Discuss data from the LEAF Battery app, and Comparisons

My Nissan Leaf Forum

Help Support My Nissan Leaf Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Hello there Hoping someone who knows more than me about how to interpret Leafspy data can tell me how the battery on a friends Leaf looks- it's a 2013 he bought in April (data taken then) after I told him how much I loved my used 2013 I bought a month or so earlier...

Any feedback gratefully received!

file.php
 
Hi. My partner and I are looking at buying a Leaf and have been using LeafSpy Pro to check out second hand cars. We test drove a 2013 Leaf with 40k+ km (25k+ miles) on the odo and got the following Battery Status:

AHr=67.36
SOH=100%
Hx=104.11%
106 QCs & 3114 L1/L2s
min/avg/max=3.931, 3.936, 3.941 (10mv)
Temp C=8.6, 8.4, 8.7 (F=47.4, 47.1, 47.6)
All of the Cell Pairs except 1 were showing red and this was consistent for the 2km test trip we did.

This all seems a bit weird for a 3 year old car with 40k+ km on the clock? Any ideas on what is going on?

After the drive I noticed that I had the LeafSpy Pro set to 2011 Year. would this have effected any of the values returned by LeafSpy Pro? Also note that this is a ex Japan import (as are most of the Leafs on sale here in New Zealand).
 
Catflyer said:
Hi. My partner and I are looking at buying a Leaf and have been using LeafSpy Pro to check out second hand cars. We test drove a 2013 Leaf with 40k+ km (25k+ miles) on the odo and got the following Battery Status:

AHr=67.36
SOH=100%
Hx=104.11%
106 QCs & 3114 L1/L2s
min/avg/max=3.931, 3.936, 3.941 (10mv)
Temp C=8.6, 8.4, 8.7 (F=47.4, 47.1, 47.6)
All of the Cell Pairs except 1 were showing red and this was consistent for the 2km test trip we did.

This all seems a bit weird for a 3 year old car with 40k+ km on the clock? Any ideas on what is going on?

After the drive I noticed that I had the LeafSpy Pro set to 2011 Year. would this have effected any of the values returned by LeafSpy Pro? Also note that this is a ex Japan import (as are most of the Leafs on sale here in New Zealand).

The AHr, SOH, and Hx values are about what a new battery would have so I believe there are three possibilities:
1) The battery was just replaced and the car has not been driven more than a few kilometers.
2) Someone fraudulently reset the LBC (lithium battery controller also called the BMS or battery management system). If so, the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers will drop rapidly as the car is used on a daily basis.
3) The car has way more charge cycles than one would expect for the number of kilometers it has been driven. The car may have only been driven very short distances and recharged so it has never been discharged enough for the LBC to determine the true battery capacity and condition. If so, the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers will drop as the car is used and the battery is deeply discharged once in a while.

I doubt that having Leaf Spy set for 2011 would cause incorrect readings of AHr, SOH, and Hx values. It is normal to have many of the cell pairs showing red (shunts active for cell balancing) under certain conditions so that by itself is not a concern (my 2015 shows mostly red when I start driving after charging). To give you some numbers for comparison, here are the latest from my 2015 when parked last night with new values in parentheses: AHr=55.28 (64.38), SOH=89% (100%), Hx=83.37% (101.25%), odometer=25,590 miles (9 miles when initial Leaf Spy readings were taken on February 7, 2015), QC=23 (1), and L1/L2=432 (4). Battery temperatures when parked last night were 108.6 F, 106.7 F, and 104.9 F.

Gerry
 
GerryAZ said:
Catflyer said:
Hi. My partner and I are looking at buying a Leaf and have been using LeafSpy Pro to check out second hand cars. We test drove a 2013 Leaf with 40k+ km (25k+ miles) on the odo and got the following Battery Status:

AHr=67.36
SOH=100%
Hx=104.11%
106 QCs & 3114 L1/L2s
min/avg/max=3.931, 3.936, 3.941 (10mv)
Temp C=8.6, 8.4, 8.7 (F=47.4, 47.1, 47.6)
All of the Cell Pairs except 1 were showing red and this was consistent for the 2km test trip we did.

This all seems a bit weird for a 3 year old car with 40k+ km on the clock? Any ideas on what is going on?

After the drive I noticed that I had the LeafSpy Pro set to 2011 Year. would this have effected any of the values returned by LeafSpy Pro? Also note that this is a ex Japan import (as are most of the Leafs on sale here in New Zealand).

The AHr, SOH, and Hx values are about what a new battery would have so I believe there are three possibilities:
1) The battery was just replaced and the car has not been driven more than a few kilometers.
2) Someone fraudulently reset the LBC (lithium battery controller also called the BMS or battery management system). If so, the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers will drop rapidly as the car is used on a daily basis.
3) The car has way more charge cycles than one would expect for the number of kilometers it has been driven. The car may have only been driven very short distances and recharged so it has never been discharged enough for the LBC to determine the true battery capacity and condition. If so, the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers will drop as the car is used and the battery is deeply discharged once in a while.

I doubt that having Leaf Spy set for 2011 would cause incorrect readings of AHr, SOH, and Hx values. It is normal to have many of the cell pairs showing red (shunts active for cell balancing) under certain conditions so that by itself is not a concern (my 2015 shows mostly red when I start driving after charging). To give you some numbers for comparison, here are the latest from my 2015 when parked last night with new values in parentheses: AHr=55.28 (64.38), SOH=89% (100%), Hx=83.37% (101.25%), odometer=25,590 miles (9 miles when initial Leaf Spy readings were taken on February 7, 2015), QC=23 (1), and L1/L2=432 (4). Battery temperatures when parked last night were 108.6 F, 106.7 F, and 104.9 F.

Gerry
Thanks Gerry for your insights!
1) battery would have had to have been replaced in Japan just before it was shipped to here. I think the car has been with the dealer/importer for just under a month and I think it has done about 170kms since getting here - is that few enough?
2) this was my suspicion but most of the dealers here with Leafs for sale are ICE dudes and know very very little about EVs at all. So far the main selling point the sales dudes have tired on me is that the Leaf accelerates really really fast! Could the LBC have been reset just before it was shipped from Japan and still be showing those numbers? How easy is it to reset the LBC?
3) you have a good point here - would you expect under a 1000 L1/L2 charges for a car of this age? Again, my point about the NZ dealers - almost certainly they are charging to 100% most days the car is used and the sales dude said that his boss had been using this one a bit. I would have thought that the numbers would have dropped a bit from 100% though.

The main thing I found odd with the cell pairs showing red is that the trip log csv file seems to show that all the cell pairs, except one, had shunts active for all of the 2km trip and that the blue pair was always the same pair.
 
GerryAZ said:
Catflyer said:
Hi. My partner and I are looking at buying a Leaf and have been using LeafSpy Pro to check out second hand cars. We test drove a 2013 Leaf with 40k+ km (25k+ miles) on the odo and got the following Battery Status:

AHr=67.36
SOH=100%
Hx=104.11%
106 QCs & 3114 L1/L2s
min/avg/max=3.931, 3.936, 3.941 (10mv)
Temp C=8.6, 8.4, 8.7 (F=47.4, 47.1, 47.6)
All of the Cell Pairs except 1 were showing red and this was consistent for the 2km test trip we did.

This all seems a bit weird for a 3 year old car with 40k+ km on the clock? Any ideas on what is going on?

After the drive I noticed that I had the LeafSpy Pro set to 2011 Year. would this have effected any of the values returned by LeafSpy Pro? Also note that this is a ex Japan import (as are most of the Leafs on sale here in New Zealand).

The AHr, SOH, and Hx values are about what a new battery would have so I believe there are three possibilities:
1) The battery was just replaced and the car has not been driven more than a few kilometers.
2) Someone fraudulently reset the LBC (lithium battery controller also called the BMS or battery management system). If so, the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers will drop rapidly as the car is used on a daily basis.
3) The car has way more charge cycles than one would expect for the number of kilometers it has been driven. The car may have only been driven very short distances and recharged so it has never been discharged enough for the LBC to determine the true battery capacity and condition. If so, the AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers will drop as the car is used and the battery is deeply discharged once in a while.

I doubt that having Leaf Spy set for 2011 would cause incorrect readings of AHr, SOH, and Hx values. It is normal to have many of the cell pairs showing red (shunts active for cell balancing) under certain conditions so that by itself is not a concern (my 2015 shows mostly red when I start driving after charging). To give you some numbers for comparison, here are the latest from my 2015 when parked last night with new values in parentheses: AHr=55.28 (64.38), SOH=89% (100%), Hx=83.37% (101.25%), odometer=25,590 miles (9 miles when initial Leaf Spy readings were taken on February 7, 2015), QC=23 (1), and L1/L2=432 (4). Battery temperatures when parked last night were 108.6 F, 106.7 F, and 104.9 F.

Gerry
Only just done the sums on the L1/L2 charge number - 3114 charges, assuming 4 years (being generous) that is 208 weeks = approx 15 charges per week on average. Seems very excessive.
 
My best guess is that the exporter in Japan or the importer in New Zealand reset the LBC (using Consult 3+ which most dealers and many independent shops have). I think it could easily go 170 km without capacity numbers dropping if the battery was never significantly discharged. As I said before, the cell-pair shunting you noticed is nothing to be concerned about--I consider it normal because my 2015 often does that after charging. One way to confirm the battery capacity is to start with a full charge and drive until you get down to LBW or VLBW (low battery warning or very low battery warning). Compare the driving distance with the range charts Tony Williams created to determine the true battery capacity. The high charge count could be partly explained if charging and climate control timers were used a lot because they can add extra L1/L2 charge counts. The 106 quick charges is also a little more than I would expect, but not really detrimental. 25,000 miles divided by 3220 charges is only 8 miles per charge average. If each charge cycle increased count by 3 due to timer use, the average travel distance per charge goes up to 24 which is more reasonable.

Gerry
 
GerryAZ said:
My best guess is that the exporter in Japan or the importer in New Zealand reset the LBC (using Consult 3+ which most dealers and many independent shops have). I think it could easily go 170 km without capacity numbers dropping if the battery was never significantly discharged. As I said before, the cell-pair shunting you noticed is nothing to be concerned about--I consider it normal because my 2015 often does that after charging. One way to confirm the battery capacity is to start with a full charge and drive until you get down to LBW or VLBW (low battery warning or very low battery warning). Compare the driving distance with the range charts Tony Williams created to determine the true battery capacity. The high charge count could be partly explained if charging and climate control timers were used a lot because they can add extra L1/L2 charge counts. The 106 quick charges is also a little more than I would expect, but not really detrimental. 25,000 miles divided by 3220 charges is only 8 miles per charge average. If each charge cycle increased count by 3 due to timer use, the average travel distance per charge goes up to 24 which is more reasonable.

Gerry

Thanks again for the info Gerry. I will have a wee look at the range charts but because the car is at a dealers I don't really have an option to do a LBW or VLBW test, unfortunately. I have a few other options here so will go take them for a drive and see what numbers I can get from them.
 
Seeking some expert advice on what to make of this Leafspy data. Attaching a set of screen shots from Oct. 2015 and the same from August 2016. Am I looking at a bar drop some time soon? What do these numbers and variation means?





 
Seems like this thread should be merged with http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=12789 or one of the Leaf Spy threads.

Have you looked at http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Leaf_Spy_Pro as well as the help built into the app? Also see http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=455984#p455984.

The variance in voltage between cells is normal and always going to happen. However, if one or more is WAY out of whack, that generally indicates a faulty cell. 16 mV max variance is totally normal.
 
I did try to look up the links you posted. It seems the screenshots provided are older and the software has been updated. I just need to understand what the difference in AHr , SOH, V and Hx numbers means?

Meantime I just realized I've lost a bar !!
 
inphoenix said:
I did try to look up the links you posted. It seems the screenshots provided are older and the software has been updated. I just need to understand what the difference in AHr , SOH, V and Hx numbers means?
How about the help in the app? That's more up to date. For me, it's accessible via the 3 dots menu in the lower right > About & Help > Application Help.

You can also email the author for a copy of the manual.

Nissan hasn't documented any of the stuff on the CAN bus, its accuracy or lack of and under what conditions the values can be trusted or how they should be interpreted, if at all. Leaf Spy is just outputting to the screen what the author knows about. How to interpret them is just educated guesswork, at best, based upon reports from many people and the author's own observations, unless Nissan has publicly or privately given some guidance to the author or others about these values.

V is an easy one. That's voltage. The voltage in the hundreds is the total pack voltage. See https://evseupgrade.com/?main_page=faq_info&faqs_id=26 for some basics. http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/Battery_specs has some info on pack and cell specs.

There have been plenty of threads to discuss data/how to interpret them. Not sure why you needed to start a new thread. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=456462#p456462 was an answer re: Hx.
 
Weird, I have found another 2013 Leaf at a different dealer that is showing SOH=100% on LeafSpy Pro. This one was manufacturered Jan 2013 and only has 4800 mile (7800km) on the clock. Showing the following Battery Status:

AHr=66.47
SOH=100%
Hx=102.01%
3 QCs & 235 L1/L2s
min/avg/max=4.087, 4.097, 4.105 (18mv)
Temp C=11.0, 11.1, 11.2 (F=51.8, 52.0, 52.2)

It has very low mileage but I would have thought that it still would not be showing SOH of 100%? Anyone else seeing this happening or have an idea on what is going on? I would consider the NZ dealer in this case to be very reputable, as opposed to the dealer in my earlier post who definitely has a dodgy reputation.
 
^^^^
With that low of mileage and in service time it is most likely that someone used Consult III and either fraudulently or inadvertantly cleared the long term capacity information.

That is only supposed to be done after a new pack is installed.
My new warranty replacement pack #s are about the same.

But an old packs #s will do the same for a period of time.
 
TimLee said:
^^^^
With that low of mileage and in service time it is most likely that someone used Consult III and either fraudulently or inadvertantly cleared the long term capacity information.

That is only supposed to be done after a new pack is installed.
My new warranty replacement pack #s are about the same.

But an old packs #s will do the same for a period of time.

Thanks Tim, that is my thoughts as well, unfortunately. Annoying as it is a nice looking car with almost all the features we are looking for. There must be something dodgy going on with some of the Japanese dealers / auction houses.
 
Catflyer said:
It has very low mileage but I would have thought that it still would not be showing SOH of 100%?
Well, it usually doesn't take much driving to get the Hx value to drop if the BMC was reset. A few test drives should be enough to bring it down.
 
drees said:
Catflyer said:
It has very low mileage but I would have thought that it still would not be showing SOH of 100%?
Well, it usually doesn't take much driving to get the Hx value to drop if the BMC was reset. A few test drives should be enough to bring it down.
Are you talking about Hx or SOH or both? I tend to look mainly at SOH since Hx seems to be a lesser know value. The dealers are not that keen on letting you take the same car for for than one test drive - in fact, taking two different Leaf's for a test drive from the same dealer's lot has resulted in the a couple of dealers asking why I would want to do that as they all drive the same! The response is, of course, I would never buy a car without doing a test drive on it!

As I said above, this is the second 2013 Leaf that I have found with SOH=100%. Two different dealers, both Japanese Imports. Weird.
 
Cat flyer,

The low-mileage 2013 LEAF you looked at might be displaying battery parameters correctly. I just looked back through my records and see that my 2015 had the following readings at 7053 miles on 05/30/2015: AHr=64.38 (64.38), SOH=100% (100%), Hx=102.51% (101.25%), QC=6 (1), and L1/L2=140 (4). The readings at 9689 miles on 07/18/2015: AHr=62.63, SOH=100%, Hx=97.34%, QC=6, and L1/L2=185. My data shows that SOH stayed at 100% for some time after AHr and Hx started to drop. Numbers in parentheses are initial readings I took at 9 miles on 02/07/2015. My charge counts are lower than average because I rarely get extra L1/L2 charge counts from climate control and charge timer use.

I would expect the parameters on the 2013 you were looking at to drop some once it is driven and charged routinely and deeply discharged once in a while because some degradation due to time has probably happened while sitting. It is likely as good as you will find for a 2013. Good luck in your search for a LEAF.

Gerry
 
Its getting close to losing 4th Bar. Ahr is now 43.45
Missed the Warranty period back on July 7, 2016. Its now Oct 6, 2016.
Last battery report done at Nissan dealer on July 15, 2016.

Updated 10/6/2016:

2011 Silver Leaf (all updates applied, QC=58, L1/L2=1602), 54,516 miles
06/28/13: AHr=58.84 CAP=88.81%. Hlth= n/a
10/25/13: AHr=57.87 CAP=87.87%. Hlth=85.33%
03/10/14: AHr=56.05 CAP=81.61%. Hlth=81.75% (lost 12th bar sometime in Mar, 2014)
05/18/14: AHr=55.10 CAP=83.16%. Hlth=79.88%
08/19/14: AHr=52.95 CAP=79.91%. Hlth=63.69% (SOC is 90.1%, 214 GIDs 76.2%)
10/14/14: AHr=51.97 CAP=78.45%. Hlth=61.36%
12/04/14: AHr=51.57 CAP=77.83%. Hlth=60.37% (lost 11th bar on 12/03/14)
02/16/15: AHr=50.64 CAP=76.44%. Hlth=58.21%
07/25/15: AHr=49.21 CAP=74.28%. Hlth=54.85%
10/26/15: AHr=47.61 CAP=71.85%. Hlth=51.98%, GIDS=202 (lost the 10th bar sometime in Oct/Nov 2015)
03/24/16: AHr=46.20 CAP=69.73%. Hlth=49.68%, GIDS=196
04/12/16: AHr=46.00 CAP=69.43%. Hlth=49.34%, GIDS=196
05/11/16: AHr=45.54 CAP=68.73%. Hlth=48.59%, GIDS=181
10/6/16: AHr=43.45 CAP=65.58%. Hlth=45.17%, GIDS=182

Date of Manufacture: 05/11, took delivery 1st week of July, 2011.
 
Data for our Blue Leaf: Updated 10/8/2016.

2011 Blue Leaf (all updates applied, QC=31, L1/L2=2115), 57,492 miles
09/23/13: AHr=57.03 CAP=86.07%. Hlth=83.67%
05/11/14: AHr=55.10 CAP=79.89%. Hlth=85.33% (lost 12th bar sometime in Mar, 2014)
10/13/14: AHr=51.61 CAP=77.89%. Hlth=60.45% (lost 11th bar on 10/13/14)
02/16/15: AHr=50.70 CAP=76.60%. Hlth=58.47%
07/25/15: AHr=49.17 CAP=74.22%. Hlth=54.76%
10/26/15: AHr=47.55 CAP=71.76%. Hlth=51.88%, GIDS=191 (lost 10th bar on 10/26/15)
03/28/16: AHr=45.97 CAP=69.38%. Hlth=49.29%, GIDS=197
04/12/16: AHr=45.96 CAP=69.37%. Hlth=49.28%, GIDS=195
05/03/16: AHr=45.76 CAP=69.06%. Hlth=48.94%, GIDS=180
10/8/16: AHr=43.54 CAP=65.71%. Hlth=45.31%, GIDS=181


Date of Manufacture: 05/11, took delivery 1st week of July, 2011.

mxp said:
Its getting close to losing 4th Bar. Ahr is now 43.45
Missed the Warranty period back on July 7, 2016. Its now Oct 6, 2016.
Last battery report done at Nissan dealer on July 15, 2016.

Updated 10/6/2016:

2011 Silver Leaf (all updates applied, QC=58, L1/L2=1602), 54,516 miles
06/28/13: AHr=58.84 CAP=88.81%. Hlth= n/a
10/25/13: AHr=57.87 CAP=87.87%. Hlth=85.33%
03/10/14: AHr=56.05 CAP=81.61%. Hlth=81.75% (lost 12th bar sometime in Mar, 2014)
05/18/14: AHr=55.10 CAP=83.16%. Hlth=79.88%
08/19/14: AHr=52.95 CAP=79.91%. Hlth=63.69% (SOC is 90.1%, 214 GIDs 76.2%)
10/14/14: AHr=51.97 CAP=78.45%. Hlth=61.36%
12/04/14: AHr=51.57 CAP=77.83%. Hlth=60.37% (lost 11th bar on 12/03/14)
02/16/15: AHr=50.64 CAP=76.44%. Hlth=58.21%
07/25/15: AHr=49.21 CAP=74.28%. Hlth=54.85%
10/26/15: AHr=47.61 CAP=71.85%. Hlth=51.98%, GIDS=202 (lost the 10th bar sometime in Oct/Nov 2015)
03/24/16: AHr=46.20 CAP=69.73%. Hlth=49.68%, GIDS=196
04/12/16: AHr=46.00 CAP=69.43%. Hlth=49.34%, GIDS=196
05/11/16: AHr=45.54 CAP=68.73%. Hlth=48.59%, GIDS=181
10/6/16: AHr=43.45 CAP=65.58%. Hlth=45.17%, GIDS=182

Date of Manufacture: 05/11, took delivery 1st week of July, 2011.
 
Updated 10/12/2016: 4th Bar lost 10/11/2016

2011 Silver Leaf (all updates applied, QC=58, L1/L2=1602), 54,516 miles
06/28/13: AHr=58.84 CAP=88.81%. Hlth= n/a
10/25/13: AHr=57.87 CAP=87.87%. Hlth=85.33%
03/10/14: AHr=56.05 CAP=81.61%. Hlth=81.75% (lost 12th bar sometime in Mar, 2014)
05/18/14: AHr=55.10 CAP=83.16%. Hlth=79.88%
08/19/14: AHr=52.95 CAP=79.91%. Hlth=63.69% (SOC is 90.1%, 214 GIDs 76.2%)
10/14/14: AHr=51.97 CAP=78.45%. Hlth=61.36%
12/04/14: AHr=51.57 CAP=77.83%. Hlth=60.37% (lost 11th bar on 12/03/14)
02/16/15: AHr=50.64 CAP=76.44%. Hlth=58.21%
07/25/15: AHr=49.21 CAP=74.28%. Hlth=54.85%
10/26/15: AHr=47.61 CAP=71.85%. Hlth=51.98%, GIDS=202 (lost the 10th bar sometime in Oct/Nov 2015)
03/24/16: AHr=46.20 CAP=69.73%. Hlth=49.68%, GIDS=196
04/12/16: AHr=46.00 CAP=69.43%. Hlth=49.34%, GIDS=196
05/11/16: AHr=45.54 CAP=68.73%. Hlth=48.59%, GIDS=181
10/6/16: AHr=43.45 CAP=65.58%. Hlth=45.17%, GIDS=182
10/12/16: AHr=43.43 CAP=65.54%. Hlth=45.13%, GIDS=185 (lost the 9th bar 10/11/2016 ) <--- 4th Bar lost yesterday. Missed warranty period by 3.5 months.

Date of Manufacture: 05/11, took delivery 1st week of July, 2011.



Data for our Blue Leaf: Updated 10/12/2016. As of today, our Blue Leaf have not lost the 4th bar just yet.

2011 Blue Leaf (all updates applied, QC=31, L1/L2=2115), 57,492 miles
09/23/13: AHr=57.03 CAP=86.07%. Hlth=83.67%
05/11/14: AHr=55.10 CAP=79.89%. Hlth=85.33% (lost 12th bar sometime in Mar, 2014)
10/13/14: AHr=51.61 CAP=77.89%. Hlth=60.45% (lost 11th bar on 10/13/14)
02/16/15: AHr=50.70 CAP=76.60%. Hlth=58.47%
07/25/15: AHr=49.17 CAP=74.22%. Hlth=54.76%
10/26/15: AHr=47.55 CAP=71.76%. Hlth=51.88%, GIDS=191 (lost 10th bar on 10/26/15)
03/28/16: AHr=45.97 CAP=69.38%. Hlth=49.29%, GIDS=197
04/12/16: AHr=45.96 CAP=69.37%. Hlth=49.28%, GIDS=195
05/03/16: AHr=45.76 CAP=69.06%. Hlth=48.94%, GIDS=180
10/8/16: AHr=43.54 CAP=65.71%. Hlth=45.31%, GIDS=181
10/12/16: AHr=43.49 CAP=65.63%. Hlth=45.22%, GIDS=188

Date of Manufacture: 05/11, took delivery 1st week of July, 2011.
 
Back
Top