Official VW e-Golf thread - $29,815

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Valdemar said:
The current e-Golf is 190 kilometers [118 miles] of range on paper and about 120 kilometers [75 miles] in the real world," Volkswagen Group small car development leader Dr. Jocham Böhle explained. "The Golf VIII e-Golf will have 300 kilometers [186 miles] of real-world range – genuinely 300 kilometers – and the current plug-in hybrid has 50 kilometers [31 miles] of electric range and we don't need more than that ... The electrified Golfs will all have 48-volt power. They might not be there right at the start of Golf VIII, but they will be close behind ... That system will go through all the MQB cars, with 48 volts. All hybrids and battery electric MQBs will go to 48 volts.

http://www.autoblog.com/2016/02/05/volkswagen-golf-eighth-generation-information/


There seems to be some conflict in what they are calling "real world" range.

The eGolf has an EPA range of 83 miles. So that's clearly greater than their quoted 75 miles, implying that the 186 miles may mean closer to the magic 200 EPA miles (83/75 * 186 = 206 miles!)

The Audi eTron has an EPA electric range of 16 miles. It basically has the same powertrain as the european GTE. This is far less than the stated 31 miles, implying that the 186 miles may be overly generous. Unless the 31 miles was not intended to mean "real world" miles?

Anyway, 186 miles will be a huge improvement. If they can bring this to market not too long after the Bolt / Leaf 2.0, they will be able to stay in the game. On the other hand, I've heard rumors of VW pulling out of the US market completely thanks to the diesel scandal. It seems like it will be all or nothing for them.
 
I hope they don't pull out of the US. I really liked the eGolf when I test drove it. If it had been available when I got my 2013 Leaf, I'd probably have gone with that. The eGolf is one of a handful that I plan to seriously consider when it is time for my next purchase, assuming they do come out with one by then that has adequate range for my commute. EPA range of 125+ should do the trick.
 
DarthPuppy said:
I hope they don't pull out of the US. I really liked the eGolf when I test drove it. If it had been available when I got my 2013 Leaf, I'd probably have gone with that. The eGolf is one of a handful that I plan to seriously consider when it is time for my next purchase, assuming they do come out with one by then that has adequate range for my commute. EPA range of 125+ should do the trick.

I agree 100%. I liked everything about the eGolf better than the Leaf, except that it arrived too late for me (I got my Leaf in 2012).

I'm looking for my next EV to be able to make the trip to see my family. It's about a 250 mile trip (each way), but there are currently some CCS/CHAdeMO chargers along the route about 175 miles from me. 186 miles would be tight but possible. 200+ miles would be much easier. And 250+ miles in one shot would seal the deal. I'm keeping my eye on VW, although it's not sounding good for this decade. Maybe once the MEB platform makes it into production vehicles, we'll see something. Then it's only a matter of affordability.

Of course, there are also superchargers at miles 50, 125, and 200 along the route. So making the trip in any Tesla would be a breeze.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
DarthPuppy said:
I hope they don't pull out of the US. I really liked the eGolf when I test drove it. If it had been available when I got my 2013 Leaf, I'd probably have gone with that. The eGolf is one of a handful that I plan to seriously consider when it is time for my next purchase, assuming they do come out with one by then that has adequate range for my commute. EPA range of 125+ should do the trick.

I agree 100%. I liked everything about the eGolf better than the Leaf, except that it arrived too late for me (I got my Leaf in 2012).

I'm looking for my next EV to be able to make the trip to see my family. It's about a 250 mile trip (each way), but there are currently some CCS/CHAdeMO chargers along the route about 175 miles from me. 186 miles would be tight but possible. 200+ miles would be much easier. And 250+ miles in one shot would seal the deal. I'm keeping my eye on VW, although it's not sounding good for this decade. Maybe once the MEB platform makes it into production vehicles, we'll see something. Then it's only a matter of affordability.

Of course, there are also superchargers at miles 50, 125, and 200 along the route. So making the trip in any Tesla would be a breeze.

http://autoweek.com/article/green-cars/longer-range-vw-evs-are-just-around-corner#ixzz489vmiKXK


Real world would be more like 125 to 140 miles so still quite a bit short for your scenario ... as always YMMV, so just like the first gen Volt you might get more than these estimates but any high speed driving, etc. quite doubtful. In our family, we have a last gen Golf R (2012) and have owned other VW's going back several years so if even if the first gen eGolf was available in late '11 it would also have been a top contender but as we all know, in the Midwest the LEAF was the first viable EV to get here by a long stretch. IL is NOT a part of the zero emissions states either so we pretty much never see these 'compliance' cars other than via the used market and then of course NO dealer support; that might change for VW in light of the 'dieselgate' scandal but these things take time ...
 
NeilBlanchard said:
The 2017 VW e-Golf will have a 35.8kWh battery that fits in the same space, and the range is reported to be ~124 miles. That is about a 48% improvement.

http://insideevs.com/2017-volkswagen-e-golf-35-8-kwh-battery-124-miles200km-real-world-range/

This will make it a lot better for many people, I think.

So they leapfrogged the Leaf's 30kWh battery. Maybe. Or maybe the 60kWh Leaf will be on sale in 2017. Either way, this is due out the same time as the Bolt, with ~62% of the range. I suspect it will sell well in Europe (where the Bolt won't be available in 2017), but it's likely a non-starter in the US.

ISTM that VW, like many others, is buying time. They are fitting their current design with the latest batteries, and seeing what kind of range they can get. I think they all know that the end game is a ground-up EV design. VW has the upcoming MEB platform which is rumored to be the underpinnings of the next-gen eGolf.

Don't get me wrong - I welcome the improvement. Frankly, if CCS QCs were as plentiful as gas stations, I'd be OK with 124 mile range. I don't mind stopping for 20 minutes every 100 miles. With two young kids, I have to anyway! But for now, with the near complete lack of CCS (or CHAdeMO for that matter) around me, range is king.
 
NeilBlanchard said:
The 2017 VW e-Golf will have a 35.8kWh battery that fits in the same space, and the range is reported to be ~124 miles. That is about a 48% improvement.

http://insideevs.com/2017-volkswagen-e-golf-35-8-kwh-battery-124-miles200km-real-world-range/

This will make it a lot better for many people, I think.

BTW, I'm confused as to whether this is the "186 mile" eGolf we heard about recently. It was supposed to be 186 "real world" miles, compared to "75 miles" of the current eGolf, which gets 83 EPA. It's all very confusing and the language / cultural (e.g. driving conditions of the "real world") barriers only make it worse.

I am assuming that VW is using this step as a stop-gap until they can get a second-gen eGolf based on the MEB platform which has a much longer range. But that's mostly conjecture on my part.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
I suspect it will sell well in Europe (where the Bolt won't be available in 2017), but it's likely a non-starter in the US.

Keep in mind that until the Bolt comes out and is actually tested by the EPA, our own Tony Williams, etc. we don't know if it's going to be the "200 mile" car that GM claims it will. Nissan initially claimed the Leaf was a "100 mile" car (and in some areas still claims it has 160 km range which is the same) and I don't consider GM to be any more credible.
 
RonDawg said:
Keep in mind that until the Bolt comes out and is actually tested by the EPA, our own Tony Williams, etc. we don't know if it's going to be the "200 mile" car that GM claims it will. Nissan initially claimed the Leaf was a "100 mile" car (and in some areas still claims it has 160 km range which is the same) and I don't consider GM to be any more credible.
They've certainly been a lot more credible with their claims re the Volt.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I'd consider the eGolf as my next car with that size pack, but only if they gave it a steering wheel heater. Little things matter too.
Agree, that and heat for all 4 seats, something even the cheapest Leaf(S model) has :cool:
 
GRA said:
RonDawg said:
Keep in mind that until the Bolt comes out and is actually tested by the EPA, our own Tony Williams, etc. we don't know if it's going to be the "200 mile" car that GM claims it will. Nissan initially claimed the Leaf was a "100 mile" car (and in some areas still claims it has 160 km range which is the same) and I don't consider GM to be any more credible.
They've certainly been a lot more credible with their claims re the Volt.

Yes they have. Also, the Bolt has a 60kWh battery. The upgraded eGolf will have about 36kWh. The Bolt pretty much can't NOT have significantly more range under any given scenario.
 
jjeff said:
LeftieBiker said:
I'd consider the eGolf as my next car with that size pack, but only if they gave it a steering wheel heater. Little things matter too.
Agree, that and heat for all 4 seats, something even the cheapest Leaf(S model) has :cool:

Actually, I think they've dropped rear seat heaters as a standard item, at least on the S and SV - IIRC.
 
If I read that correctly, this improved range e-Golf will be out this year as a 2017. Awesome!!! :D

I really liked the e-Golf when I test drove it. And one that has 124 mile 'real world' range should work for my commute. Now to start scrounging my pennies...
 
GRA said:
RonDawg said:
I don't consider GM to be any more credible.
They've certainly been a lot more credible with their claims re the Volt.

But they weren't initially credible about defective ignition switches:

On September 17 2015, General Motors entered into a Deferred Prosecution Agreement with the United States Department of Justice, in which GM admitted that "from in or about the spring of 2012 through in or about February 2014, GM failed to disclose a deadly safety defect to its U.S. regulator... It also falsely represented to consumers that vehicles containing the defect posed no safety concern."[5]

Source: Wikipedia, citing: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-us-attorney-announces-criminal-charges-against-general-motors-and-deferred

Nobody's died that I know of because their "100 mile Leaf" only made it to the EPA-rated 83 miles or whatever.

Perhaps things at GM will change permanently under Mary Barra's leadership, and that something like this won't happen again (at least while she's boss) but GM finally admitting their mistake didn't occur until some time after she took the helm; Sen. Barbara Boxer even slammed her during her testimony for not knowing why it took so long for this problem to come to light.

In other words, I'll believe it when I see it. I just don't trust car companies anymore...ANY of them. Between Nissan's fudging of actual range of the Leaf, GM (and others) not admitting their vehicles have a serious safety defect until faced with immense public and/or political pressure, Ford/Hyundai/Mitsubishi/others lying about the fuel economy of their cars, and now VW (and possibly others) putting in defeat devices to fool emission testing, I just don't take anything they say at face value anymore.
 
RonDawg said:
GRA said:
RonDawg said:
I don't consider GM to be any more credible.
They've certainly been a lot more credible with their claims re the Volt.

But they weren't initially credible about defective ignition switches:

On September 17 2015, General Motors entered into a Deferred Prosecution Agreement with the United States Department of Justice, in which GM admitted that "from in or about the spring of 2012 through in or about February 2014, GM failed to disclose a deadly safety defect to its U.S. regulator... It also falsely represented to consumers that vehicles containing the defect posed no safety concern."[5]

Source: Wikipedia, citing: https://www.justice.gov/usao-sdny/pr/manhattan-us-attorney-announces-criminal-charges-against-general-motors-and-deferred

Nobody's died that I know of because their "100 mile Leaf" only made it to the EPA-rated 83 miles or whatever.

Perhaps things at GM will change permanently under Mary Barra's leadership, and that something like this won't happen again (at least while she's boss) but GM finally admitting their mistake didn't occur until some time after she took the helm; Sen. Barbara Boxer even slammed her during her testimony for not knowing why it took so long for this problem to come to light.

In other words, I'll believe it when I see it.

The ignition switch fiasco was a nightmare for customers and a disaster for GM.

That said, I fail to see how this has any bearing on the discussion at hand. GRA simply stated that GM was credible with regards to range claims. The conclusion being that the Bolt will most likely have a 200+ mile EPA range.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
That said, I fail to see how this has any bearing on the discussion at hand. GRA simply stated that GM was credible with regards to range claims. The conclusion being that the Bolt will most likely have a 200+ mile EPA range.

See my added paragraph.
 
Sheesh, people. It's some pretty easy math to figure out the Bolt's range since we have the battery capacity. Worst case, assume that 60 kWh is total and there's 52 kWh available. That means you only need to hit 3.8 m/kWh to get 200 miles. In the city, that should be easy. I think people will hit 230 miles in the city, easy. Freeway? It's a true hatch and quite tall, so likely not very aerodynamic. I'm going to guess 192 miles freeway.
 
pkulak said:
Sheesh, people. It's some pretty easy math to figure out the Bolt's range since we have the battery capacity. Worst case, assume that 60 kWh is total and there's 52 kWh available. That means you only need to hit 3.8 m/kWh to get 200 miles. In the city, that should be easy. I think people will hit 230 miles in the city, easy. Freeway? It's a true hatch and quite tall, so likely not very aerodynamic. I'm going to guess 192 miles freeway.
I think your estimates are credible. We now know the base Model 3 will apparently have less than 60kWh - I don't see how they could go below 50kWh usable, so say a minimum of 55kWh total. Even so, getting 215 miles EPA out of 50 kWh usable will be difficult. It may still do better on the freeway than the Bolt, as it should have better CdA.

Back OT, 200 km/124 miles EPA for the e-Golf may well be viable for a fair number of people as local/commute cars, but only if they drop the base price considerably, to well under $30k. I still think that 150 miles EPA for <=$30k is the point at which the general public will seriously start to consider BEVs, but the 50 extra miles of the 200 mile cars will give them true Regional + ability, as well as buying another 3-5 years of viability as local/commute cars.
 
GRA said:
Back OT, 200 km/124 miles EPA for the e-Golf may well be viable for a fair number of people as local/commute cars, but only if they drop the base price considerably, to well under $30k. I still think that 150 miles EPA for <=$30k is the point at which the general public will seriously start to consider BEVs, but the 50 extra miles of the 200 mile cars will give them true Regional + ability, as well as buying another 3-5 years of viability as local/commute cars.

I think the present price point is viable thanks to incentives. The ICE Golf starts at $20k. The e-Golf starts at $29k. With the federal and California incentives, the e-Golf can be had for a net $19k. And then you have all of the savings of not having to buy gas, do oil changes, longer lasting brakes, etc. And my commute would benefit greatly from HOV access if that is still available.

The flip side is the likely fast depreciation. But that only really bites you if you sell it or it gets into an accident and the insurance sticks you with a small check. Granted, one could reasonably expect an ICE Golf to run 10-20 years and go 200k+ miles. So we aren't apples-apples. In theory, the e-golf should be able to do that too, just with replacing the batteries, which is probably less than the gas, oil changes, etc. accumulate to by the time the battery needs to be changed. However, as noted elsewhere on this forum, people are reluctant to invest in batteries for a number of reasons.

The above of course assumes VW doesn't jack the price up on the 2017.
 
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