But if you want to use this in a leased car with 25-35 drivers in a case study you have to fulfill the regulations.

The actual question is, if the OBD-system itself is capable of influencing the car or not. If the manufacturer have to guarantee, that the installed OBD-system is safe, it wouldn't be a problem to use an OBD-connector. I also read that a writing process is only allowed in standstill. I have already spend some time in researching, but as you already mentioned, there are documents regarding the ECE-regulations + so called ISO-regulations.

I didn't find anything explicit saying, that an OBD-connector has to fulfill the e-regulations, but on the other hand i also didn't find that a charging cable has to fullfill it, but is has to. The regulation is written in a way, saying that all parts of the car, installed by the manufacturer or the owner has to have the regulation.

As far as i know there are only two products with an e-regulation. The reason is, that it is obviously expensive to get one.
https://drivedeck.de/shop.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (only in german)
https://buy.garmin.com/en-GB/GB/shop-by-accesories/ecoroute-services/garmin-mechanic-with-ecoroute-hd/prod38354.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

The compatibility with other software than the one of the manufacturer is questionable.

I was unable to find on those links where either adapter have an "e-regulation". Can you point me to it? The first one is for iOS which always cost more due to Apple certification for Bluetooth approved devices. iOS Bluetooth adapters run over $100 in the US.

I could understand better if we could actually find an "e-regulation" that covers attached devices to OBDII (not the OBDII socket or the car side). At the moment I think all we have is speculation.

Hi,

you can find the information here:
https://drivedeck.de/produkte/drivedeckpro/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"Selbstverständlich besitzt er eine ECE-Zulassung für den Betrieb in Fahrzeugen auf öffentlichen Straßen. "

which means it has an ECE-regulation.

I've found another very interesting peace of information (ISO 15031-3:2004(E) , §4.5):
"Attachment of any external test equipment to the vehicle connector shall not preclude normal physical and electrical operation of the vehicle."

The manufacturers itself don't want to allow external devices, because this would weaken their own after sales program. But the EU-laws of free competition and non-discrimination grant the right to use it. With the ISO from above, the manufacturer has to care about the safety of the OBD-system and all other systems attached to it.

I've gone through 3 obd2 adapters that all got the "command not found -- use v 1.5" message.
I just ordered a 4th. They're only $10-15, but I'd just like to get something that works.
Do you have a link to a known good connecter?
Thanks
Don

I bought this and it works find with my Android phone and Leaf Spy (Lite and Pro):
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AAOOQJC/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ($11.39 with Prime shipping).

Because it was recommended somewhere, I also bought this OBD II "Y" splitter: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HJAMBI8/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
It allows me to tuck the OBD II adapter up out of the way.

I have tested one unit of this model and it works fine. It is also fairly short so no need for a cable to get it out of the way of your leg. Available from Amazon Prime for $21.99.

http://www.amazon.com/CHEERLINK®-KO...28621632&sr=8-1&keywords=konnwei+kw902+elm327

I use this one which cost $6.75 and was easy to disassemble as it is just snapped together at the base. Use a thin knife blade or Xacto blade to pry it apart.

Rewired it by cutting pin 16 and soldering pin 8 to the pin 16 stub on the board. Cut away the snap at pin 16 to get access. This puts the unit on the Leaf's switched 12V.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Interfuse-Mini-Car-Diagnostic-Scanner-ELM327-v1-5-OBDII-Bluetooth-for-Android-J1-/301590811200?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4638369240" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Agkirk said:

I use this one which cost $6.75 and was easy to disassemble as it is just snapped together at the base. Use a thin knife blade or Xacto blade to pry it apart.

Rewired it by cutting pin 16 and soldering pin 8 to the pin 16 stub on the board. Cut away the snap at pin 16 to get access. This puts the unit on the Leaf's switched 12V.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Interfuse-Mini-Car-Diagnostic-Scanner-ELM327-v1-5-OBDII-Bluetooth-for-Android-J1-/301590811200?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4638369240" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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I bought a couple of these for testing. Here is what they look like inside. Note only snap clips hold it together.


Note that the case could be made half the size. Due to the oversized case the three LEDs on the board are not visible with the case on.

This adapter works with LeafSpy because it still uses a separate Bluetooth daughter board and on the back side there is a PIC processor that handles all the CAN commands.

The ELM327s that don't work with LeafSpy have dropped the PIC processor and integrated the CAN code into the Bluetooth CPU. In the process of making it all fit in one processor they dropped the commands needed to communicate with the Leaf. Then relabeled their cost reduced ELM327 as version 2.1 which it is clearly not, not even a v1.5 after they dropped the commands. Unfortunately you can not tell which ELM you have (PIC or no PIC) unless you open it up or run LeafSpy.

newbieish question:

Can I use leafspy while on a Chademo charger to watch charge percentages and/or do anything else it can do?

Can I use leafspy while on a J1772 charger to watch charge percentages and/or do anything else it can do?

or put another way is the ODBII port active during charging sessions?

I'm about to go look at a used leaf and I'm trying to figure out how much time to spend on doing things before I charge it up. I want to test charging before I buy and if I can do all my leafspying during a charge session that would save some time and hassle.

dhanson865 said:

newbieish question:

Can I use leafspy while on a Chademo charger to watch charge percentages and/or do anything else it can do?

Can I use leafspy while on a J1772 charger to watch charge percentages and/or do anything else it can do?

or put another way is the ODBII port active during charging sessions?

I'm about to go look at a used leaf and I'm trying to figure out how much time to spend on doing things before I charge it up. I want to test charging before I buy and if I can do all my leafspying during a charge session that would save some time and hassle.

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Yes, you can use LeafSpy to monitor a charge (QC or L1/L2). With LeafSpy or LeafSpy Pro you can also create a graph while it charges. Here is one for a QC. A csv file can be saved for later viewing or analysis.

With the newer Leafs you may need to turn on the Leaf after starting a charge so LeafSpy can start collecting data and once started then the Leaf can be turned off for the remainder of the charge cycle.

I thought running the car while charging was not recommended. I have tried the LeafSpy, not running, during charge with no success. I did not want to go to run even for short time unless ok. I assume on a hot day, the run time has to small or the battery heating with running and charging could cause problems.

mjblazin said:

I thought running the car while charging was not recommended. I have tried the LeafSpy, not running, during charge with no success. I did not want to go to run even for short time unless ok. I assume on a hot day, the run time has to small or the battery heating with running and charging could cause problems.

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There is no problem turning the Leaf on while charging. In this case it would only be on for a few seconds to wake up the VCM so LeafSpy can talk to it. Once the VCM is awake and responding to LeafSpy commands you can turn the Leaf off and the VCM will stay awake.

This only became necessary with the 2013 Leaf. On 2011/12 Leafs the VCM will stay awake during charging so you don't need to wake it up.

I did turn on the car after I started charging. I established connection long enough to see one gid added. I then got a warning message to turn off the vehicle during charge. The connection continued for about 15 seconds and then broke.

mjblazin said:

I did turn on the car after I started charging. I established connection long enough to see one gid added. I then got a warning message to turn off the vehicle during charge. The connection continued for about 15 seconds and then broke.

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Must be a new message for 2013 and newer Leafs.

I assume you are using the latest version of LeafSpy Lite.

LeafSpy Lite should have the code to keep the VCM active. I will need to find a 2013 or newer Leaf to test to see what is going on.

If you could enable taking an ELM trace and send the trace file to the email address on the About screen that would help. Go to the bottom of the Settings screen and check the "Trace ELM (on restart)" checkbox. Then exit and restart the app and try to stay connected while charging again. Then send me the TRC_xxxx.txt file you find in LEAF_BT_CAN/DEBUG_FILES directory. When logging is active you should see the word "LOGGING" flash on the center bottom of the screen.