Brakes Fail upon Powering On

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My brakes started acting up today. Went to a store and returned to the Leaf and backed up. Pressure on the brake pedal didn't stop the car, scary. More pressure caused the brakes to slow down my motion and stopped it. A lot of pressure. Made and still makes a loud squawk at this point but stops the car.
Checked the brake fluid, appeared to be lower than the minimum line so went to NAPA and got a the $4 bottle of DOT brake fluid and put about 2-3 oz in the reservoir. Still makes that noise and would be considered unsafe to drive. Seemed like a lot of fluid and don't see any leaks on the ground. As the car comes to a stop after the squawks I can hear what sounds like something continuing to rotate another ten turns.
Yellow and Red caution lights are on, BRAKE light is on, Emergency brake works and releases. ABS, Traction Control light are on as is the one to the right of the ABS light.

Anyone have any ideas. My nearest Nissan dealer is 90 miles and I probably can make that without rear-ending someone, but it would help if there were a simple fix. I've tried the dealers service before but it is sparse and don't always return calls.

LSP DTC readout shows 4-5 charging related errors that have been there for 6 months. The following read Ok None: ABS,AIR BAG,BCM,BRAKE,EPS,EV/EHEV,HVAC,HV BATTERY,IPDM/E/R,METER,MOTOR CONTROL,SHIFT.

Previous comments contain excellent description of the sounds made. I use Leaf Spy Pro on an Android phone via BT.
 
I had exactly the same symptoms and problem went away after 3-4 days. Using LSP I also saw CAN bus errors as well as ABS and Brake controller related DTC'S. Did change 20 amp fuse related to VCM?

e: 20151027 See this entry for more http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=4765
 
I think I have a similar problem.

Yesterday I trickle charged my 2015 Leaf S for about 8 hours with Leaf Spy Pro running on my phone and a bluetooth transmitter connected to the OBD port. When the car was about 70% charged, I attempted to back it out of my garage and down an inclined driveway.

It was a fast, scary blur, but I think that the brakes did nothing--I do recall a clicking or grinding sound--and I stopped the car with the parking/emergency brake. I sat there, dazed, and assumed that I hadn't actually put the car into drive mode, so I tried it again--with the same result. I was able to stop the car from rolling backwards by putting into D, but then the car continued to creep forward, and the brake pedal seemed to be ineffective. I quickly applied the parking brake and shut the car off.

At about 5AM the next day (today), I checked the car again. The following warning lights ARE on: brake warning (both "BRAKE" and the drum brake symbol with the exclamation point in the middle), ABS and the master warning lights (both red and yellow). However, Leaf Spy Pro indicates NO Diagnostic Trouble Codes.

Regardless of the outcome, I HAVE already filed a report with NHTSA at https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/ (This could be a SERIOUS problem.)

Perhaps coincidently, my local Nissan dealer "reprogram[med the] electrically-driven intelligent brake control unit" about 5 days ago. This was per a Nissan recall, I think. (My invoice indicates "PERFORM CAMPAIGN P5327.") There is another thread for P5327: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20785

This happened about 7PM on a Sunday night, so I'm waiting to call my local Nissan dealer and/or the Nissan 800 number at the start of the business day on Monday.
 
I just purchased one of these:

http://www.harborfreight.com/3-in-1-portable-power-pack-with-jump-starter-62306.html

I keep it in the car should the 12V battery fail in my LEAF. Probably overkill but reading other threads about 12V battery problems, and living in a part of the country where 12V batteries last only about 3 years, I thought it was prudent.
 
MartinChico said:
I think I have a similar problem.

Yesterday I trickle charged my 2015 Leaf S for about 8 hours with Leaf Spy Pro running on my phone and a bluetooth transmitter connected to the OBD port. When the car was about 70% charged, I attempted to back it out of my garage and down an inclined driveway.

It was a fast, scary blur, but I think that the brakes did nothing--I do recall a clicking or grinding sound--and I stopped the car with the parking/emergency brake. I sat there, dazed, and assumed that I hadn't actually put the car into drive mode, so I tried it again--with the same result. I was able to stop the car from rolling backwards by putting into D, but then the car continued to creep forward, and the brake pedal seemed to be ineffective. I quickly applied the parking brake and shut the car off.

At about 5AM the next day (today), I checked the car again. The following warning lights ARE on: brake warning (both "BRAKE" and the drum brake symbol with the exclamation point in the middle), ABS and the master warning lights (both red and yellow). However, Leaf Spy Pro indicates NO Diagnostic Trouble Codes.

Regardless of the outcome, I HAVE already filed a report with NHTSA at https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/ (This could be a SERIOUS problem.)

Perhaps coincidently, my local Nissan dealer "reprogram[med the] electrically-driven intelligent brake control unit" about 5 days ago. This was per a Nissan recall, I think. (My invoice indicates "PERFORM CAMPAIGN P5327.")

This happened about 7PM on a Sunday night, so I'm waiting to call my local Nissan dealer and/or the Nissan 800 number at the start of the business day on Monday.
Maybe link this new problem to this thread: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=20785 . I know I won't be getting this done ( until further review) :x
 
Exact same thing happened to me today. Started my 2013 Nissan Leaf and put it in reverse and almost immediately the car started moving back. Since my drive way has a considerable slope, the car moved fast. Brakes felt soft and no resistance. Had to slam the brakes pretty hard to the floor to get the car to stop. Turned the car off and started it back on after few mins. Still the same issue. Moved the car to Drive and it did the same thing. Slammed the brakes again hard to stop the car. Left the car there for a while and started it after an hour and everything seems normal now. Took the car to the dealer (Corona Nissan) and explained the problem. Was told the car is out warranty (39500 miles) and estimated diagnostic cost is $127. I still need to look at the warranty guide to see if this falls under Powertrain/EV system coverage.

Just the thought of my kids or someone else present around the car sent shivers. Extremely fortunate that no one else was close by.

I also noticed many owners with the same issue, but only saw 10 complaints so far for this on http://www.safercar.gov. I filed my complaint.
Anyone who had or will have an issue, please take few minutes to post your complaint on http://www.safercar.gov/ or https://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/VehicleComplaint/

MODERATORS NOTE: poiuy09 posted the same thing in multiple threads. Please don't do that.
For reference, here are links to the other threads he posted to - drees
Brakes problem!!
Scary braking problem
My Leaf roll back and almost kill a kid!
Brake failure on nissan leaf
Intermittent brake failure/problems
Life threatening brake and B mode failure
 
poiuy09 said:
Exact same thing happened to me today. Started my 2013 Nissan Leaf and put it in reverse and almost immediately the car started moving back. Since my drive way has a considerable slope, the car moved fast. Brakes felt soft and no resistance. Had to slam the brakes pretty hard to the floor to get the car to stop. ...
Did you have the 12V battery checked?
Free testing at most automotive stores.

When my 12V had a bad cell the braking was very bad once while parking.

Multiple web posts and safety post will not eliminate your risk.
Get it fixed.
 
My 2015 S just had the same problems as mentioned above in numerous other posts. I would not expect it to be a battery problem since the vehicle is only 2 months old. Just last Friday I had the recall performed on the vehicle the same as the person above. It is not that cold here, in fact warmer than it has been in the mornings.

Read the DTC codes

U100D 0109 ABS CAN Comm circuit
U110D 0109 ABS E-driven intelligent brake comm BRC-130
Ok None ---> AIR BAG
Ok None ---> BCM
Ok None ---> EPS
P3195 000B EV/HEV CAN Error EVC-272
U1000 000B EV/HEV Can Comm Circuit
Ok None ---> HVAC
Ok None ---> HV BATTERY
Ok None ---> IPDM E/R
Ok None ---> METER
Ok None ---> MOTOR CONTROL
Ok None ---> SHIFT

I am going to take a voltage reading of the battery after it sits for a bit because I had it running for a couple minutes. I did take a reading when it was running and found 14.5 VDC. After I shut the car off it dropped very quickly to 13.0 VDC and was still dropping when I left it. It seems maybe something is still loading it down after turning of the car. Once the dealer is open they can come pick it up and give me a loaner while they fix it. It's kinda sucky because this is the second problem I have had on this car and it only 2 months old. This one is quite dangerous as well.
 
I checked the car aux battery again, this time I left the meter on "min" setting and booted the vehicle up. I ran it through some forward and reversing operations with the original problem still existing. Turned the vehicle off and had a look at the meter and found the min voltage to be 12.15 VDC with average at 13.85 VDC. I would assume 12.15VDC should be adequate to operate the brake system.

Last night I gave the vehicle a good run out to pick my mother up at the ferry terminal and back to my place, it was a good 60 km round trip and used 50% battery life. I would assume a good run like that would get the battery nicely charged, but from reading another thread, apparently the battery charge is brought down to 13.1 VDC for whatever reason.

Spoke to the dealer we are having it towed to nissan
 
Ninjarider1978 said:
I checked the car aux battery again, this time I left the meter on "min" setting and booted the vehicle up. I ran it through some forward and reversing operations with the original problem still existing. Turned the vehicle off and had a look at the meter and found the min voltage to be 12.15 VDC with average at 13.85 VDC. I would assume 12.15VDC should be adequate to operate the brake system.
I would think so. Those are fairly normal voltages to see in the LEAF.
Ninjarider1978 said:
Last night I gave the vehicle a good run out to pick my mother up at the ferry terminal and back to my place, it was a good 60 km round trip and used 50% battery life. I would assume a good run like that would get the battery nicely charged, but from reading another thread, apparently the battery charge is brought down to 13.1 VDC for whatever reason.
If you assume that about most (older) cars, it would be a decent assumption. That assumption is incorrect for the LEAF since it almost certainly spent nearly the entire drive at a "float" voltage, neither charging nor discharging your battery. In other words, the 12V battery likely had no more charge at the end of the drive than before it.
Ninjarider1978 said:
Spoke to the dealer we are having it towed to nissan
Good idea.

Good luck!
 
If you assume that about most (older) cars, it would be a decent assumption. That assumption is incorrect for the LEAF since it almost certainly spent nearly the entire drive at a "float" voltage, neither charging nor discharging your battery. In other words, the 12V battery likely had no more charge at the end of the drive than before it.

I have come to understand this vehicle does work like ICE vehicles. It does some things in peculiar ways. This not providing a full charge to the aux battery that is responsible for the prime safety feature of the vehicle is really quite dumb in my mind.

Good luck!

We will see what they come up with.
 
I was surprised to find out they even have a regular lead acid battery in them. I figured they would just use a solid state buck switcher to get any other voltage they needed at whatever power level they needed, which is what I guess they must have in order to charge the lead acid battery but likely a much smaller a ampacity due to using the EVSE to charge the 12V normally. Which if they let me plug the vehicle in at greater than 80% charge regularly then I would and the aux battery would be adequately charged without using the main battery. I could be wrong about that though. Would have to perform some testing to prove that. Sorry, just thinking aloud.
 
Update, they took my leaf away to be looked at. Hope to see it again soon.

On the side, my wife and I contacted transport Canada and filed a complaint because of the potential danger this problem has. Normally, when you file something with the government it goes into a black hole never to be seen again, but a person who works at transport Canada contacted my wife looking for more info because there is an open investigation on this problem, which is why Nissan had put a supposed fix out to rectify the problem. Our vehicle was in to get the fix done and 3 days later had this known problem the fix should have fixed. They asked a whole slew of questions like, what was the charge state, was anyone/anything hurt, our vin number, did we have any mods on the vehicle, what were the lights on the dash etc. They want to know what the dealer does to the vehicle.

I made mention of this complaint to transport Canada to our Nissan dealer so hopefully it gets fixed properly.
 
Ninjarider1978 said:
I was surprised to find out they even have a regular lead acid battery in them. I figured they would just use a solid state buck switcher to get any other voltage they needed at whatever power level they needed, which is what I guess they must have in order to charge the lead acid battery but likely a much smaller a ampacity due to using the EVSE to charge the 12V normally. Which if they let me plug the vehicle in at greater than 80% charge regularly then I would and the aux battery would be adequately charged without using the main battery. I could be wrong about that though. Would have to perform some testing to prove that. Sorry, just thinking aloud.

The key concept is the main pack has to be disconnected from all systems when the car is off. This is for safety of mechanics, firefighters, rescue crews, etc.

The 12v is the only battery left connected when the vehicle is off thus you can't charge it while it is off. Any system that would charge the 12v while the car is off would defeat the safety issue mentioned above*.

* the solar panel on the spoiler/roof can feed small low voltage power to the 12v while the car is off but that isn't a safety issue.

End result the 12v battery is used to close the main pack contact every time you turn the car on and it is used for any vampire drain from the cell/gps/radio/lights/key fob reader/etc that is on while the car is "off".

If you want your 12v to last a long time grab a 3a or 4a desulphating charger like a CTEK and charge the car battery several times a year. It's stupid but if you do it then you don't have to worry about what the built in system isn't doing well enough.

edit: http://www.amazon.com/CTEK-56-864-Automatic-Battery-Charger/dp/B006G14FK8 seems to be on sale right now for ~$47 with prime.
 
Ok, makes sense, seems like the best fix would be for Nissan to properly charge the aux battery when the vehicle is ON. Not sure if that's what the fix was supposed to do or what the deal was but I guess in the meantime I will be topping up the battery occasionally with a separate charger. We will see if Nissan comes back with a low battery charge being the cause of this issue, which is entirely possible since like I mentioned I was on that 60km trip the night previous and apparently the wife sat outside in it waiting for our daughter to finish piano practice, all the while with the heat cranked. She obviously made it home but it's possible with all the parasitic draws it put it in a low state of charge overnight.
 
Ninjarider1978 said:
... I ran it through some forward and reversing operations with the original problem still existing.

Last night I gave the vehicle a good run out to pick my mother up at the ferry terminal and back to my place, it was a good 60 km round trip ...

Spoke to the dealer we are having it towed to nissan
Why did you drive a vehicle with brakes that are not working properly 60 km :?:
 
Ninjarider1978 said:
Ok, makes sense, seems like the best fix would be for Nissan to properly charge the aux battery when the vehicle is ON. Not sure if that's what the fix was supposed to do or what the deal was but I guess in the meantime I will be topping up the battery occasionally with a separate charger.

The problem there is the car has no prior knowledge of how long you'll leave the car on in seconds, minutes, or hours. The faster it charges the more damage it can do to the 12v and can cause off gassing (fire/explosion concerns). The slower it charges it may not complete before you turn the car off again.

Another factor is you can only reliably check the voltage on a 12v battery with a steady known load and no charging occurring. But the systems in the car will vary the load as each subsystem is powered up or down. They could make a special diagnostic menu for 12v battery check and charging profile but there is no great way of automatically getting the charge profile right given the three gotchas

1. safe disconnect when off
2. unknown time on / unknown time off
3. variable loads while on and off

Toyota did it way worse with the 2004-2009 Prius, Slight improvement for the 2010-2015 Prius. But the failure mode is the car won't turn on, the brakes are always safe to use because their capacitor dedicated to the brake system works to prevent the issue the Leaf sees.

Tesla has a different issue but still is killing 12v batteries way too often because they have a higher vampire load when the car is off. They have the dash tell you to go to the service center and get a free 12v when it gets too weak. AKA they throw money at the issue (replace the battery proactively at the first sign of weakness). See http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/41006-Near-annual-replacement-of-12V-battery-is-typical-according-to-Tesla-Service-Tech if you want details.

Nissan has more of an issue with the Leaf that doesn't have the solar panel, probably on par with what you'd see on a current gen Prius. Less of an issue with the Leaf + solar panel as it gives a little bit more charging when the car is in the sun. Not much but better than nothing.

What Nissan needs to do is either

A. make the system immune to the brake issue like Toyota did (redesign, retro fit, hardware change)
B. make the system immune to the issue by pulling a Tesla and have it tell you to replace the battery (software change)*

* The software could tell you to manually charge the battery instead of replacing it but if Leafs start popping up battery warnings even 12v related it'd have a negative connotation.

End result is Hybrid or EV there is no easy answer. If you as the end user maintain the 12v your issues will be less than if you trust the car to try and do it on its own.
 
dhanson865 said:
...
What Nissan needs to do is either

A. make the system immune to the brake issue like Toyota did (redesign, retro fit, hardware change)
B. make the system immune to the issue by pulling a Tesla and have it tell you to replace the battery (software change)*

* The software could tell you to manually charge the battery instead of replacing it but if Leafs start popping up battery warnings even 12v related it'd have a negative connotation.
...
But doing nothing because of negative connotations, which is what they seem to have done so far, seems like a really bad long term choice.

Could result in NHTSA issues, fines, lawsuits, etc.
Lots of past experience from Toyota and GM to indicate do nothing is a bad choice.

This topic discusses braking issue. But other MNL topic has discussed loss of propulsion which may also be related to 12V problem.
Braking problem seems more of a risk, but GM switch problem that caused loss of power has been documented to have caused quite a few deaths.
 
TimLee said:
dhanson865 said:
...
What Nissan needs to do is either

A. make the system immune to the brake issue like Toyota did (redesign, retro fit, hardware change)
B. make the system immune to the issue by pulling a Tesla and have it tell you to replace the battery (software change)*

* The software could tell you to manually charge the battery instead of replacing it but if Leafs start popping up battery warnings even 12v related it'd have a negative connotation.
...
But doing nothing because of negative connotations, which is what they seem to have done so far, seems like a really bad long term choice.

Could result in NHTSA issues, fines, lawsuits, etc.
Lots of past experience from Toyota and GM to indicate do nothing is a bad choice.

This topic discusses braking issue. But other MNL topic has discussed loss of propulsion which may also be related to 12V problem.
Braking problem seems more of a risk, but GM switch problem that caused loss of power has been documented to have caused quite a few deaths.


Yep, I'm not saying I'm happy with it and nothing should change. I'm just saying I charge my battery with a CTEK in addition to the Nissan provided systems. Hopefully some day down the road I won't have to bother.
 
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