pre-release testers wanted - range-extending technology for Leaf

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Rauv said:
So, does this device work or is it snake oil?

It seems to work as advertised here. It certainly smooths out the bumps, and seems to increase efficiency. This isn't magically going to double your range, but could add maybe 10%. Note that for a nominal 84-mile EV like the 24kWh Leaf, that's 8.4 miles of additional range. So take that for what it's worth.
 
I had to turn on the heat this weekend, and the energy use drowned out the increase economy I had been seeing. Unfortunately, with the coming weather, I will be using heat more and more. I'm not going to be able to provide meaningful numbers comparing the modes to one another, but I will certainly continue to use the device and provide my driving impressions.
 
kingofthehuns said:
- You are right, in its most aggressive mode, the timing effects (it is not a traditional lag filter, rather an optimized dynamic approximation curve - ODAC) can be felt. We have addressed that with a 2 stage ODAC which kicks in based on input evaluations. It sounds like the 2nd stage did not kick in in your case. I went back, replayed the possible scenario you are likely to have experienced in our lab and adjusted the parameter evaluator. The 2nd stage blending function should activate more responsively now, although it may come at the expense of energy efficiency. It is not an easy task to strike the right balance between performance and efficiency, and without going into details, our system constantly analyzes the I/O pmeters and makes small modifications (one may say it tries to learn).
[/list]

3. @RockyNV; "Mode 5 issues"


  • - Mode 5 was designed to approximate "ECO" responsiveness while driven in "D". Just for the record, I also drive a Leaf, since 2011. We did a fair amount of acceleration (timing and g-force) measurements, but based on your feedback, we must have missed something. I think it may have something to do with the 2nd stage ODAC activation and the associated parameters, I will look into it.

All the above SW modifications will be in the next firmware update. I will discuss the details with Marc.

Thank you,

-A

I can't speak for everyone but when I want instant torque from an EV its generally below 20 mph and I'm giving it more than 1/3 throttle and usually more like half to full throttle. Maybe think of it like three use cases

1. I want to get up to speed slowly but right away with the option to speed up immediately if I misjudged an opening. (think 33%-50% power)
2. I want to get up to speed quickly, as little delay as possible but I don't want to get to high speed so I'm not flooring it. (think %55-75% power until I clear then letting off the pedal to speed up slower/maintain speed/slow down again)
3. I want to get up to speed quickly and keep speeding up, (think 80-100% power like a very short highway onramp)

I want low delay from starting speed zero but once I'm up to 20 mph I'm willing to mash the pedal down further if the leaf isn't responding as quick as I'd like.

I drive in Drive and ECO modes and often don't know which I'm in so I essentially am creating the delay in some cases by putting pedal pressure for Drive when I'm in ECO. I'm pretty used to the response I expect for each and adjust on the fly without issue most of the time.

I'd hate to think if I got this device installed that it might be any worse than I'm already dealing with in low speed, high acceleration use case but I'd be interested in using it for the commute once I get away from the crowded city streets where I have to dash about and have hit something closer to a steady speed for a bit.
 
Hi Everyone,

If you're curious, based on earlier feedback in the thread, we researched the use of an audio device instead of an LED to signal diagnostic and mode data. The suggestion was that audio feedback would eliminate the need to poke one's head under the dash. I like this idea ( and kudos to Oakleaf for suggesting it ) because it could improve the customer experience and simplify manufacturing--we could have a single version of our PCB instead of two versions featuring either a left- or right-side mounted LED.

In finding a suitable audio component, the initial challenge was a tiny power budget, so we focused on piezo buzzers. Another challenge was the physical dimensions: we have very little open real estate. The good news is that although it was physically larger than the MCU/CPU that powers our system, we did find a piezo buzzer that fits our PCB.

You can see a picture of the piezo hand soldered directly on top of the MCU in this picture below. Our PCB is purple and the piezo is the large, slightly off kilter component in the center. Also in the picture are a few other piezo buzzers with which we also experimented.
open


The bad news is that none of the piezos generated enough dB to be useful in the broad array of vehicles and environments that we could reasonably expect them to be installed and used. This is an unintended byproduct of our housing: the floors and walls are 3MM thick in order to provide robustness and crush resistance. But this means that the piezo's buzzing is barely audible with even a modest amount of background noise--we had an office window open during testing and could barely hear the piezo.

So, for now, we have to stick with the light emitting diode. However, we replaced it with a 30% brighter part based on the thread feedback. (FYI, I sometimes use my iPhone with the camera on "selfie" mode to show me what's going on at the pedal if I want to skip climbing under the dash.)

I think that the ultimate solution is a wireless implementation that communicates with a mobile app. The challenge with that, again, is power budget. We've done some experimentation and as soon as the technology supports it, we will roll out a solution--but my guess is that will be several years from now, and probably many of you will have already purchased your next Leaf.

Thanks to everyone for the feedback to date. Best,

Marc
 
Hi Everyone,

We developed new software based on early feedback from the group. The software focuses mainly on driving experience but also includes some additional logic for further acceleration optimization.

Please PM me if you'd like us to update your Smartpedal unit. Please also PM a summary of your driving experience, results to date, and any additional thoughts or recommendations that you would like to share.

Best,
Marc
 
Hi Everyone,

New release of the software ready and shipping tomorrow. The software will be on new Smartpedal units for swapping out with the original. Please return the original using the pre-paid shipping label.

About the software: the device is now set up for three modes, not five. The three modes should give both better drivability and better mileage performance relative to the previous unit you received.

The default mode is 2.

Modes 1, 2 and 3 can all be used on D mode. For most drivers, Mode 2 in D will likely give the best combination of mileage and performance--essentially E-level mileage while largely preserving the fun of D mode.

For E drivers, we recommend switching to mode 1. After trying mode 1 for 300-400 miles, you can try mode 2. We do _not_ recommend mode 3 for E driving as it is likely to give negative results.

Once you've had a chance to drive for a bit, I'd love to hear what you think of the driving experience and your mileage results.

Best,
Marc
 
Hi Everyone,

Latest report from GetOffYourGas:

Here are my stats since changing to mode 3 on 5/26/17. Temps have been warmer, from 45-90, average around 70. Driving was the same split of highway/local with the same speeds. I saw a roughly 9% improvement overall.
 
Hi Everyone,

Just a quick note: the final release of the software is ready. We'll build and ship updated devices tomorrow. Look for an email notice with tracking info. As before, we will use the usps priority service, so you should receive within 2-days of shipment.

Marc
 
PedalLogic said:
Hi Everyone,

Latest report from GetOffYourGas:

Here are my stats since changing to mode 3 on 5/26/17. Temps have been warmer, from 45-90, average around 70. Driving was the same split of highway/local with the same speeds. I saw a roughly 9% improvement overall.

Sorry I didn't post my results sooner. I wanted to follow my testing with a few hundred miles of driving without the PedalLogic unit so I could control my usage to be as similar as possible.

The unit has three modes, each progressively more aggressive. Here are my numbers after 800+ miles in each mode:

baseline (no PedalLogic) - 3.3 miles / kWh
Mode 1 - 3.5 miles/kWh
Mode 2 - 3.4 miles/kWh
Mode 3 - 3.7 miles/kWh

All modes performed better than stock. Mode 3 saw about a 12% improvement from stock (the quote above was relative to Mode 2, which was the least efficient mode, but still better than stock). My driving was as consistent as possible through each mode's test. Temperatures were similar and I always had the climate running with slight A/C (never heat). The efficiency numbers settled into a very consistent value, which gave me a high confidence in them.

I also found that the unit made it easier to drive efficiently when desired. It definitely works as advertised, smoothing out the bumps.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
PedalLogic said:
Hi Everyone,

Latest report from GetOffYourGas:

Here are my stats since changing to mode 3 on 5/26/17. Temps have been warmer, from 45-90, average around 70. Driving was the same split of highway/local with the same speeds. I saw a roughly 9% improvement overall.

Sorry I didn't post my results sooner. I wanted to follow my testing with a few hundred miles of driving without the PedalLogic unit so I could control my usage to be as similar as possible.

The unit has three modes, each progressively more aggressive. Here are my numbers after 800+ miles in each mode:

baseline (no PedalLogic) - 3.3 miles / kWh
Mode 1 - 3.5 miles/kWh
Mode 2 - 3.4 miles/kWh
Mode 3 - 3.7 miles/kWh

All modes performed better than stock. Mode 3 saw about a 12% improvement from stock (the quote above was relative to Mode 2, which was the least efficient mode, but still better than stock). My driving was as consistent as possible through each mode's test. Temperatures were similar and I always had the climate running with slight A/C (never heat). The efficiency numbers settled into a very consistent value, which gave me a high confidence in them.

I also found that the unit made it easier to drive efficiently when desired. It definitely works as advertised, smoothing out the bumps.
What is the disadvantage of mode 3? or how does it differ from not using the device?
Any real disadvantage of mode 1? I mean would one even notice the difference between mode 1 or a car without the device?
 
jjeff said:
What is the disadvantage of mode 3? or how does it differ from not using the device?

Mode 3 is very aggressive. It definitely changes the whole feel of the car. You get used to it, but it's a change. The car is not as peppy from a stop (although you can get to full power in an emergency if you punch it). So some may not want to use it because they don't want the car to drive that way.

BUT, it was significantly (and consistently) more efficient.

jjeff said:
Any real disadvantage of mode 1? I mean would one even notice the difference between mode 1 or a car without the device?

There is a slight difference in feel between mode 1 and no device. But it is very minor. You feel it mostly on very rough roads (our winters are harsh and the city of Syracuse is not particularly wealthy, so we have a lot of those around).

It's actually mode 2 that was my least favorite. The car felt less responsive than mode 1 or none, but I actually was less efficient overall. I'm guessing it was tuned for driving conditions very dissimilar to my own. Others' experience may be very different.

Overall, the device allowed me to better control how efficiently I was driving. If I knew I would be pushing the range, it boosted my confidence. If I owned one, I would want to switch between mode 1 and mode 3, depending on my needs for the day. Switching modes on the prototype was inconvenient, but that seems like a very solvable problem.
 
GetOffYourGas said:
The unit has three modes, each progressively more aggressive. Here are my numbers after 800+ miles in each mode:

baseline (no SmartPedal) - 3.3 miles / kWh
Mode 1 - 3.5 miles/kWh
Mode 2 - 3.4 miles/kWh
Mode 3 - 3.7 miles/kWh

All modes performed better than stock. Mode 3 saw about a 12% improvement from stock (the quote above was relative to Mode 2, which was the least efficient mode, but still better than stock). My driving was as consistent as possible through each mode's test. Temperatures were similar and I always had the climate running with slight A/C (never heat). The efficiency numbers settled into a very consistent value, which gave me a high confidence in them. I also found that the unit made it easier to drive efficiently when desired.

It definitely works as advertised, smoothing out the bumps.
Hi GetOffYourGas,

Excellent feedback. Thanks for taking the time both to collect this large amount of data and to post your results on the thread.

It's really useful to us from two perspectives. First, the empirical data measuring performance is really valuable in and of itself. We did plenty of in-house closed-course and open-road testing before getting to this point, including with OEMs, but it's not the same as releasing SmartPedal into the wild and then tracking the results. Seeing the reports of beta testers doing real-world driving is both more valuable and more exciting by comparison.

I also appreciate your take on the feel of the different driving modes. Our goal during development was to preserve (and sometimes improve) the driving experience as much as possible. Based on feedback from you and others, we may increase the number of available driving modes from three to six. Essentially there will be five base driving modes that largely preserve the driving experience and then one extra "super-eco" mode. Like the phrase implies, the "super eco" mode 6 will significantly changes the feel of driving in exchange for maximizing mileage. (FYI, we call this version "5+1" internally.) I can send you one of the 5+1 SmartPedal units along with a return label for the current unit if you'd like—just let me know.

Thank you again for testing!

Marc

P.S. We used to refer to our company and product as Pedal Logic. Taking a cue from Nest Labs and their Nest product we recently changed our company and product names to SmartPedal Labs and SmartPedal.
 
powersurge said:
so what is this product going to retail at???

The price is $299 with a 1-year limited warranty. You can extend the warranty to three years for an extra $29, which is $14.50 a year. As inexpensive as that is compared to most warranty extensions, it's probably not a good use of your funds because of the high internal build quality. (We invested five years in R&D before first offering SmartPedal for sale in late 2016.)

We haven't made a decision whether to sell to consumers, or to focus on commercial and governmental fleets. The challenge for us is on the selling side: it's a lot of effort to demonstrate the effectiveness and overcome all the usual pre-sales questions and concerns, so it's much better for us if the reward at the end is a sale of hundreds or thousands of units instead of a single SmartPedal.

That said, if members following this thread want to order, I can post a 45%-off promo code for a few days.

powersurge said:
This sounds like another "box" like from that guy in Europe....

Not sure who you mean, but I do hear a cynical tone, which is understandable given all the bologna in the realm of aftermarket parts, and better mileage in particular. I had hoped to mitigate some of that cynicism by providing advance units to a few volunteers from this group and allowing the reported results to speak for themselves.

In any case, if you want to learn more about how our technology works, the first two pages of this thread include a lot of detail, plus you can visit our home page (http://www.smartpedal.com), although the conversation there is more marketing oriented.

If you really want to dive into the details, the US Patent and Trademark Office issued two patents for our technology: https://www.google.com/patents/US9387861 and https://www.google.com/patents/US9481375?dq=9,481,375+B2&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjBur-xsbTWAhXohFQKHUiPB8IQ6AEIJjAA.

They print out to about 1" thick of paper so they're best for online viewing.

Marc
 
PedalLogic said:
powersurge said:
so what is this product going to retail at???
That said, if members following this thread want to order, I can post a 45%-off promo code for a few days.
Please do so, particularly if this would be for the "5+1" version. This could be the only aftermarket upgrade we provide for our MY2011 LEAF. We would purchase it not so much for the money savings since that only comes to about $30/year, but rather for the extra range that we might achieve by using the "Super Eco" mode in the hopes of forestalling the future need for a battery replacement.
 
RegGuheert said:
Please do so, particularly if this would be for the "5+1" version.
Will do. The code is MYLEAF. It's active now through next Friday (Sept 29). We'll make sure to ship the 5+1.

RegGuheert said:
This could be the only aftermarket upgrade we provide for our MY2011 LEAF.
That's great to read.

RegGuheert said:
We would purchase it not so much for the money savings since that only comes to about $30/year, but rather for the extra range that we might achieve by using the "Super Eco" mode in the hopes of forestalling the future need for a battery replacement.
You hit the nail on the head on an aspect of our internal marketing conversation of consumer vs. fleet. In addition to increased range, our technology typically generates about a 12-24 month payback on the investment for fleet vehicles, almost all of which are combustion powered. In consumer EVs, the payback period increases to 4-5 years because of the underlying efficiency of EVs and the low cost of electricity. So with EVs, our value proposition is mostly about range.

On the other hand, you'll notice when SmartPedal is installed that the instantaneous demand spikes on the battery pack diminish significantly. These are the spikes that typically occur one or more times a second during normal driving as the vehicle moves up/down while travel over the roadway. We have no data to back this up yet, but we think that mitigating these spikes helps the performance and longevity of the battery pack.
 
PedalLogic said:
RegGuheert said:
Please do so, particularly if this would be for the "5+1" version.
Will do. The code is MYLEAF. It's active now through next Friday (Sept 29). We'll make sure to ship the 5+1.
Thanks! Order placed.

For others like me who do not know where to go to place an order, the website is SmartPedal.com.
PedalLogic said:
On the other hand, you'll notice when SmartPedal is installed that the instantaneous demand spikes on the battery pack diminish significantly. These are the spikes that typically occur one or more times a second during normal driving as the vehicle moves up/down while travel over the roadway. We have no data to back this up yet, but we think that mitigating these spikes helps the performance and longevity of the battery pack.
That explanation sealed the deal for me. Range is most limited in wintertime and this appears to be dominated by the increase in resistance of the battery pack as it has degraded. This results in an almost complete loss of regen when crossing the nearby mountain, which likely will not be helped by this device, but I'm hopeful some energy will be saved in other portions of my wife's commute to help give her margin to successfully make it home from her 50-mile commute for a few more years.

BTW, I considered also purchasing one of these for our 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, but it appears that you only offer them for MY2012 and later. Is this because your technology is only compatible with more recent electronic pedals?
 
RegGuheert said:
Thanks! Order placed.
Thank you! We'll ship tomorrow. Look for tracking info via email.

RegGuheert said:
For others like me who do not know where to go to place an order, the website is SmartPedal.com.
I am sometimes embarrassed at how poorly we market ourselves. :roll:

RegGuheert said:
BTW, I considered also purchasing one of these for our 2003 Honda Civic Hybrid, but it appears that you only offer them for MY2012 and later. Is this because your technology is only compatible with more recent electronic pedals?
Yes, exactly.
 
PedalLogic said:
RegGuheert said:
Thanks! Order placed.
Thank you! We'll ship tomorrow. Look for tracking info via email.
Awesome!

One more question for you: I looked at the two videos on installation and those seem pretty clear. (But I've worked on cars enough to know that doesn't mean it will be easy!) Thanks for those. Unfortunately, when I tried to view the video linked on page four of this thread regarding configuration and calibration, I got a message saying that video does not exist. Have those instructions changed? Are they provided with the product?

I also have a question for anyone about the LEAF pedal: Mine has been making a "spring-type noise" for the past couple of years and I'm wondering if there is something I can do to quiet that thing while I am down there fiddling with it. Anyone have ideas how to quiet the spring in the LEAF pedal?
PedalLogic said:
RegGuheert said:
For others like me who do not know where to go to place an order, the website is SmartPedal.com.
I am sometimes embarrassed at how poorly we market ourselves. :roll:
Now I see you have the link to your website higher up on this page. :oops:
 
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