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Ready2plugin said:
Yes, not sure what I would of done if I knew all the costs upfront.
You might have done what I did. I went down to the local Home Depot, bought something less than $50 worth of parts, and put in my own new 120v circuit complete with a subpanel and 20A circuit breaker. I didn't bother mentioning it to the city.
 
planet4ever said:
Ready2plugin said:
Yes, not sure what I would of done if I knew all the costs upfront.
You might have done what I did. I went down to the local Home Depot, bought something less than $50 worth of parts, and put in my own new 120v circuit complete with a subpanel and 20A circuit breaker. I didn't bother mentioning it to the city.
Probably something I will consider doing too when the Leviton 240V/16A units are out next year. Parts (other than the EVSE) should be less than $100:

25' of #10 wire (oversized in case I want to go 24A in future)
6-20R outlet
MP22020 breaker
 
greenleaf said:
planet4ever said:
Ready2plugin said:
Yes, not sure what I would of done if I knew all the costs upfront.
You might have done what I did. I went down to the local Home Depot, bought something less than $50 worth of parts, and put in my own new 120v circuit complete with a subpanel and 20A circuit breaker. I didn't bother mentioning it to the city.
Probably something I will consider doing too when the Leviton 240V/16A units are out next year. Parts (other than the EVSE) should be less than $100:

25' of #10 wire (oversized in case I want to go 24A in future)
6-20R outlet
MP22020 breaker

I don't think I would have had a problem for a 120v.....it's the 220v line of EVSE's that the city must have a problem with. I'll clarify with my contractor once he comes back on Thursday to finish.
 
You could just install two 120v sockets, each on a 20A breaker, but one on Line1 and one on Line2. That should pass inspection OK.

Then, with the right adapter, plugging into both sockets, you have 240v ... but might not have been forced to upgrade your panel.

Perhaps these circuits would need to be just conveniently located "utility" plugs, with no mention of their possible later use for EV charging?

Or, perhaps better, if L1 (120v) EVSE use is OK, you might specify that one socket is intended for 12 to 16 amp charging, and the other for convenience?
 
garygid said:
You could just install two 120v sockets, each on a 20A breaker, but one on Line1 and one on Line2. That should pass inspection OK.

Then, with the right adapter, plugging into both sockets, you have 240v ... but might not have been forced to upgrade your panel.

Perhaps these circuits would need to be just conveniently located "utility" plugs, with no mention of their possible later use for EV charging?

Or, perhaps better, if L1 (120v) EVSE use is OK, you might specify that one socket is intended for 12 to 16 amp charging, and the other for convenience?

It's easier to run two dedicated circuits in one single box. In fact, those with even an existing 120V dedicated circuit could make a 240 EVSE work for a Leaf, particularly those with a 12/3 wire run. People install 240 outlets all the time for compressors you buy at home depot, if one runs 10 or 8G and puts a pigtail and the outlet for a low current 240V compressor it does not cause as much concern. One reason permits is high is because the call it an EV charging station and not a simple outlet, inspectors make a big deal out of ignorance. Putting in a 240 outlet is as routine as it gets.
 
I "repurposed" a 240V/20A compressor outlet in my garage for the Leviton 16A EVSE, which is all that Leaf 1.0 can handle. Any electrician should be able to add a circuit like that without too much headache, unless you have 100A or smaller service.

***********

My "rate comparison" letter arrived from PG&E. After all the calls about having just added 3kW solar PV and planning to add an EV, what they gave me was a rate comparison between E1 and E6, using the prior 12 months' consumption data, with a guess as to TOU bucket fractions. They would not add E9A to the rate comparison until I have an EV.

The rate comparison did not include any adjustment for the PV I just added (which triggered the rate comparison), or the Leaf I'm waiting for.

I'll calculate PV production and EV consumption modifications to their usage assumptions, revise their TOU bucket estimations, and write them back with the results asking them to use my figures re-calculate the rate comparison.
 
We got our first full month bill for E9A. Despite a slightly longer billing period and higher usage, our bill this year was lower than the same month last year. It averaged out to $1.66 a day for electricity. During the winter this is definitely a bargain rate. When the summer rates come and I have the Leaf, we'll see if that holds true.
 
greenleaf said:
edatoakrun said:
New PG&E rates, as of today, at:

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML#ERS
Thanks. Looks like they raised tiers 1 and 2 and lowered tiers 3, 4, 5.


For E9A, it seems Tier 3 and 4 are higher. Which is not good for me, because previously E9A Tier 3 was almost same as E6 Tier 2 and I was hoping to avoid E9B (separate meter). The new rates doesn't look good :cry:

E9A Summer:
Peak:
Tier 1 - 0.314 to 0.30470
Tier 2 - 0.314 to 0.30470
Tier 3 - 0.36533 to 0.44575
Tier 4 - 0.40926 to 0.55542

Partial Peak:
Tier 1 - 0.11439 to 0.11135
Tier 2 - 0.11439 to 0.11135
Tier 3 - 0.16563 to 0.25240
Tier 4 - 0.20956 to 0.36207

Off-peak
Tier 1 - 0.054 to 0.0529
Tier 2 - 0.054 to 0.0529
Tier 3 - 0.10529 to 0.13998
Tier 4 - 0.14922 to 0.18172
Tier 5 - 0.16910 to 0.18172

E9A Winter:
Partial Peak:
Tier 1 - 0.11426 to 0.11123
Tier 2 - 0.11426 to 0.11123
Tier 3 - 0.16550 to 0.25227
Tier 4 - 0.20943 to 0.36194

Off-peak
Tier 1 - 0.06328 to 0.06186
Tier 2 - 0.06328 to 0.06186
Tier 3 - 0.10529 to 0.13998
Tier 4 - 0.14922 to 0.18172
Tier 5 - 0.16910 to 0.18172
 
leaf561 said:
greenleaf said:
edatoakrun said:
New PG&E rates, as of today, at:

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/ERS.SHTML#ERS
Thanks. Looks like they raised tiers 1 and 2 and lowered tiers 3, 4, 5.


For E9A, it seems Tier 3 and 4 are higher. Which is not good for me, because previously E9A Tier 3 was almost same as E6 Tier 2 and I was hoping to avoid E9B (separate meter). The new rates doesn't look good :cry:

E9A Summer:
Peak:
Tier 1 - 0.314 to 0.30470
Tier 2 - 0.314 to 0.30470
Tier 3 - 0.36533 to 0.44575
Tier 4 - 0.40926 to 0.55542

Partial Peak:
Tier 1 - 0.11439 to 0.11135
Tier 2 - 0.11439 to 0.11135
Tier 3 - 0.16563 to 0.25240
Tier 4 - 0.20956 to 0.36207

Off-peak
Tier 1 - 0.054 to 0.0529
Tier 2 - 0.054 to 0.0529
Tier 3 - 0.10529 to 0.13998
Tier 4 - 0.14922 to 0.18172
Tier 5 - 0.16910 to 0.18172

E9A Winter:
Partial Peak:
Tier 1 - 0.11426 to 0.11123
Tier 2 - 0.11426 to 0.11123
Tier 3 - 0.16550 to 0.25227
Tier 4 - 0.20943 to 0.36194

Off-peak
Tier 1 - 0.06328 to 0.06186
Tier 2 - 0.06328 to 0.06186
Tier 3 - 0.10529 to 0.13998
Tier 4 - 0.14922 to 0.18172
Tier 5 - 0.16910 to 0.18172
If I am reading the tables correctly, the rates for tier 3 and higher are reduced. They are not increased as depicted in your numbers.

For example, E9a summer peak tier 3 drops from 0.45169 to 0.44575.
 
greenleaf said:
If I am reading the tables correctly, the rates for tier 3 and higher are reduced. They are not increased as depicted in your numbers.

For example, E9a summer peak tier 3 drops from 0.45169 to 0.44575.

I might be looking at an older rate:
Date Filed September 23, 2003
Effective October 1, 2003
 
leaf561 said:
greenleaf said:
If I am reading the tables correctly, the rates for tier 3 and higher are reduced. They are not increased as depicted in your numbers.

For example, E9a summer peak tier 3 drops from 0.45169 to 0.44575.

I might be looking at an older rate:
Date Filed September 23, 2003
Effective October 1, 2003
Oh I see. Historical rates can be found here:

http://www.pge.com/nots/rates/tariffs/electric.shtml#RESELEC
 
I look a closer look at PG&E's new electric rates.

If you are a net generator of power, you probably stand to gain a bit since now the rate for the lowest tier is higher.

If you are like me, having sized the solar PV system to eliminate only the higher tiers, than you will end up with a slightly higher electric bill (a buck or two per month).

If you are a huge consumer of electricity (going into tier 5 every month), your bill will also be lower.
 
DeaneG said:
Rat said:
We got our first full month bill for E9A...
PG&E would give your E9a without a Leaf? Somebody in Sacramento specifically refused to do that for me.
Yep. I requested it on the EV help line and the guy made the arrangements, but now I hear this issue is handled at the local level, and I know another Leaf buyer who got his E9 meter even earlier than I did and when he consulted with PG&E about a panel upgrade and how it would be metered and told told them he would be getting his Leaf soon, they came and yanked the TOU meter out because he didn't have the car yet. I definitely told the EV guy that I did not yet have the Leaf. Maybe he assumes I have a Tesla.
 
I still don't have my Leaf, or solar, but I do have a month for delivery finally (April). I've now had three bills under E9A and all three have been for more usage than last year and less cost. I realize it is dangerous to generalize, but for those without solar in Bay Area, if you can get it, it looks E9A is the way to go. Of course rates change in the summer, so do your homework, but the savings in not having to install a separate meter (which means a separate panel in my case) alone make it worthwhile.
 
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