Capacity Loss on 2011-2012 LEAFs

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NissanLeafCamper said:
What about loading it up to maximum load capacity, running it in 'D'rag mode plus also sleeping inside with the A/C on constantly? Wouldn't that constant demand of charging and discharging the battery cause it some degradation? Or would that only destroy the motor/A/C unit? :arrow:


On a 2011/12...the opposite - getting as close as you dare to naked and then cranking the heat to 90 degrees. Assuming you're already in a place where the ambients are below 90, of course.

But as you do get close to 90, the climate control gets more efficient when all it has to do is maintain temperature, so be aware of that.
 
All of us here have better ways to spend our time than endlessly trying to cycle LEAF batteries. Going out of my way to accelerate degradation isn't my cup of tea, and it's too late for me anyway. At 57K miles and 10/12 battery bars, I have zero expectation of a warranty replacement unless perhaps the pack fails before 100K miles / 8 years, which is doubtful.

To expand on earlier statements, if a pre-2015 LEAF battery is going to degrade anyway, one might as well enjoy driving the car. While driving locally and not range constrained, one can appreciate the fact that, while a LEAF is no Tesla, it can accelerate up hills in a seemingly effortless manner. Here in the mountains, we regularly get visitors who feel they need to slow to 25mph for every curve. From time to time, one of those visitors will actually use a turnout, thus allowing a following LEAF driver to instantaneously pull 80 kW and blissfully accelerate to the desired speed in silence, without so much as a gear change. Admittedly this practice is somewhat wasteful, but far less so than if driving an ICE, and there is certainly value in being able to enjoy life.
 
TomT said:
The A/C is actually quite efficient, especially on the 2011 and 2012 cars, and doesn't pull that much energy... Running it in D mode or at maximum capacity is not going to have much affect...

True that...and a great thing in Texas!
 
Dropped my second capacity bar today. Car was manufactured August, 2011; been in my possession 40 months; 33495 miles. LEAF DD shows me at full charge AHr: 51.2598; Hx: 72.80; 90.9619% at full charge; 391v. Heres to hoping it keeps the downward trend over the next 20 months.. Think if I do make the warranty it will be by the skin of my teeth.
 
mwalsh said:
IMHO, pack heat is (nearly) all that matters (calendar losses too). Unless you can keep pack temps above capacity loss thresholds nothing else that you'd except to encourage it has much (if any) effect.
I agree.
Capacity loss is only significant if the pack is above 90F in my experience.

That mostly happens when the outside temperatures are above 90F.

In those conditions and driving the LEAF fast and then charging back to 100% it is easy to see the highest battery temperature at 109F.
Capacity is really dropping at that point.
Could possibly see 0.5 Ah drop in a single day.

But the LEAF battery is like your cell phone in that it also heats up when heavily discharged.
Temperature climbs quite a bit in dropping from Low Battery Warning to Turtle at 0.4 kWh remaining.
Not much temperature climb after Turtle because High Voltage Disconnect occurs at 0.3 kWh remaining.

Want to lose capacity?
You need high ambients, then drive it hard, deep discharge to Turtle, then charge back to 100% (using DCQC if available).
Repeat as much as you can on high ambient days.

Just be careful.
If you over do it, you could put the temperature into the red zone.
 
I don't discharge mine to turtle, but usually dip a good way past LBW. Then charge it back to 100% in direct sunlight. I usually see pack temps in the 104/105 range with summer in full swing though. Wanted to DCQC it yesterday but didn't need to so didn't do it. At $5 a pop unless I actually need to do it I am not going to.
 
Roadburner440 said:
Dropped my second capacity bar today. Car was manufactured August, 2011; been in my possession 40 months; 33495 miles. LEAF DD shows me at full charge AHr: 51.2598; Hx: 72.80; 90.9619% at full charge; 391v.
Even though my AHr reading is a bit higher than yours at about 53.1, my Hx number is much lower at 64.0%. I wonder why. Have you had the P3227 update? (I have.) How many quick charges do you have on your LEAF? (I only have 3.) I suspect that the quick charges reduce the resistance of the pack, so if you have many, that might make a difference.
 
I do have the P3227 update. Only done 1 quick charge ever on the car. Was the only time I have ever found a station around here working. Was about to do a DCQC for the second time the other day, but wound up not needing it. At $5 won't be a regular occurrence except for emergencies. Other than that just straight L2 charging its entire life.
 
RegGuheert said:
Roadburner440 said:
Dropped my second capacity bar today. Car was manufactured August, 2011; been in my possession 40 months; 33495 miles. LEAF DD shows me at full charge AHr: 51.2598; Hx: 72.80; 90.9619% at full charge; 391v.
Even though my AHr reading is a bit higher than yours at about 53.1, my Hx number is much lower at 64.0%. I wonder why. Have you had the P3227 update? (I have.) How many quick charges do you have on your LEAF? (I only have 3.) I suspect that the quick charges reduce the resistance of the pack, so if you have many, that might make a difference.
Well, it's my time to report in. I dropped my 2nd bar yesterday (just shy of 4 yrs) after a blistering summer (well, it's not done yet, but we had 111 F in June and will have broken just about every record). I charged to 100% and let it sit for a couple of hours at 95 F, so that must have pushed it over. I had 11 bars after the charge and couple mile drive, but then on 10 bars on the next start up. This morning I pulled the LeafSpy stats (but not at 100% SOC: 51.67 Ahr, 78% SOH, 60.60% Hx, 63.6% SOC, 3.987 V, 82 F, and just a touch over 28,000 miles. Based on my linear decay curve since my 1st bar dropped around 5/28/15, it looks like I'm scheduled for losing bar #3 right around the 5 yr mark. I've done two long trips with lots of DCQCs, in the previous two summers. Probably no more of those for me. This Leaf is now strictly for in-town use as the closest DCQC is 85 mi away.
 
As of August 1st 2015 we lost our second bar. We now sit at 51.51Ahr, 78%SOH and Hx 60.23%, 37,016 miles, 3245 L1/L2 charges and 0 DCQC charges.

Not likely to lose the other two in the next 8 months, but you never know.

palmermd said:
... As of today, 1st of June 2014 we have 54.91Ahr SOH 83% and Hx 68.63%, 25,382 miles, 1890 L1/L2 charges and 0 DCQC charges. ...
 
palmermd said:
As of August 1st 2015 we lost our second bar. We now sit at 51.51Ahr, 78%SOH and Hx 60.23%, 37,016 miles, 3245 L1/L2 charges and 0 DCQC charges.

Not likely to lose the other two in the next 8 months, but you never know.

palmermd said:
... As of today, 1st of June 2014 we have 54.91Ahr SOH 83% and Hx 68.63%, 25,382 miles, 1890 L1/L2 charges and 0 DCQC charges. ...
That's quite good considering that you live in a pretty hot part of CA. Saw your 1st bar post. It seems like your efforts did pay off.
 
Nobody's efforts paid off. The losers who care are stuck with a severely degraded pack after the capacity warranty is over. Speaking from experience.
 
Valdemar said:
Nobody's efforts paid off. The losers who care are stuck with a severely degraded pack after the capacity warranty is over. Speaking from experience.
Well, there are some who never would've or likely wouldn't have qualified for a free replacement under the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty.
 
cwerdna said:
Valdemar said:
Nobody's efforts paid off. The losers who care are stuck with a severely degraded pack after the capacity warranty is over. Speaking from experience.
Well, there are some who never would've or likely wouldn't have qualified for a free replacement under the 5 year/60K mile capacity warranty.

Fair point.
 
Joining the club. Just lost my 4th bar last night. Reported the loss to Nissan this morning.
I updated the Wiki with my details, repeating here for consistency.

Report #40, Date of Loss August 17, 2015, Location Scottsdale, AZ, Mileage at Loss 24, 697, Months 52
Manufacture Date 04/11 Case # 1981-9945 Reported to Nissan August 18, 2011
I will be taking my LEAF to Nissan at the end of October, no need to put new battery through this summer too
 
SilverLeaf said:
I will be taking my LEAF to Nissan at the end of October, no need to put new battery through this summer too

Assuming things go the way I expect/hope, and I loose bar 9 some time within the next two months, I'll wait until after October too. In fact, if my driving needs don't change any between now and December, I may wait until the last couple of weeks my warranty being valid. It'll be an excellent Christmas gift! :D

43.65 AHr, 66.54% Capacity as of last Sunday. Just 0.09AHr away from where jpvleaf lost her 9th bar (though a massive 1.88AHr away from where brettcgb supposedly lost his).
 
mwalsh said:
43.65 AHr, 66.54% Capacity as of last Sunday. Just 0.09AHr away from where jpvleaf lost her 9th bar (though a massive 1.88AHr away from where brettcgb supposedly lost his).
But who's counting, right? ;)
 
mwalsh said:
RegGuheert said:
But who's counting, right? ;)

:D 43.50AHr; 66.31% Capacity today. I'm sitting right on the theoretical upper threshold for bar 9 loss and have crossed the upper threshold seen in the real world. So it is literally a waiting game now. :D
Hmmm, my mind is seeing a blue Leaf sitting in the sun right now at 100% SOC, perhaps even parked next to a west facing wall with aluminum siding, or at least painted white ;)
 
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