Hyundai Ioniq BEV, hybrid, and PHEV.

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CAR likes the BEV version best, and so do I (despite it having the wrong DC port, in the wrong location):

http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-reviews/hyundai/hyundai-ioniq-2016-hybrid-and-electric-review/

evnow said:
edatoakrun said:
This review of the GB BEV model compares it favorably overall with gen 1 LEAF:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/hyundai/ioniq/96266/hyundai-ioniq-ev-electric-car-review

Would creating a brand new product that beats your competitor's 5 year old model a good strategy exp. with the next gen coming out in a year or so ?

We'll find out - but won't be surprised if this is just a compliance car (just sold a little more widely like FFE than Fit EV).
Hyundai has made a habit letting the Japanese lead, then following with superior cars, at lower prices.

I believe the Ioniq was primarily intended as, and is a real threat to Toyota's market dominance, both as a hybrid and PHEV.

A few years ago, Hyundai management probably noticed that Americans seem to want their BEVs to look like ICEVs (as Tesla has capitalized on) so they figured why not just utilize the Ioniq as a BEV?

As long as gas prices stay low in the USA, no manufacturer will be making much money on BEV sales here, whether sold in large numbers or not, and this is why the LEAF is being produced and sold here at a reduced fraction of its world sales, in not much more than compliance numbers.

I am hopeful that Nissan will make major improvement whenever it sells the gen 2 LEAF, or (if CARB allows it to) a BEVx that might work even better for me.

Meanwhile, within a few months, the Ioniq looks to be available at lower price, longer range than a ~30 kWh LEAF.

And its ~300 Lb. lower weight suggests it will probably have efficiency and fun-to-drive advantages over the LEAF in my mountain driving.

So I'm still interested.
 
There are some new videos worth watching, especially the two below:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eAFMQ4n820

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-MB1Nph5Y5s

An unsubstantiated rumor is that the Ioniq has ~31 kWh total capacity, and may be essentially one-half of the ~62 kWh (?) pack LG supplies to GM for the Bolt.

But the Ioniq's projected 125 MPGe rating (highest of all BEVs sold in the USA) suggests the range may be significantly more than one-half that of the Bolt, especially at higher speeds or in Mountain driving, where both the Ioniq's lower drag and ~500 lbs lower weight will come into play.

I expect the total cost of ownership of the Ioniq to initially be ~$100 to $150 per month lower than for the Bolt.

Even more important, I expect the Ioniq to be much more fun to drive on my mountain roads than the Bolt.

If it actually has ~28 kWh available, I estimate the Ioniq's effective range when new (when leaving ~10 freeway miles, or ~20 low-speed miles in reserve, ~ at the VLBW on my LEAF today) will be ~2.2 times that of my LEAF, which I estimate is now down to ~17.5 kWh actual available capacity, from "100%" charge to turtle.

That's close to all the range I want for occasional longer trips, and all I want to pay for and drag around with me on every other trip, when I don't need nearly that much.

So, unless Nissan releases some news on the Gen Two LEAF pretty soon...
 
Seems a bit late to the party. Range is only half the next generation BEVs and power is only 88 KW (117 HP), which makes it slower than the current Leaf. I expect Nissan to announce the next gen Leaf soon and it should be better in every way.
 
LKK said:
Seems a bit late to the party. Range is only half the next generation BEVs and power is only 88 KW (117 HP), which makes it slower than the current Leaf. I expect Nissan to announce the next gen Leaf soon and it should be better in every way.

Agreed. I'm not sure how they're going to compete with the Ioniq BEV unless it's very attractively priced. I guess they could move a few at $29,995 advertised as $19,995 post-rebates in California.
 
="LKK"...Range is only half the next generation BEVs...
If by "next generation" you mean the Bolt, which will be on the US market only a few months later than the Ioniq, that is probably incorrect.

If you assume the Ioniq has ~half the total available capacity of the Bolt, it will still have more than half the total effective range, due to higher efficiency.

This will be particularly noticeable at high speeds and on trips with large ascents, due to the Bolts high weight and drag.

On a cold day at freeway speeds for example, the Ioniq might have close to 20% greater efficiency in m/kWh than the Bolt.

Meaning, that if you wanted to do something as foolish as take a very long freeway trip in either BEV using todays available DC infrastructure, generally limited to under 50 kW (and with many CCS DCs only ~ half that fast) you might actually be able to complete your trip almost as quickly, and perhaps even more rapidly, in an Ioniq than you could in a Bolt.

Due to the multiple rapid charge/discharge cycles required, the two BEVs differing thermal management systems might actually become the determining factor in this contest.

You'd definitely save some money driving the Ioniq on this trip (and every other) which many BEV drivers might find significant, particularly in consideration of how much many public DC sites charge per kWh.

="mtndrew1"...I'm not sure how they're going to compete with the Ioniq BEV unless it's very attractively priced...
Attractive pricing is how every affordable BEV/PHEV is currently being sold or leased, though The LEAF, one of the best selling, is still offered at close to the most expensive leases:

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/2016/07/current-lease-offers-for-selected-evs.html

I'm waiting for the Gen Two LEAF myself, but if it turns out to be something similar to either the Bolt or the Tesla 3, I doubt I'll be interested.
 
An anectdotal report on Range coming from Korea:

1750km Test Drive in Ioniq Electric

I recently got to spend a week test driving the Ioniq Electric around South Korea. Here's some photos...

220km is the distance you can drive on the motorway at 110 km/h...
http://myioniq.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=73

~137 miles at ~68 mph sounds a might bit optimistic to me...

That would require ~4.9 m/kWh efficiency, even assuming ~28 kWh available capacity.

An impressive efficiency, but also one unlikely to hold up under scrutiny, IMO.

I think you'd be more likely to only get close to that ~4.9 m/kwh on a warm day at the California unofficial 55mph truck and trailer speed limit, ~63 mph.

Of course, when you are in the right lane on a freeway, you generally also pick up a variable fraction of a mile per kWh due to the drafting effects from other vehicles, so you probably will be able to count on well over two hours of right-lane-driving time between (full capacity) recharges in an Ioniq BEV under most conditions, which is close to as long as I usually like to drive without a break, anyway.
 
Can anyone confirm that the BEV version might resolve one of Leaf's design issues - however, will it create others?

"One interesting technical aspect of the Ioniq range: the cars have no 12-volt battery. Instead, the engine is started and accessories are run by one module of the high-voltage pack."
 
That would be a terrible idea, my 1981 comutacar did that with lead and the 2 batteries running the ignition always wore out faster
 
Owner manual available here:

https://carmanuals2.com/get/hyundai-ioniq-electric-2017-owner-s-manual-101276

Lot's of the features look similar to LEAF.

Like late-model LEAFs, it also doesn't appear to have any charge setting below "100%", which is a real problem if you start most of your trips with a large descent.

Marktm said:
Can anyone confirm that the BEV version might resolve one of Leaf's design issues - however, will it create others?

"One interesting technical aspect of the Ioniq range: the cars have no 12-volt battery. Instead, the engine is started and accessories are run by one module of the high-voltage pack."
As per manual, it has a 12 V battery.
 
Hi
I am the author of the1750km Test Drive in IONIQ Electric article.

The topics covered on this are -
1/ Overview
2/ Charging
3/ Servicing
4/ Range and Efficiency
5/ Interior
6/ Safety features
7/ Marketing

Am currently trying to write a conclusion. I want to write a positive ending to this, but am struggling to find good reasons why anyone would actually buy this car. It is a great car in so many respects but only has half the battery capacity of what seems to be its main competitor.

edatoakrun: I appreciate your comments and If I may I would like to use them in my conclusion. "Even more important, I expect the IONIQ to be much more fun to drive on my mountain roads than the Bolt". And "That's close to all the range I want for occasional longer trips, and all I want to pay for and drag around with me on every other trip, when I don't need nearly that much."

I don't yet know if has been very attractively priced in the U.S. Here in Korea, not really. It is struggling to sell here, even though there is no competition with the bigger battery packed cars yet.

----------------------------------------

Even though the Ioniq EV and the Chevy Bolt both have LG Chem battery packs the pack structure and the actual cells seem to be quite different. (Note the word seem - it is very hard to get any accurate info about the battery pack from Hyundai)

The IONIQ EV has a battery pack by LG Chem.
It has 192 polymer pouch type cells laid out in a series string of 96 sets of 2 parallel cells.
The IONIQ EV battery pack is 31 kWh and weighs 271.8kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 114 Wh/kg

The Chevy Bolt also has a battery pack by LG Chem.
It has 288 polymer pouch type cells laid out in a series string of 96 sets of 3 parallel cells.
The 2017 Bolt battery pack is 60 kWh and weighs 435kg -> Gravimetric Energy Density = 138 Wh/kg

see - Comparing the Soul EV battery with the Ioniq EV
 
Via IEVS, just for edatoakrun, as he's wondering about how fun to drive the Ionic might be compared to a LEAF on his typical roads:
Hyundai IONIQ Electric First Drive Review
http://insideevs.com/hyundai-ioniq-electric-first-drive-review/

. . . According to Autocar, excitement isn’t the strong suit of the IONIQ Electric, but it’s still a decent car with relatively quick acceleration, excellent for city use with its smooth power delivery.

The quiet electric motor (as found in all other BEVs) does however reveal some background noise penetrating into the cabin –road roar and wind noise at speed, so perhaps not enough attention was given to insulating the plug-in version over the straight hybrid by Hyundai.

The brakes also don’t appeal to Autocar, as responsiveness seems to be an issue.

“Initial response is very sharp, but it feels like you need to push the pedal a long way further to get any meaningful stopping power”

The driving experience suggests that IONIQ Electric is positioned for normal driving, but without a sporty feel:

“Hyundai suggests that the Ioniq Electric should offer decent driving dynamics. The truth is that while it isn’t bad, it’s not going to set pulses racing. The steering has reasonable weight to it, but it’s vague around the straight-ahead and never communicates what the front wheels are doing.

There’s not a great deal of body roll, but it doesn’t take much to get the nose of the Ionic running wide; blame the low-resistance tyres for that. Pitch the car into a corner harder and you can tell the weight balance of the car is more even than that of a front-engined, front wheel-drive hatch, though.

Even so, this is a car that’s much happier being driven well within its limits. . . .”
So, it sounds like an e-Golf with a bigger battery would still be the affordable BEV to beat for driving dynamics.
 
The AutoCar reviewer states "The driving experience suggests that IONIQ Electric is positioned for normal driving, but without a sporty feel:".
I can't argue against this because I never tried to drive the car other than normally. If 'fun to drive' is what you are looking for then it seems there are better choices than the IONIQ Electric. It seems rather dull but perhaps the best review of the IONIQ Electric would be to state that it is 'well positioned for normal driving'.

I will argue against the AutoCar reviewers poor understanding of regen.

You can alter how much the car decelerates when you lift off by using what look like gearshift paddles behind the steering wheel. The Ioniq starts with fairly weak regenerative braking initially, but this can be ramped up to slow the car faster and increase the amount of energy that goes back into the battery pack.

Although this does improve range and allows you to avoid pressing the brake the majority of the time, the regenerative braking is much more sudden than in a Nissan Leaf, for instance. We soon turned it back down again to make smoother progress.

It is regen zero (coasting) that increases range on the freeway; regen three (max regen) is useful when driving slowly down a steep, windy mountain road. (regen 1 is the same as 'D', regen 2 is the same as 'B')

Kia copied the Nissan Leaf when developing the Soul EV. The system of having 'D' and "B' modes is a halfway house for drivers who are new to EVs coming from ICE cars. Am glad Hyundai dropped this concept for a more sensible EV based system.
 
="JejuSoul"Hi

...Am currently trying to write a conclusion. I want to write a positive ending to this, but am struggling to find good reasons why anyone would actually buy this car. It is a great car in so many respects but only has half the battery capacity of what seems to be its main competitor.

edatoakrun: I appreciate your comments and If I may I would like to use them in my conclusion. "Even more important, I expect the IONIQ to be much more fun to drive on my mountain roads than the Bolt". And "That's close to all the range I want for occasional longer trips, and all I want to pay for and drag around with me on every other trip, when I don't need nearly that much."

I don't yet know if has been very attractively priced in the U.S...
US pricing has not been announced, but I do expect the Ioniq to be very attractively priced in terms of total cost of ownership (TCO) due to the myriad of incentives available to both EV buyers and manufactures,

See my previous post copied below, for more on both USA BEV TCO and why larger battery capacity is a mixed blessing, which comes at high costs, both in TCO and in efficiency.

BTW, do you have an accurate number for the curb (unladen) weight of the Korea market Ioniq BEV?

edatoakrun said:
="LKK"...Range is only half the next generation BEVs...
If by "next generation" you mean the Bolt, which will be on the US market only a few months later than the Ioniq, that is probably incorrect.

If you assume the Ioniq has ~half the total available capacity of the Bolt, it will still have more than half the total effective range, due to higher efficiency.

This will be particularly noticeable at high speeds and on trips with large ascents, due to the Bolts high weight and drag.

On a cold day at freeway speeds for example, the Ioniq might have close to 20% greater efficiency in m/kWh than the Bolt.

Meaning, that if you wanted to do something as foolish as take a very long freeway trip in either BEV using todays available DC infrastructure, generally limited to under 50 kW (and with many CCS DCs only ~ half that fast) you might actually be able to complete your trip almost as quickly, and perhaps even more rapidly, in an Ioniq than you could in a Bolt.

Due to the multiple rapid charge/discharge cycles required, the two BEVs differing thermal management systems might actually become the determining factor in this contest.

You'd definitely save some money driving the Ioniq on this trip (and every other) which many BEV drivers might find significant, particularly in consideration of how much many public DC sites charge per kWh.

="mtndrew1"...I'm not sure how they're going to compete with the Ioniq BEV unless it's very attractively priced...
Attractive pricing is how every affordable BEV/PHEV is currently being sold or leased, though The LEAF, one of the best selling, is still offered at close to the most expensive leases:

http://ev-vin.blogspot.com/2016/07/current-lease-offers-for-selected-evs.html

I'm waiting for the Gen Two LEAF myself, but if it turns out to be something similar to either the Bolt or the Tesla 3, I doubt I'll be interested.
 
GRA said:
Via IEVS, just for edatoakrun, as he's wondering about how fun to drive the Ionic might be compared to a LEAF on his typical roads:
Hyundai IONIQ Electric First Drive Review
http://insideevs.com/hyundai-ioniq-electric-first-drive-review/

...it sounds like an e-Golf with a bigger battery would still be the affordable BEV to beat for driving dynamics.
I suggest you read the review by those who actually saw and drove the Ioniq, rather than the regurgitation of the article at the link you posted.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/hyundai/ioniq/first-drives/2016-hyundai-ioniq-electric-review

It's pretty much a generic review comparing the Ioniq BEV to ICEVs.

As compliance BEV ICEV conversions go the Golf is far from the worst, but its poor efficiency due to being overweight and with poor aero design will not be improved by just stuffing a larger battery into it.

I remain disappointed by all current BEV offerings, none of which have improved very much on the 2011 LEAF, and which seemed designed more to satisfy what petroleum addicted drivers perceive they require, than to reach the inherent potential of BEVs.

I am still hoping the LEAF gen 2 will be the first real second-generation BEV, but I have no idea if that will be the case.
 
edatoakrun said:
BTW, do you have an accurate number for the curb (unladen) weight of the Korea market Ioniq BEV?

836359_20160812182011_572_0006.jpg


According to the graphic above - 1445kg for the Ioniq Electric.
Compares to 1520kg for the 24kWh Leaf, 1538kg for the 24kWh e-Golf and 1624kg for the 60kWh Bolt.

Lighter weight clearly improves the efficiency.
 
JejuSoul said:
...According to the graphic above - 1445kg for the Ioniq Electric.
Compares to 1520kg for the 24kWh Leaf, 1538kg for the 24kWh e-Golf and 1624kg for the 60kWh Bolt.

Lighter weight clearly improves the efficiency.

Thanks. That's a bit heavier than I was hoping for when first announced. From the first page of this thread:

edatoakrun said:
...I hope the Ioniq will have ~ the same capacity as the Soul...

I will be even more interested in the weight of the pack, and total vehicle weight.

If Hyundai uses LG cells with ~same density as GM has claimed for the Bolt, and doesn't weigh it down (and inflate the cost) by using an oversized pack, it could have a curb weight of close to 3,000 lbs. (~1360kg)

Meaning it could come close to matching the much smaller i-3 for city/mountain efficiency, and actually be fun to drive.
 
edatoakrun said:
As compliance BEV ICEV conversions go the Golf is far from the worst, but its poor efficiency due to being overweight and with poor aero design will not be improved by just stuffing a larger battery into it.

I don't know what the total drag figures are for each, but I can tell you that I consistently get more miles per kWH in my eGolf than I ever did in my Leaf under the same driving conditions. My eGolf came with the Bridgestone "Ecopia Plus" tires with a manufacturer's tire pressure spec of 40 psi, which is what I also used on the Leaf. So the overall aerodynamics on the eGolf has to be better; I can't explain the superior "electron economy" any other way. It's not all that much different in city driving, but at freeway speeds you can really see the difference, often 1 kWH or better under similar conditions. I can easily take the freeway to destinations that would have required careful local street driving in the Leaf, even when it was new.

As far as "overweight" the heaviest eGolf at 3419 lbs is only 28 lbs heavier than the heaviest Leaf. (Both figures derived from a quick Google search for 2016 models.) While the heaviest Leaf is likely an SL with the 30 kWH battery, a 2012 Leaf with a 24 kWH battery could weigh as much as 3401 lbs.
 
edatoakrun said:
GRA said:
Via IEVS, just for edatoakrun, as he's wondering about how fun to drive the Ionic might be compared to a LEAF on his typical roads:
Hyundai IONIQ Electric First Drive Review
http://insideevs.com/hyundai-ioniq-electric-first-drive-review/

...it sounds like an e-Golf with a bigger battery would still be the affordable BEV to beat for driving dynamics.
I suggest you read the review by those who actually saw and drove the Ioniq, rather than the regurgitation of the article at the link you posted. <snip>
I did before posting the other version, but I think they covered the main points adequately. It's not a car you drive for the excitement of carving twisty roads, any more than a Prius is. OTOH, the reviews I've read of the e-Golf all suggest that it's retained most of driving dynamics of its ICE siblings, which is to say it's far more of a driver's car than the typical Asian 'just get me reliably and economically from A to B' sedan/hatch is. Obviously there are exceptions to that, Mazda and some Subarus for example, Honda less than formerly.
 
UK Deliveries of the hybrid and BEV begin in ~2 weeks.

Site is up, with comprehensive info.

The All-New
Hyundai IONIQ Line-Up

Hybrid – Plug-in – Electric

World’s first vehicle platform with three electrified powertrains, making low- to zero-emission mobility accessible to everyone
http://www.hyundaimedia-ioniq.co.uk/en/
 
For edatoakrun - this review does seem to suggest that The Ioniq EV is fun to drive in the mountains.

...
As with many EVs, the acceleration times don't sound particularly quick, but it is the 'in-gear' acceleration that is most impressive. Shorter bursts like pulling away from the lights, nipping out of junctions, or accelerating from 30-50mph are completed extremely quickly, and the Ioniq Electric doesn't struggle at all in this regard. The Hyundai's electric motor has more than enough pulling power to get up steep hills or overtake on a country road. It's range also doesn't plummet as some of its rivals do when sitting at motorway speeds, making this a reasonable car to drive long distances in.
...
The steering doesn't provide much feedback, but it is accurate and responsive, with the driver only needing to take one bite at threading a line through a bend. This adds up to a car that you can have some fun with - for example when driving around some excellent driving roads on the North Wales test route - but one that is more comfortable around town.

from Hyundai Ioniq Electric review
 
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