1932highboy
Well-known member
After a 4 hour wait at dealership, I been informed I qualify for a new battery on my 2011 Leaf. They have ordered the battery and install kit. No idea of delivery date.
The Battery Replacement Thread
- Thread starter jhm614
- Start date
Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:
Our 2011 Leaf dropped its 4th bar last month (at about 33,000 miles). I've been waiting to take it in until the 2016 Leaf was announced. I stopped by a Nissan dealership today and asked about paying some money to upgrade to the 30kWh battery instead of getting the replacement 24kWh battery. I was told that I would have to go through the process of verifying that my car lost its 4 bar before the dealership could ask the Nissan warranty people about the possibility of upgrading. I have an appointment for next week to have my 4BL status verified.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
I highly doubt the 30kw battery will be an replacement option from Nissan, that is not to say that someone won't figure out how to do it, it's just that Nissan won't do it.
jeremyz said:
Got any LEAFSpy data? Particularly Ahrs at loss.
jeremyz said:
Perfect! TY!
Valdemar
Well-known member
mwalsh said:
I'm below 43, SOH=65%, the 9th bar is sticking around, of course no new battery for me when it is gone.
Stanton
Well-known member
jeremyz said:
Location?? This is the one Forum/Board where location means everything!
Was this the reading on August 19, or today?
cracovian
Well-known member
It's been confirmed on GCR that, while the same size, the new 30 kWh battery is NOT compatible with the older LEAF models.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
What is GCR?
When Nissan corporate declares "it is not compatible" that just means "Nissan won't do it". I find it extremely hard to believe that we have a definitive answer that there is no way to get it to work. We know that Nissan will say it won't work, but until an enthusiast or the aftermarket actually has the battery pack or technical documentation, I would not definitively say "it won't work".
When Nissan corporate declares "it is not compatible" that just means "Nissan won't do it". I find it extremely hard to believe that we have a definitive answer that there is no way to get it to work. We know that Nissan will say it won't work, but until an enthusiast or the aftermarket actually has the battery pack or technical documentation, I would not definitively say "it won't work".
cwerdna
Well-known member
http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099894_2016-nissan-leaf-offers-107-mile-range-with-30-kwh-battery-leaf-s-unchanged#comment-2246197269Firetruck41 said:
If you don't get taken to the comments section, I pasted the comment here:
"johnvoelcker Mod Vincent Wolf • 11 hours ago
@Vincent Wolf and @sranger I asked this question of Nissan this morning, and the answer is no.
The new 30-kWh battery pack is not backward-compatible with the older cars. The sales and marketing exec I spoke with couldn't specify exactly why, but I've asked for more technical details. It may turn into an article here."
To me, even if it were plug compatible, there would likely need to be (at minimum) firmware changes so that the dash display (e.g. % SoC, time estimates to charge, etc.), "fuel" gauge and capacity bars work right.
Firetruck41
Well-known member
Thanks. Per the single comment I could find related to this, as I suspected, Nissan (marketing) corporate does not intend to use 30kwh batts in old cars. No surprise there. Until we know the technological hurdles, it remains to be seen if there will be a way to use the 30kwh pack in an "old" Leaf (without Nissan's blessing, of course).cwerdna said:
What's going to happen in 2021 when somebody's 24kWh battery from their 2016 Leaf S needs to be replaced under warranty? Is Nissan going to crank up some long dead battery factory to generate old cells that haven't been produced for years? Or are they just going to stick in some new modules in the 2011-2016 battery case?
mxp
Well-known member
Ok. We shall wait and see...
I did read in the recent update for the 2016 Leaf that they had a new clause for the battery warranty. It doesn't apply to us, but I remain hopeful that maybe,, just maybe the early adopters might get an exception on a case by case basis...
quoted: "....As evidence of a growing confidence in the 30 kWh battery’s cell chemistry (and the fact it will now take less battery cycles to go further), Nissan warrants battery loss below 9 bars of capacity (70%), for the first 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km) in the US and in Europe. The warranty on the S trim stays consistent with that of the 2015 LEAF, at 5 years or 60,000 miles...."
I did read in the recent update for the 2016 Leaf that they had a new clause for the battery warranty. It doesn't apply to us, but I remain hopeful that maybe,, just maybe the early adopters might get an exception on a case by case basis...
quoted: "....As evidence of a growing confidence in the 30 kWh battery’s cell chemistry (and the fact it will now take less battery cycles to go further), Nissan warrants battery loss below 9 bars of capacity (70%), for the first 8 years or 100,000 miles (160,000 km) in the US and in Europe. The warranty on the S trim stays consistent with that of the 2015 LEAF, at 5 years or 60,000 miles...."
TimLee said:
WetEV
Well-known member
Firetruck41 said:
This might be Nissan engineering, not marketing.
As an engineer, I'd want to be somewhat cautious in putting a different battery in an older car. Might be a firmware compatibility problem, or perhaps other issues. The only way to be real sure is to instrument the communications and test over a range of conditions. If this is your car, of course, this is fun. Not so fun when it is a customer's car.
Testing costs money. Even if no changes are needed or unexpected issues turn up.
So is there a positive return on investment? If not, why should Nissan spend the resources on this? Even if there is, this has to be second priority to getting the car with the 30kWh battery into production.
Now, a year or two from now, with larger margin and larger expected sales, the answer might be different. And once the production of the 24kWh battery is ramping down, there may be savings from not supporting the old battery and just switching to the newer technology.
(Disclosure: I once worked in automotive electronics design.)
Firetruck41
Well-known member
WetEV said:
Oh yes, not discounting that there may be intentional technological limitations/hurdles, just pretty certain there also is no corporate desire to put 30kwh packs in old Leafs at this point, and no support for us to do so, from Nisssan. It almost certainly rests on enthusiast owners and the aftermarket to find a way to make it happen... if its possible.
TimLee
Well-known member
And Nissan has incorporated features such as the coded integrated circuit that is needed to install a replacement pack in an existing vehicle and make it work.Firetruck41 said:
Makes the reuse of packs from salvaged vehicles more difficult requiring swapping the lithium battery controller.
You add in changing to eight cells per module instead of four and the reverse engineering of the programming both software and firmware becomes a daunting task.
Technically feasible does not mean it is practical or will happen within the market supply and demand constraints.
dhanson865
Well-known member
jeremyz said:
how about the manufacturing date from the driver door jamb label?
Stanton
Well-known member
jeremyz said:
Thanks...I suspect your AHrs have dropped even further by now. I have recently been bummed at some 42+ AHr readings, but at least yours is within 1 AHr of where I am currently at (44.15).
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