Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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RegGuheert said:
QueenBee said:
AFAIK there have been no formal releases from Nissan that say either way but the internal murmurs seem to be that there were modifications which are believed to be improvements.
From here:
RegGuheert said:
Some notes on the 2013 battery:

- The module case was modifiied to reduce weight and materials used. They claimed a 30 kg weight reduction for the LEAF battery just from that change.
- The changes to the 2013 battery module chemistry were mainly intended to reduce cost. (There has been some mention of improvements in thermal capabilities, but the battery experts did not confirm that. They indicated there may be small changes in battery characteristics, but weight and cost were the two major changes.)
- The 2013 battery modules are compatible with the 2012/2012 LEAFs.
That said, I don't believe battery changes always occur at changes in the model year. In other words, I don't think we can say that all MY2013 LEAFs use the same battery chemistry.

Depending on what one includes in cost that may include reducing warranty claims by decreasing capacity at a lower rate than previous ones but that's just my wishful thinking.
 
QueenBee said:
Depending on what one includes in cost that may include reducing warranty claims by decreasing capacity at a lower rate than previous ones but that's just my wishful thinking.

I guess that all depends on where you live. As I said in another post, those 2013 tweaks that slowed the degradation may actually be bad news for 2013/2014 owners in hot climates who might have just barely qualified for a new Lizard battery if they had the older chemistry, but now they won't. The NEC paper referenced elsewhere doesn't really indicate that any of the tweaks were to fix the heat degradation issue, just anode/cathode degradation from acid damage, if I recall. If I lived in a hot climate, which I do, I would much rather have the 2015 Lizard chemistry. For you northerners, the 2013 tweaks look really great! :)
 
If I lived in a hot climate, which I do, I would much rather have the 2015 Lizard chemistry. For you northerners, the 2013 tweaks look really great!

I live in Tucson and have a 2015 SL. My dealer who did my lease said she never heard of Lizard battery. Just what is it, and what does it do? Thanks so much.
 
Rauv said:
You mean you didn't read the previous 720 pages?!

Lots of them. But there is a separate thread on Lizard batteries, but it only discussed when they would be installed. Not a word on what they are, or what they do.
 
She probably never heard of it because it is MNL slang for the new battery chemistry that Nissan introduced in the 2015 Leaf. It is said to be much more heat tolerant, which was the BIG FAIL of the 2011/2012 chemistry, so someone nicknamed it the "Lizard" battery. ;)
 
keydiver said:
She probably never heard of it because it is MNL slang for the new battery chemistry that Nissan introduced in the 2015 Leaf. It is said to be much more heat tolerant, which was the BIG FAIL of the 2011/2012 chemistry, so someone nicknamed it the "Lizard" battery. ;)

Well living in Tucson I can give reports. My first Leaf lost a bar at 6771 miles, so I will see how this one does. Still love the car, but I am glad I switched to a lease. Much more peace of mind.
 
^^^
I've started http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=19667" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; to collect '13-'14 Leaf capacity bar losers.

We'll need a '15+ (lizard battery) thread when one of those loses a bar. Hopefully, that should be at least 2+ years away, hopefully longer.
 
Our LEAF lost its second bar a week ago, at about 54500 miles and four years of ownership. At this rate, it'll be at least another three years before it's down by "four bars". With less capacity, it's used for fewer longer drives, though we did manage to take it camping at Joshua Tree National Park in February and use the solar-powered DC charger (http://api.plugshare.com/view/location/57014" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;). Generally, it stays on this cool mountain, in our cooler micro-climate, and gets parked in a driveway that's in shade most hours (with no shortage of sap dropping from the pines). Relatively ideal climate/environment for a 2011 battery.

One day, we hope, our LEAF will be joined by a "pre-owned" Tesla S or X.
 
DesertDenizen said:
... My dealer who did my lease said she never heard of Lizard battery. Just what is it, and what does it do? ...
Your dealer is clueless partly because Nissan never formally announced the heat resistant LEAF battery which people on MNL nicknamed Lizard.

They first communicated information about it in a dinner they hosted in Phoenix in August 2013.
Only MNL Nissan announcement about it being in 2015 LEAF was in June 2014 when they announced they would sell them as replacement pack with trade in of old pack.

Has slightly different chemistry with special trace amounts of chemicals that reduce capacity degradation rate.
Very good thread about battery testing and what can be significant impact of certain chemicals is at:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=15796#p352669" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Has link to excellent training presentation from Professor Jeff Dahn of Dalhousie University.
 
DesertDenizen said:
If I lived in a hot climate, which I do, I would much rather have the 2015 Lizard chemistry. For you northerners, the 2013 tweaks look really great!

I live in Tucson and have a 2015 SL. My dealer who did my lease said she never heard of Lizard battery. Just what is it, and what does it do? Thanks so much.
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=17168" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 
As a followup to this post:
ahagge said:
LEAF # 5175 (delivered: 07/02/11) lost its 4th capacity bar on March 27th:

GIDS: 177
SOC: 91.75
AHr: 43.191
Hx: 44.74
SOH: 65
Mileage: 58,995

I've opened a case with Nissan Customer service and will be visiting my local dealer tomorrow to get the battery report to document the case and give them the authorization to order the new battery and retrofit kit.

I'm happy to report that after a 4 week wait, my new battery has been installed and I now have all 12 capacity bars back. :D Here's the stats from my old battery just before I went to the dealership for the swap (and yes, the numbers DID actually climb up a bit from previous readings, but I never regained the 9th capacity bar):

Code:
GIDS: 183
SOC: 94.38
AHr: 43.296
Hx: 44.9
SOH: 66
Mileage: 60,351

And with the new pack:

Code:
GIDS: 270
SOC: 90.173
AHr: 66.14
Hx: 100.4
SOH: 100
Mileage: 60,465
I'm hopeful that these numbers will climb a bit as the battery pack gets a few charges on it, and that it eventually makes it back up to at least 281, if not closer to the 290 that some of the 2015 drivers are reporting. If anyone's interested, I'll post another update in a month or so.

Now to get another entry in the 100+ mile club!
 
mwalsh said:
Although we believe that bar 9 could disappear at around 43.25AHr on the high side, I can't find anyone who has actually lost it at that reading. ahagee's 43.19AHr is the highest reported I can actually find with a search, with brettcgb's 41.77AHr being the lowest reported.

Spread now 43.56 AHr (jpvleaf) on the high side and 41.77 AHr (brettcgb) on the low side.
 
I updated the wiki to add a Model Year column so we can mark the 2013 and newer as they come in. I need help finding entries that haven't been added yet and adding model years if you already have an entry.
 
Here are mine when I dropped the fourth bar on 13Mar2015:

Code:
GIDS: 187
AHr: 43.47
SOH: 66%
HX: 45.29%
Mileage: 59,983

And with the new pack on 22May2015 shortly after I got the car back on 7May2015:

Code:
GIDS: 291
AHr: 68.74
SOH: 103%
Hx: 102.64%
Mileage: 60,221
Battery part number rev: F
 
dhanson865 said:
I updated the wiki to add a Model Year column so we can mark the 2013 and newer as they come in. I need help finding entries that haven't been added yet and adding model years if you already have an entry.

I wish LEAFSpy would be automatically uploading data so there was no manual reporting of this stuff.
 
TomT said:
...And with the new pack on 22May2015 shortly after I got the car back on 7May2015:

Code:
GIDS: 291
AHr: 68.74
SOH: 103%
Hx: 102.64%
Mileage: 60,221
Battery part number rev: F
68.74 Ahrs, wow!

I thought you were going to get rid of your LEAF at lease end. Chose otherwise?
 
Interesting. We both have the same climate. So my higher mileage and/or QCs got me to the same capacity 5 months sooner. Doesn't seem like any of these batteries will last 5 years with 9 capacity bars in our climate.

TomT said:
Here are mine when I dropped the fourth bar on 13Mar2015:

Code:
GIDS: 187
AHr: 43.47
SOH: 66%
HX: 45.29%
Mileage: 59,983

And with the new pack on 22May2015 shortly after I got the car back on 7May2015:

Code:
GIDS: 291
AHr: 68.74
SOH: 103%
Hx: 102.64%
Mileage: 60,221
Battery part number rev: F
 
Yep, I planned to and actually had the turn-in date set. Two days before, I dropped the fourth bar as I backed out of the driveway at 59,983 miles... So, I thought about it a bit, and had it towed to Nissan who confirmed with corporate that I was indeed entitled to a new battery (I had opted back in earlier). I then called Nissan Finance who said I could cancel the turn-in if I wanted to and extent the lease on a month by month basis. At that point I negotiated the two months lease credit and a third month by grinding them a little since my car would be out of service for a while while the new battery was ordered and installed (they also gave me a loaner Altima)... So, I told them OK and here we are. It gives me a brand new Lizard battery, three months free, and some time to see what cars the future brings...

I am still amazed that I dropped the fourth bar just before the warranty ended at 60K as I was not expecting that based on the numbers! Geez, 17 miles short!

dgpcolorado said:
I thought you were going to get rid of your LEAF at lease end. Chose otherwise?
 
91040 said:
Interesting. We both have the same climate. So my higher mileage and/or QCs got me to the same capacity 5 months sooner. Doesn't seem like any of these batteries will last 5 years with 9 capacity bars in our climate.
Unfortunately, not true. Four year anniversary coming up in 2 weeks, 40,000 miles, capacity - 51.31 Ah. I figure I won't drop the 4th bar for about 2 years, perhaps a bit longer. No Lizard for me, unless I decide to purchase.
 
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