EVgo nrv QC display -- questions

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redLEAF

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 26, 2010
Messages
1,752
Location
Chicago, IL
As we're getting our street repaved soon and our '12 LEAF SL w/QC (and down 1 capacity bar) won't have access to our garage L2 charger decided to activate that 'free' EZ-Charge card now (part of that settlement on the whole battery degradation issue) as it will more than cover the time I'll need it --- plus, never really had a need for the QC as we don't drive that far so felt it was time to try it as it's no cost ... anyway here is the scenario and question:

We did plenty of errands yesterday so GOM read out was 9 miles of range left, initial low battery warning flashing, just 1 battery capacity bar left. I plugged in and started charging on an EVgo nrv QC charger and the display shows I still have 25% of the battery left?? I snapped a quick photo after just a few minutes of charging and you can see after about 2 1/2 minutes it had jumped to 32%. At 100% charged of course the battery was not 100% but 9/12 charged (or about 75%) as I understand the fast charging will max at about 80% with a healthy battery as it restricts it due to heat from putting so much juice so quickly, etc. -- I did also see my battery temp increase by 1 bar as I would expect it. After it finished, it was fairly close to when I charge it at home on my L2 at 80% during the week; so the question is ... what percent capacity does the battery have left at a single capacity bar on the read out? I guess its compared to running an ICE when the gauge is on the 'empty' line (how lucky do you feel you'll make it to the next gas station) ... but 25% seems high, but then again perhaps there is some kind of logic that automatically puts a buffer in their system so it doesn't go past 80% ... I would have thought at 1 bar left that would be less than 10% (I know the bars are not linear but this seems off; 1 bar would be 8.333% if linear on a scale of 100%). I'm not going to worry about it but just seems strange ... has anyone seen this and can offer an explanation? BTW, QC charge took about 25 minutes; about what I expected; very nice and quick system and the card worked the first time --- much better than ChargePoint; of course I'd rather just get a 'free' refreshed battery but maybe if I use QC every day it will speed up the degradation --- and no, don't plan on doing that!


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There is a lot of capacity hidden below the first low battery warning. 25% seems about right for a 2011 or 2012 with latest software updates. I never used an EVgo charger with the 2011 (because we did not have any in Phoenix until recently), but the Blink units let you select the desired charge level in 10% increments. If you select 100% and the battery is below LBW, charging will stop at about 80% SOC. If SOC is above LBW when you start charging, a setting of 100% will get to over 90% SOC. If you need a full charge and no one is waiting, you could initiate another charge session after charging stops at 80% (at your expense since the terms of the NCTC card limit duration to 30 minutes and require some time between charging sessions for free charging).

Gerry
 
I forget why, but the QC % readout never matched the car on the 2012 we had. If you dig around in old threads it was explained. If you're at one bar or less, you sure don't have 25%, and you should really consider LeafSpy, the only way to know exactly how much juice you have left.
 
BTW, around here, that display is one I've seen on a Chargepoint station, and only on Chargepoint -- the EVgo stations have something different. I think it's connected to the manufacturer of the charger rather than the network operator.
 
wmcbrine said:
BTW, around here, that display is one I've seen on a Chargepoint station, and only on Chargepoint -- the EVgo stations have something different. I think it's connected to the manufacturer of the charger rather than the network operator.
That brings me to a question I have about Chargepoint. On their app I located a free station downtown and when I arrived it says EVgo on the units. I looked at the screen and it says Chargepoint. There was already a Ford charging and I could see by his unit screen he was getting a charge so I tried my Chargepoint card and couldn't start a charge. I didn't have time to call them but I'm now wondering if my card should have worked or if units with an EVgo logo require something different even if it says Chargepoint on the screen and appears on the Chargepoint app?
 
OK -- here's a follow up; still related to what's displayed on QC chargers versus what its actually telling you, etc. -- this time went to another NCTC station but a different mfg. (ABB) and I'm showing a display where it charged to 90% --- again, 90% of what??? As I was a bit concerned of over taxing what the battery could take (because even at 90% it was still charging) I hit stop and it released the QC connector (it 'locks' on this model). After disconnecting and turning the car on, it was definitely more than 80% but less than 100% charged, so on these models would it charge the car all the way to 100% in QC?

I was pleased to see that this unit was working as well as noticed that someone had used the CCS mode to 92% (look below the Chademo listing in the left of the photo).

This charger is in the Woodfield Mall, Schaumburg, IL in-between JC Penney and Nordstrom outside the Panda Express and Red Robin restaurants -- a bit of an odd location as its out in the parking lot fairly far away from the buildings so they definitely had to run a lot of underground cabling. So, what am I seeing at 90% ?

The battery did increase its temp in my car by one bar and this was a basic test to make sure the charger would work (my car had about 1/3 charge left); ambient outside temp about 80 F

IMG_0348.JPG

The other kind of weird thing is that before it reaches a higher state of charge, the indicator shows another graphic that shows minutes (2nd photo shows 44 minutes); what exactly is that representing --- if you were using an L1 or L2 charger??, doesn't seem to make sense --- and lastly, there is a speaker 'grill' (just above the display) so I would guess this might be for vocal instructions? Nothing came out of it so don't know.
 

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redLEAF said:
... and I'm showing a display where it charged to 90% --- again, 90% of what?
90% of the car's capacity. What else?

As I was a bit concerned of over taxing what the battery could take
I'm quite sure the car can manage that on its own.
 
I don't pay attention the %-ages shown by the quick chargers, they don't make much sense on my 2011, it's best to use LeafSpy or if not then charge bars or even the GOM.
 
Valdemar said:
I don't pay attention the %-ages shown by the quick chargers, they don't make much sense on my 2011, it's best to use LeafSpy or if not then charge bars or even the GOM.
FWIW, when I had a '13 w/CHAdeMO, the car's on-board SoC % display matched or was within 1% of what was on the DC FC.

I only ever used the tall Nissan-branded/Sumitomo $15K units.
 
I've done plenty of "bottom of the capacity" testing in my '13 and 1 bar on the battery gauge is roughly 5% where on the '13 and newer models, the capacity gauge drops below 6% and then turns into --- to let you know it's just guessing afterwards :?
But really, the vehicle does know what it has. I've driven mine with LeafSpy until about 1% and then limp over to Nissan HQ, plug in the QC and it starts charging right at 1% like LeafSpy shows.

On the 2011, 2012 models, they don't have a capacity percent dash mode, but my guess is if you are down to 1 bar on the capacity, it's just below 6% capacity and when that final bar disappears (no bars), they are around the 3% capacity. That is the way it shows on the '13 anyway. Now, plugging into the QC, my only guess is that some math issues are making the QC think the remaining charge is higher than it should be and with no dash meter to check against, it can get kind of confusing to owners (hence why the '13 and newer models added that charge gauge to help make it less confusing).

I'm not sure how the vehicle communicates the charge % to the QC or if the QC is doing some calculation to guess at the remaining capacity. If anyone has a '12 SL w/QC in the Nissan HQ area, let me know, will be glad to hook up LeafSpy and the QC at Nissan HQ (free 24/7) to play around with some capacity testing.
 
To have an intelligent conversation about displays and unique characteristics of charge equipment is impossible without being able to actually identify the equipment. I hope the following helps with basic understanding:

The NETWORK installs and owns the charger, plus takes your money like mobile phone networks (ATT or Verizon). The charger manufacturer (like Apple iPhone or Samsung Galaxy) design, builds and programs the phones. So it wouldn't make much sense to say my AT&T phone does X, Y or Z without identifying it as an iPhone or a Samsung Galaxy, or some other kind of phone.

There is a teeny tiny amount of crossover. Some networks have the displays or software uniquely modified for their network. For instance, network provider NRG eVgo has all of its chargers on a 30 minute timer, regardless of the manufacturer of the charger. Both Blink and AeroVironment are unique because they both manufactured the DC charging equipment and are also network providers. Neither of them currently produced DC charging equipment, nor have they done so for several years.

Some Networks in the USA:

1) ChargePoint - no monthly charge, largest network by far, but not so big on DC chargers. Cost varies by individual charger. Uses primarily Titium Veefil chargers that are built in Australia.

2) AeroVironment - West Coast Electric Highway, recommended $20 per month, free unlimited charging (Oregon and Washington states). Fantastic and dependable, well placed through those two states only (Washington and Oregon). Uses only their own manufactured legacy DC chargers, which are no longer produced.

3) NRG / eVgo - recommended $14.95 per month, $3 per thirty minute timed charge (if charging more than thirty minutes, the session needs to be restarted). Their billing department is ATROCIOUS !!! Quickly spreading nationwide. Uses chargers from BTC (final assembly in California), ABB (Swiss) and Nissan / Sumitomo (Japan, no longer in production).

4) Greenlots - an "up and comer", no monthly fee, generally free sessions at Kia dealers. Uses only ABB.

5) OPconnect - very small, but they have been very useful in locations that I go. Uses various charger manufactures including EFacec.

6) Blink / Car Charging - absolutley the worst equipment on the planet. All paid for with over $100 MILLION in tax payer funds. Only about 60 working units nationwide, and that's on a good day. This company will once again be bankrupt in the very very near future.

7) EVconnect - small but growing, various DC charger manufacturers are used.

8) SEMAconnect - no DC chargers yet



This following list has nothing to do with who's network sticker is on the charger, but instead is the actual manufacturers of the charger used by the networks. The typical amperage is listed, too:

ABB - 120amps - used by NRG and others, very dependable, Swiss company

Blink - 120 / 125 amps - Blink / Car Charging only, complete garbage, will be bankrupt soon

BTC - 100 amps - used by NRG and others

Nissan (Sumitomo) - 115 amps - used by NRG, ChargePoint, and others. Unit no longer in production.

Efacec - 120 amps - used by Greenlots and others

Signet Systems - 120 and 200 amps - used by Greenlots and others. The 200 amp version is frequently marketed as 100kW.

Aerovironment - 120/125 amps - almost exclusively used by the AeroVironment network - West Coast Electric Highway

Tritium Veefil - 125 amps - used by ChargePoint

Eaton DC Quick Charger - 50 to 120 amps - networks vary

Others:

Aker Wade Level III Fast Charger
Andromeda Power ORCA-Mobile
Delta EV DC Quick Charger
Epyon Power Terra 50.1 Charge Station
EVTEC PublicFastCharger
Fuji
Nichicon Quick Charger
JFE
Schneider Electric Fast Charger
 
Nice info, Tony! I hadn't known that Aerovironment had ceased production; that's kind of sad. Maybe if another state wanted to electrify its roads, they'd whip up another batch.

Not that it would matter to most forum readers, but do you happen to know which, if any of the DC fast chargers are compliant with the CHAdeMO standard (referring to Jack Rickert's observation that the stations he and his colleagues tested weren't able to work into batteries with too LOW a voltage)?
 
Levenkay said:
Nice info, Tony! I hadn't known that Aerovironment had ceased production; that's kind of sad. Maybe if another state wanted to electrify its roads, they'd whip up another batch.

Not that it would matter to most forum readers, but do you happen to know which, if any of the DC fast chargers are compliant with the CHAdeMO standard (referring to Jack Rickert's observation that the stations he and his colleagues tested weren't able to work into batteries with too LOW a voltage)?

The Washington and Oregon project was a federal grant, not likely to be repeated.

I have no idea what Jack does, or is doing, so I can't comment on his ideas directly. I will say that there are noncompliant CHAdeMO chargers that won't charge batteries below 200V or 250V

CHAdeMO standard is 50 to 500 volts.


******

How is the Washington state's electric highway funded?
This project is structured as a public-private partnership whereby the costs are shared by the public sector, the private sector, and the users. Much of the funding is provided by the federal government as part of the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. In Oregon, the state’s charging network is funded with a combination of U.S. Department of Energy and U.S. Department of Transportation grants.

In Washington, initial funding was provided by the US Department of Energy through the State Energy Program (SEP). The Washington State Department of Commerce leads the program for the State of Washington. Commerce invests this federal SEP funding in projects that achieve energy and environmental policy goals. Commerce is invested $1.6 million of SEP grants as seed funding and WSDOT developed the partnerships to implement the Electric Highways network with private businesses, other agencies and electric vehicle drivers.
 
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