EVSE wiring and/or GFI Breaker

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I am leaning towards the HCS-40 P with 14-50 so I can take it with me if I go camping.

Back to GFI

Anyone have a comment on an Eaton Br Load Center GFCI breaker?
Any comment on AFCI breakers.

Thanks again.
 
koolkev said:
I am leaning towards the HCS-40 P with 14-50 so I can take it with me if I go camping.

Back to GFI

Anyone have a comment on an Eaton Br Load Center GFCI breaker?
Any comment on AFCI breakers.

Thanks again.

AFAIK there aren't any 240 volt split phase AFCI breakers yet.

Highly recommend the HCS-40P!

GFCI breakers always seem too expensive compared to GFCI receptacles so I'd avoid them unless you have a specific need that would benefit from it which I don't this is one of them.
 
koolkev said:
I am leaning towards the HCS-40 P with 14-50 so I can take it with me if I go camping.

You may not care, but

Q: Can I install a ClipperCreek 240V charging outdoors?

A: For outdoor installations we recommend installing a hardwired 240V EV charging station. ClipperCreek charging stations have a fully sealed NEMA 4 enclosure that provides superior protection to the components inside the station from outdoor elements. All of our plug-in 240V charging stations have an indoor rating due to the 240V plug. The plug-in units have the same fully sealed NEMA 4 enclosure, it is 240V plugs that are not rated for outdoor use and should not be exposed to the elements. Also, an optional wall mount connector holster can in installed indoors or outdoors. The optional holster provides a secure place to store the connector head and provides extra protection from the elements.
 
A GFCI plug or breaker trips at around 5 MA. The EVSE specifications are for a 20 MA GFCI circuit. Under most conditions you can get away with a 120V 5 MA GFCI but you may experience unwanted trips. I think 20 MA is quite large but that is what it is.
 
RCCB in my EVSE (high quality brand in EU ABL Sursum) is rated to 30mA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device#Purpose_and_operation
Graph on the right, we see AC-2 zone for 30mA. (AC-2: perceptible, but no muscle reaction).

Why use anything else, especially if there is a probability of unnecessary tripping?
All we want to do is not to get killed, that's all :lol:
 
Some 240-volt EVSEs test for a good ground connection by passing a small current to ground. If they pass more than 5 mA, they will trip a GFCI breaker. Therefore, check EVSE manufacturer recommendations before buying an expensive GFCI breaker. As an example, the AeroVironment EVSE I purchased in 2011 will instantaneously trip a 240-volt GFCI breaker even without the cable plugged into the car because it draws more than 5 mA to check the ground connection. I would prefer to have GFCI protection on my EVSE supply circuit, but the AeroVironment unit will not allow it.

The Nissan 120-volt EVSEs (and upgrades from EVSEUpgrade) will work fine on GFCI-protected circuits. I sometimes use my EVSEUpgrade unit with 20-ampere, 240-volt circuits fed from GFCI breakers.

Gerry
 
koolkev said:
I would be happy to go $100 even if it isn't required. I picked one out and was quoted $300 but the counter man inferred that I choose a rare over specked part.

Home Depot sells the 50 amp 240/50a BR GFCI for $99 all day long.


http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-50-Amp-Double-Pole-Type-BR-Ground-Fault-Circuit-Breaker-GFCB250CS/100160831

Link above.
 
GerryAZ said:
Some 240-volt EVSEs test for a good ground connection by passing a small current to ground. If they pass more than 5 mA, they will trip a GFCI breaker. Therefore, check EVSE manufacturer recommendations before buying an expensive GFCI breaker. As an example, the AeroVironment EVSE I purchased in 2011 will instantaneously trip a 240-volt GFCI breaker even without the cable plugged into the car because it draws more than 5 mA to check the ground connection. I would prefer to have GFCI protection on my EVSE supply circuit, but the AeroVironment unit will not allow it.

The Nissan 120-volt EVSEs (and upgrades from EVSEUpgrade) will work fine on GFCI-protected circuits. I sometimes use my EVSEUpgrade unit with 20-ampere, 240-volt circuits fed from GFCI breakers.

Gerry

That was the initial problem with OpenEVSE units using the mfg recommended 22K resistors. Switching to 47K resistors still worked fine with the light output load and they no longer tripped the external GFCI.
 
Home depot is funny. The link above for the breaker isn't available all day at the moment but this is, GFTCB v GFCB:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Eaton-50-Amp-Type-BR-2-Pole-GFCI-Breaker-with-Self-Test-GFTCB250CS/206676933

That is what I got. Waiting on install

Thanks for pointing out the outdoor rating issue. I did get the 40P. I'm going to chance it with California weather and not "needing" it regularly. I have a 110v outlet in the garage but cement and such in the path for a new 220 in the garage. I was looking at a big NEAMA 4 enclosure but $700 more is not in the picture. That was for an enclosure big enough for everything including the cable. So I think it would have passed muster as indoor. Just run the cable out a grommited hole in the bottom. I got the RV outlet with cover and the GFI breaker so if I'm charging or letting someone else charge they can use 220.

I want to be able to take the 220 charger on trips so if I get somewhere with a 220 outlet I'm in business. I'm looking at RV campsites etc.
 
koolkev said:
Thanks for pointing out the outdoor rating issue. I did get the 40P. I'm going to chance it with California weather and not "needing" it regularly. I have a 110v outlet in the garage but cement and such in the path for a new 220 in the garage. I was looking at a big NEAMA 4 enclosure but $700 more is not in the picture. That was for an enclosure big enough for everything including the cable.
$700?! Looking on Amazon, there appear to be all kinds of large electrical boxes for about $100 or less - and you don't need to have the cord inside. I agree that you probably will be fine installing it "unprotected" though, especially if it's not directly exposed, and if you at least put the outlet in some sort of box.
So I think it would have passed muster as indoor. Just run the cable out a grommited hole in the bottom. I got the RV outlet with cover and the GFI breaker so if I'm charging or letting someone else charge they can use 220.

I want to be able to take the 220 charger on trips so if I get somewhere with a 220 outlet I'm in business. I'm looking at RV campsites etc.
Just remember that with your EVSE choice you can ONLY use >=40 amp outlets, which in practice means only RV outlets or if you're verylucky a 50 amp dryer or range outlet. If you think you'll ever have the chance to charge off of lesser 240V outlets, e.g. 30 amp dryer outlets, you'll need another EVSE that can be adjusted to draw less current.
 
Yesterday I had a 14-50 outlet installed for a Juicebox Pro. It's on a GFCI breaker because that is the code as of two weeks ago. The electrician said I would likely get some nuisance tripping and that GFCI breakers aren't necessary but inspectors don't care, thems the rules.

The Juicebox seems to be working correctly but my leaf doesn't like it. I can charge with the level one cable but when I plug in Juicebox cable I get the three lights flashing then they go dark. No breaker tripping though.

The Juicebox says not to plug into a protected outlet so I was hoping it would work but expected problems. Electrician said I can switch out the breaker if I have problems. Tomorrow the inspector will check it out. I'll see what he says. I'm assuming the GFCI breaker is the problem.
 
BlueandFav said:
The Juicebox says not to plug into a protected outlet so I was hoping it would work but expected problems. Electrician said I can switch out the breaker if I have problems. Tomorrow the inspector will check it out. I'll see what he says. I'm assuming the GFCI breaker is the problem.

Switch out the breaker temporarily for a non-GFI. If the problem goes away then it's the breaker. If the problem remains then it's either the Juice Box or your LEAF. I take it the LEAF is good with other L2 EVSEs (ie: public ones)?

A GFI breaker is code here too, at least for outdoor outlets, but I'm only going to be using it for my compressor and maybe every once in a while for one or other of the cars, using the EVSE Upgrade modified Nissan brick.
 
mwalsh said:
BlueandFav said:
The Juicebox says not to plug into a protected outlet so I was hoping it would work but expected problems. Electrician said I can switch out the breaker if I have problems. Tomorrow the inspector will check it out. I'll see what he says. I'm assuming the GFCI breaker is the problem.

Switch out the breaker temporarily for a non-GFI. If the problem goes away then it's the breaker. If the problem remains then it's either the Juice Box or your LEAF. I take it the LEAF is good with other L2 EVSEs (ie: public ones)?

A GFI breaker is code here too, at least for outdoor outlets, but I'm only going to be using it for my compressor and maybe every once in a while for one or other of the cars, using the EVSE Upgrade modified Nissan brick.

The JuiceBox says not to use a GFCI breaker since it is more sensitive than the EVSE. Under perfect conditions it will work fine. An EVSE is 20MA VS 5MA for the breaker.
 
BlueandFav said:
Yesterday I had a 14-50 outlet installed for a Juicebox Pro. It's on a GFCI breaker because that is the code as of two weeks ago. The electrician said I would likely get some nuisance tripping and that GFCI breakers aren't necessary but inspectors don't care, thems the rules.

The Juicebox seems to be working correctly but my leaf doesn't like it. I can charge with the level one cable but when I plug in Juicebox cable I get the three lights flashing then they go dark. No breaker tripping though.

The Juicebox says not to plug into a protected outlet so I was hoping it would work but expected problems. Electrician said I can switch out the breaker if I have problems. Tomorrow the inspector will check it out. I'll see what he says. I'm assuming the GFCI breaker is the problem.

The only problem specific to GFCI would be potential nuisance tripping. If the breaker hasn't tripped then the problem is something else unrelated to GFCI.
 
Nubo said:
The only problem specific to GFCI would be potential nuisance tripping. If the breaker hasn't tripped then the problem is something else unrelated to GFCI.

Car charged fine at a public charger this morning. Read elsewhere that my 14-50 outlet may not be grounded properly. If the outlet is good I'll have to contact Juicebox customer service.
 
Assuming you have a normal panel and not a sub panel both the ground and the neutral go to the same buss and you should have continuity between them, Turn off the breaker for safety reasons but the wires go directly.
 
BlueandFav said:
The Juicebox seems to be working correctly but my leaf doesn't like it. I can charge with the level one cable but when I plug in Juicebox cable I get the three lights flashing then they go dark. No breaker tripping though.
What does the JuiceBox app say?
 
wmcbrine said:
BlueandFav said:
The Juicebox seems to be working correctly but my leaf doesn't like it. I can charge with the level one cable but when I plug in Juicebox cable I get the three lights flashing then they go dark. No breaker tripping though.
What does the JuiceBox app say?

I'll check the app if I have any future problems. Think the problem was the connection. One night I had to plug it in three times before it worked, temperamental J1772. So glad its not my breaker or outlet.
 
The breaker or receptacle is the easiest, cheapest thing to fix.

I don't use GFIC breakers on my charger circuits. Just what I need for the GFIC to trip after I plug the car in at night and walk away and come out to a car that hasn't charged at all when I have to go to work.
 
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