Down 5 bars at 141,000 miles

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TaylorSFGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
191
Location
Kent, Washington
It has been some time since I've posted an update.

My mileage rate/month has dropped as I'm splitting my driving across another LEAF. Today was a perfect example - rather suddenly this morning, I realized I didn't plug in the '11 last night. So I plugged in the '14 and because of the faster charger in the newer models, I was able to head out after a much shorter charge time and make it to work without stopping.

As we go along, things seem to be getting better and better in the world of Nissan EV. If the purported higher capacity battery packs are interchangeable, Nissan has followed through on everything I hoped for when I started this journey more than 4 years ago. The multiple model levels introduced in the last couple of years have made the car more attractive to me.

I am currently charging midway at least once each direction of my commute. The recent GID drop supports my impression that it is getting harder to go this distance. There will come a time when I say enough is enough and I don't want to try and make the old battery continue to work for this commute. I anticipate that to be somewhere around 150,000 miles. It will continue to be a great errand runner.

I have noticed that when put in ECO mode, the REGEN is now next to nothing and no longer slows the car significantly.

Everything about the car has been terrific - brakes are still on their first set, Tires are on second set with lots of tread left. Still no need for a wheel alignment and holds straight. No other mechanical issues beyond the power window switch a couple of years ago. Is there any other car model out there that can go this kind of distance with such little maintenance?

Thanks again for everyone's support and encouragement. Steve
 
So, how many miles do you get on a charge ? I guess much better now in summer than you would in winter this year.
 
Thanks for the update. Apologies if you have answered this question elsewhere, but when it gets to the point that you simply cannot trust the car for all but the shortest of drives, would you be willing to have the battery pack replaced? It would be a shame to put that car into semi-retirement when (other than the battery degradation) it's served you so faithfully and there's nothing else wrong with it.
 
RonDawg said:
...would you be willing to have the battery pack replaced?
That is truly the beauty of our cars. The electric motor should last a long, LONG time. A replacement battery pack should be all the refurbishment the vehicle needs. $6K for a new battery pack is peanuts for maintenance on a 141,000 mile vehicle.

Steve, have you posted your LeafSpy results lately? It might be interesting to see since your car isn't doing much regen anymore.
 
surprised that you are getting less regen in eco mode. that seems to be in opposition to the setting's purpose. makes me want to experiment with Drive mode (have probably less than 10 total miles in drive mode over 2 LEAFs and 70,000+ miles) but without cruise control, I find it difficult to maintain my speed target but then again, getting ready to leave on a 94 mile work jaunt and guessing traffic will not be agreeable on the way home so might try it then
 
Thanks for the update! I'm impressed at your perseverance with that 2011 battery.

Given the regen limitations, is it taking much longer to add a given amount of charge via QC?
 
ILETRIC said:
With 5 bars down aren't you getting a free battery replacement per warranty?

No, he lost bar 4 out of warranty. Warranty is only good for 60,000 miles for US in flyover states, even if it was longer for Washington state, he didn't lose bar 4 until

Oct ?th, 2014 TaylorSFGuy Kent, WA 129,300 miles 41 months
 
While a battery upgrade would be ideal, it may not make financial sense at today's prices. His car's BB value is about $3k. He'd be better off trading for an $8K near 4 bar loser car, under warranty, then get a fresh pack.
 
Phatcat73 said:
His car's BB value is about $3k. He'd be better off trading for an $8K near 4 bar loser car, under warranty, then get a fresh pack.
True if he wants to put int he pack and then sell it. That probably wouldn't be a good idea.
Yes, he can push the "it has a new battery, so it's worth much more than the BB," but that could be a tough sell..

But, if he's just looking to refresh the car, $6k for an old Leaf with FULL RANGE might be much better than $8k for a newer car that's still degraded..

True, you were specifically looking at a car that is about to get a free (warranty replaced) battery, but I'd be worried about that.
Has the car been exempted? Has it had the firmware update that might pop it back to a 3 bar loser for a bit? Something else?
I'd be wary of a car that can get a free battery, but hasn't yet...
But that's me, I'm not a gambling man by nature.. ;-)

desiv
 
The best solution for any 2011 owner who needs more capacity should be in installing in a used pack replacement from a newer LEAF.

Taylor SF's problem is , since he drives his LEAF so many miles so quickly, his need for a replacement pack may come sooner than the aftermarket supply.

I'm probably ~2 years away from wanting a replacement pack, by when I expect my ~55k mile LEAF will have lost ~20% of it's new range.

A low-mile 2015 pack may even give me better-than-new-2011capacity, at a much lower price than buying new from Nissan, assuming of course the market has developed by ~2017.
 
Don't forget that he also has a 2015 Leaf. I'm pretty sure (if I was in his shoes anyway) he is planning to drive as many miles on the 2011 Leaf as possible just to see how far it will go. Call it bragging rights if you want, but it's probably more to do with curiosity. I'd really want to clock 150K, then see if 200K is possible in 2017. If winter comes (it is possible to never dip below freezing in this neck of the woods), he will probably switch to the 2015 for comfort and leave the 2011 for shorter trips. Then next spring it will be switcheroo time. At 3000 mi per month, he should crack 150K this fall.

It's great to see this much distance is possible, even with a short-range EV. Think about the gasoline savings and financial impact on those oil exporting countries (Russia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Nigeria, Venezuela). Just imagine what would happen to the US import/export balance if more people drove an EV.

However, I am concerned by the lack of regenerative braking. That is a sign the BMS is doing something, probably due to increased internal resistance. At some point something will fail internally. Many people have reported reduced regen, especially when cold or at high speeds, so this will only get worse. Since I plan to keep my Leaf forever, this will be a problem for me.

As for purchasing a $6K battery for a $3K car, it is probably a wash to get a newer vehicle with better technology. Eventually something else will fail that costs another $2-5K to fix, then you're nearly $10K, I've done the same thing with computers (my current 12 yo laptop graphics card/monitor has just flipped out, the battery was down to less than 30 min run time a long time ago). I need to decide whether it is worth adding anything, even $50, to get it running better. I'll probably go with a new one instead. On my last laptop, I spent $150 for a new hard drive and added memory to keep it running longer. Unfortunately, the mother board died about 6 months later, so not a good return on investment.

Good luck Steve and keep up the good driving! Thanks for keeping us informed.
 
I still think about the urge I had back in 2011 to put leather in that car. I finally came to my senses and decided to wait and see what's what.

Looking back, it's like finding 1,100 bucks laying on the sidewalk... Wow!
 
edatoakrun said:
The best solution for any 2011 owner who needs more capacity should be in installing in a used pack replacement from a newer LEAF.
Very good point - how hard it is to find a decent used pack and how much do they cost? I looked online briefly and could not find any.
 
drees said:
edatoakrun said:
The best solution for any 2011 owner who needs more capacity should be in installing in a used pack replacement from a newer LEAF.
Very good point - how hard it is to find a decent used pack and how much do they cost? I looked online briefly and could not find any.

Do we have the knowledge how to register a used pack of newer design with the 2011 Leaf's ECU? I don't think so.
 
Valdemar said:
Do we have the knowledge how to register a used pack of newer design with the 2011 Leaf's ECU? I don't think so.
No, but worst case you move the LBC over, or have the dealer reprogram the pack.
 
drees said:
Valdemar said:
Do we have the knowledge how to register a used pack of newer design with the 2011 Leaf's ECU? I don't think so.
No, but worst case you move the LBC over, or have the dealer reprogram the pack.

I wouldn't drop any money on a used pack until I knew one or the other is actually doable. I suspect 2011/12 LBC is incompatible with 2013+ modules, and whether or not the dealer has a way to pair a used pack is a big question, after all this additional complexity exists for a reason. Not saying it is a technical difficulty, but a process to request a key card from corporate may simply not exist, at least not yet.
 
Valdemar said:
drees said:
Valdemar said:
Do we have the knowledge how to register a used pack of newer design with the 2011 Leaf's ECU? I don't think so.
No, but worst case you move the LBC over, or have the dealer reprogram the pack.

I wouldn't drop any money on a used pack until I knew one or the other is actually doable. I suspect 2011/12 LBC is incompatible with 2013+ modules, and whether or not the dealer has a way to pair a used pack is a big question, after all this additional complexity exists for a reason. Not saying it is a technical difficulty, but a process to request a key card from corporate may simply not exist, at least not yet.

I wouldn't drop any money on a used pack until the 30 kWh or higher packs come out. It isn't far away and if they sell upgrade packs they may also offer refurbished packs. Imagine if the options were:

$6000 30 kWh pack upgrade
$4000 24 kWh pack replacement with new pack
$2000 24 kWh pack replacement with a pack guaranteed to have at least 10 bars (think about 80% SOH and 53 ahrs).

There might be some that have a 4+ bar loser that would like to have the choice of the cheaper pack replacements.

There might be more of those cheaper packs left over as someone upgrades to a new pack for Pay instead of Warranty.
 
Valdemar said:
I wouldn't drop any money on a used pack until I knew one or the other is actually doable. I suspect 2011/12 LBC is incompatible with 2013+ modules, and whether or not the dealer has a way to pair a used pack is a big question, after all this additional complexity exists for a reason. Not saying it is a technical difficulty, but a process to request a key card from corporate may simply not exist, at least not yet.

+1. We have no idea of whether or not an IC security card can be ordered from Nissan for an existing pack.

Nor, as of yet, do we know whether an owner requesting the IC security card that comes with his own new/replacement pack will end up with receiving it. I personally don't get this - why has nobody getting a replacement pack under warranty gotten back to us stating whether or not they've asked and been refused or vice-versa? It is like the number one question I intend to ask when I get my replacement pack, and if it's a pack I end up paying for out of warranty you can be damned sure I expect to receive that card (or get a very good reason as to why it's not available to me...which probably wouldn't wash anyhow)!
 
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