30kwh battery, warranty and capacity bar questions I cannot find elsewhere....

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DaveinOlyWA said:
ElectricEddy said:
I am using the same charging pattern I used on my '13
When cold, 83% may sit for 48 hours, 100% once a week to balance.
When temps rise, 83% max charge , 100% every 2 weeks to balance.
I do not let the car sit for more than an hour max after full charge then reduce to at least 83%.

The 13 was at 19.4 Kwh when I traded it in on Oct 31, the 16 I now drive is holding at 27.4 Kwh.

I use the defroster and heat to reduce energy if needed to that 83% level on a short spin after charging to 100%.

Once I re-apply the window visors and the temp increases that short spin might become a little longer.

Yes I agree its nice to have good range again although I do tend to do the speed limit + 2Kms

you are degrading your pack for no reason. there is no need to charge to 100% once a week. unless you plan to drive at least 40-50 miles, you shouldn't be doing it.
I do drive 40-50 miles just not on a regular basis and charge to %100 to balance the pack
 
ElectricEddy said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
ElectricEddy said:
I am using the same charging pattern I used on my '13
When cold, 83% may sit for 48 hours, 100% once a week to balance.
When temps rise, 83% max charge , 100% every 2 weeks to balance.
I do not let the car sit for more than an hour max after full charge then reduce to at least 83%.

The 13 was at 19.4 Kwh when I traded it in on Oct 31, the 16 I now drive is holding at 27.4 Kwh.

I use the defroster and heat to reduce energy if needed to that 83% level on a short spin after charging to 100%.

Once I re-apply the window visors and the temp increases that short spin might become a little longer.

Yes I agree its nice to have good range again although I do tend to do the speed limit + 2Kms

you are degrading your pack for no reason. there is no need to charge to 100% once a week. unless you plan to drive at least 40-50 miles, you shouldn't be doing it.
I do drive 40-50 miles just not on a regular basis and charge to %100 to balance the pack

well then I strongly suggest you only charge to full just before your 50 mile trips then
 
I have a 2016 S30. I've ordered an OBDII dongle and already have leaf-spy installed. Short of actually killing the battery, is there any info that I can provide to help answer the OP's question? I'm curious about that detail as well.
 
I think I can tell you what not to do to keep your 30kwh battery healthy.

I bought a 2016 SL last 12/2016 that was built in 11/2015. Almost as soon as I drove it home I was wondering about battery capacity. A week later I got leaf spy and it showed AHr=68.93, SOH=86% Hx=83.96% 2QCs & 27 L1/L2

I know it sat on a lot in Texas for a year and I bet they charged it to 100% after every test drive.

As of today it has recovered a little AHr=71.21 SOH=89% Hx=86.18%. The best I have seen on a full charge is 25.7kWh.

I did not know at the time, but I highly suggest on even a new Leaf to take LeafSpy with you to the dealer and check the battery before you sign. Neither NissanUSA or Town North in Austin have done anything to make it right.
 
jbuntz said:
I think I can tell you what not to do to keep your 30kwh battery healthy.

I bought a 2016 SL last 12/2016 that was built in 11/2015. Almost as soon as I drove it home I was wondering about battery capacity. A week later I got leaf spy and it showed AHr=68.93, SOH=86% Hx=83.96% 2QCs & 27 L1/L2

I know it sat on a lot in Texas for a year and I bet they charged it to 100% after every test drive.

As of today it has recovered a little AHr=71.21 SOH=89% Hx=86.18%. The best I have seen on a full charge is 25.7kWh.
That sucks but I wouldn't bother w/the Leaf Spy kWh values. I bet what you're looking at is just based off of # of gids * (whatever the Wh/gids setting is set to). The default for that is 77.5, IIRC.

I posted about this at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=476092#p476092.
 
cwerdna said:
jbuntz said:
I think I can tell you what not to do to keep your 30kwh battery healthy.

I bought a 2016 SL last 12/2016 that was built in 11/2015. Almost as soon as I drove it home I was wondering about battery capacity. A week later I got leaf spy and it showed AHr=68.93, SOH=86% Hx=83.96% 2QCs & 27 L1/L2

I know it sat on a lot in Texas for a year and I bet they charged it to 100% after every test drive.

As of today it has recovered a little AHr=71.21 SOH=89% Hx=86.18%. The best I have seen on a full charge is 25.7kWh.
That sucks but I wouldn't bother w/the Leaf Spy kWh values. I bet what you're looking at is just based off of # of gids * (whatever the Wh/gids setting is set to). The default for that is 77.5, IIRC.

I posted about this at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=476092#p476092.

so what should it be? 75?
 
The other day I charged from turtle to 100% and it took 31kWh as reported on my cheap ammeter. I am thinking that it is not more than 85% efficient from the wall to the battery so that would be 26.35kWh. Not too far off from LeafSpy reporting 25.7kWh @ 80W/GID
 
jbuntz said:
The other day I charged from turtle to 100% and it took 31kWh as reported on my cheap ammeter. I am thinking that it is not more than 85% efficient from the wall to the battery so that would be 26.35kWh. Not too far off from LeafSpy reporting 25.7kWh @ 80W/GID

sounds like 120
 
My electrical engineer friend tells me you also have to consider the "Power Factor" of the Charger, since my cheap meter only shows the apparent draw and not the actual usage.
 
jbuntz said:
My electrical engineer friend tells me you also have to consider the "Power Factor" of the Charger, since my cheap meter only shows the apparent draw and not the actual usage.

residential power is for all practical purposes 1 to 1. what is your GID setting on LEAF Spy? now what it "should" be is apparently debatable but mine is set to 77.5 watthours and I have 28.1 kwh available. but again, putting it in the battery is only part of the story. you also generate heat when you take it out along with a base load
 
My GID setting is at 80. Also since my ammeter is only measuring one lead then it doesn't measure the power returning on the other leg (Or something like that. I am not an EE :))
 
80 is the value listed in the 2011 service manual, but I have not checked the later manuals. The LEAF onboard chargers operate at essentially 1.0 power factor. I have checked both 3.3 kW in 2011 and 6 kW in 2015 on 120, 208, and 240 volts nominal and was surprised how close they run to unity PF. L2 charging efficiency using the same 30-ampere EVSE is noticeably higher with the 6 kW onboard charger in the 2015 compared to the 3.3 kW unit in the 2011 due to reduced charging time (reduced overhead losses).

Gerry
 
GerryAZ said:
80 is the value listed in the 2011 service manual, but I have not checked the later manuals. The LEAF onboard chargers operate at essentially 1.0 power factor. I have checked both 3.3 kW in 2011 and 6 kW in 2015 on 120, 208, and 240 volts nominal and was surprised how close they run to unity PF. L2 charging efficiency using the same 30-ampere EVSE is noticeably higher with the 6 kW onboard charger in the 2015 compared to the 3.3 kW unit in the 2011 due to reduced charging time (reduced overhead losses).

Gerry

Nissan acknowledging the GID is news to me... Either way, it does not change the fact that LEAF Spy shows 29.0 kwh available with GID=80 but only 28.1 when GID=77.5
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
GerryAZ said:
80 is the value listed in the 2011 service manual, but I have not checked the later manuals. The LEAF onboard chargers operate at essentially 1.0 power factor. I have checked both 3.3 kW in 2011 and 6 kW in 2015 on 120, 208, and 240 volts nominal and was surprised how close they run to unity PF. L2 charging efficiency using the same 30-ampere EVSE is noticeably higher with the 6 kW onboard charger in the 2015 compared to the 3.3 kW unit in the 2011 due to reduced charging time (reduced overhead losses).

Gerry

Nissan acknowledging the GID is news to me... Either way, it does not change the fact that LEAF Spy shows 29.0 kwh available with GID=80 but only 28.1 when GID=77.5

Dave,
I apologize--I could not find a direct reference to 80 Wh per count for the number representing stored watt-hours that we on the forum call GIDs. There are old threads where this is discussed and 80 Wh for each count is presented as a Nissan value. Dividing the stored energy in the battery at low battery warning stated in the service manual by the number of GIDs consistently displayed at LBW yields a number very close to 80 Wh. Obviously, Nissan does not acknowledge the term GID because that is a term created on the forum.

Gerry
 
GerryAZ said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
GerryAZ said:
80 is the value listed in the 2011 service manual, but I have not checked the later manuals. The LEAF onboard chargers operate at essentially 1.0 power factor. I have checked both 3.3 kW in 2011 and 6 kW in 2015 on 120, 208, and 240 volts nominal and was surprised how close they run to unity PF. L2 charging efficiency using the same 30-ampere EVSE is noticeably higher with the 6 kW onboard charger in the 2015 compared to the 3.3 kW unit in the 2011 due to reduced charging time (reduced overhead losses).

Gerry

Nissan acknowledging the GID is news to me... Either way, it does not change the fact that LEAF Spy shows 29.0 kwh available with GID=80 but only 28.1 when GID=77.5

Dave,
I apologize--I could not find a direct reference to 80 Wh per count for the number representing stored watt-hours that we on the forum call GIDs. There are old threads where this is discussed and 80 Wh for each count is presented as a Nissan value. Dividing the stored energy in the battery at low battery warning stated in the service manual by the number of GIDs consistently displayed at LBW yields a number very close to 80 Wh. Obviously, Nissan does not acknowledge the term GID because that is a term created on the forum.

Gerry

Well I was here for all that and never saw any kind of acknowledgment from Nissan concerning the figure but it would have been easy to miss, especially here.

Now, Gary Giddings and others when they initially collected the data and the "GIDmeter" was developed, the GID was assigned a value of 80 watt hours but as time went on, it became obvious that number didn't work in all cases and I have no recollections of the details nor did I participate in the discussions. I "think" part of the reason for the number was based on a 24.0 kwh pack capacity.

Later, LEAF Spy arrived and originally started at 80 watt hours and due to the extra level of data supplied by LEAF Spy, several determined 77.5 watt hours to be a more applicable number. This is also when we started to notice pack capacity was drifting upwards.

As far as who got what, when and whatever? I don't care. The variety of readings collected from day to day (yes, I record LEAF Spy readings EVERY day) tells me it doesn't really matter what the numbers say as long as the relationship between the numbers stay the same. So here goes

GID=80, kwh remaining = 29.0
GID=77.5, kwh=28.1
GID = 75, kwh = 27.2

As you can see, for me to get as low as some people have recorded I would have to have a radical change in the relationship used within LEAF Spy. So therefore, I will stay at what I have been using for the last 5 years which is 77.5

For reference;

2011 LEAF measured 281 peak GIDs using GIDmeter. (LEAF Spy use started month 28 of 35 month lease)
2013 measured 284 GIDs, 22.7 kwh, 67.36 ahr
2016 S30; 363 GIDs, 28.1 kwh, 82.34 ahr
 
Hello all,
In reference to the Gid setting in LeafSpy.
I haven't touched that. Mine defaulted to 77.5
If this relates I get 27 kWh at full charge. Might be a decimal there but I am not at the car now so am estimating.
I do notice that if I uses LeafSpy Miles/ kWh and enter that in the Distance to LBW gauge it hits o within a few seconds of the car actually triggering LBW.
Would I be correct in assuming the the 77.5 number is accurate then? I would think it would have to be if the Distance to LBW tracks with the car.

Leaf Spy is quite handy on the cold days we have had when I decided to see if I could get to work and back (65 miles RT) in Vermont. on a single charge. It does but usually hits LBW just as I get home or if I was going faster and running heat more several miles before home. This is a 2016 SV w/ the 30kWh battery by the way. It really depends on the battery temp I am finding. 3 temp bars in the morning and it's a stretch to get there and back. 4 temp bars and theres no problem.
I have two road choice. One an Interstate and one a state road. 65 vs 50 for speed limits. 600' climb gradual over the duration of the return.

I have looked at the Dist. to LBW reading a couple of times and decided to hit the nearest DC charge before heading home and have been glad i did.

More on topic, My batter reads 97% health which is up from the 95% when I got the car in April and up from the lowest I have read mid summer. It went up on a day I took the car to Boston and back from Montpelier, VT and 6 DC charges in the same day. Some were 30 min and most were more than 20 min. The battery temp got to the second to highest bar on the last charge. Cooled down a couple on the drive. It was fall and a cool evening. When I got home I noticed the Health was higher than I had ever seen it and has stayed there for a couple of months now.

It seems that charging and using isn't that bad for the battery. Especially if it isn't baking hot out.
Form these observations I have decided to just drive the car as I need to and charge as I need to within reason. I will avoid letting the car sit at a high charge and avoid a DC charge if it's baking hot. I don't do many long trips. Where I am a 10 min DC session will usually get me what I need. Now in the cold I charge at home on L1 (I'm in an apartment so that's all I can have) Charge at work on L1 as well. I can then run the interstate @ 65 with the heat on auto set to 70º and make it fine. I don't need 100% charges to do that so the battery will run in a mid range window with a once a week balance charge to 100%.
If i get a bad battery that fails before the warranty I'll deal with that. If it fails after I guess that's the luck. If I get 5-7 years of usable range I'll be quite happy. I will have clocked up quite a few miles if that happens. I'm at 15k in 10 months so will likely be close to 20 in a year. I'll be over 100k in 5 years. We will see if the battery degrades more with time or cycles.

I do pull LeafSpy data once in a while so I will have some records.
 
gregn said:
Hello all,
In reference to the Gid setting in LeafSpy.
I haven't touched that. Mine defaulted to 77.5
If this relates I get 27 kWh at full charge. Might be a decimal there but I am not at the car now so am estimating.
I do notice that if I uses LeafSpy Miles/ kWh and enter that in the Distance to LBW gauge it hits o within a few seconds of the car actually triggering LBW.
Would I be correct in assuming the the 77.5 number is accurate then? I would think it would have to be if the Distance to LBW tracks with the car.

Leaf Spy is quite handy on the cold days we have had when I decided to see if I could get to work and back (65 miles RT) in Vermont. on a single charge. It does but usually hits LBW just as I get home or if I was going faster and running heat more several miles before home. This is a 2016 SV w/ the 30kWh battery by the way. It really depends on the battery temp I am finding. 3 temp bars in the morning and it's a stretch to get there and back. 4 temp bars and theres no problem.
I have two road choice. One an Interstate and one a state road. 65 vs 50 for speed limits. 600' climb gradual over the duration of the return.

I have looked at the Dist. to LBW reading a couple of times and decided to hit the nearest DC charge before heading home and have been glad i did.

More on topic, My batter reads 97% health which is up from the 95% when I got the car in April and up from the lowest I have read mid summer. It went up on a day I took the car to Boston and back from Montpelier, VT and 6 DC charges in the same day. Some were 30 min and most were more than 20 min. The battery temp got to the second to highest bar on the last charge. Cooled down a couple on the drive. It was fall and a cool evening. When I got home I noticed the Health was higher than I had ever seen it and has stayed there for a couple of months now.

It seems that charging and using isn't that bad for the battery. Especially if it isn't baking hot out.
Form these observations I have decided to just drive the car as I need to and charge as I need to within reason. I will avoid letting the car sit at a high charge and avoid a DC charge if it's baking hot. I don't do many long trips. Where I am a 10 min DC session will usually get me what I need. Now in the cold I charge at home on L1 (I'm in an apartment so that's all I can have) Charge at work on L1 as well. I can then run the interstate @ 65 with the heat on auto set to 70º and make it fine. I don't need 100% charges to do that so the battery will run in a mid range window with a once a week balance charge to 100%.
If i get a bad battery that fails before the warranty I'll deal with that. If it fails after I guess that's the luck. If I get 5-7 years of usable range I'll be quite happy. I will have clocked up quite a few miles if that happens. I'm at 15k in 10 months so will likely be close to 20 in a year. I'll be over 100k in 5 years. We will see if the battery degrades more with time or cycles.

I do pull LeafSpy data once in a while so I will have some records.

LEAF Spy should be used as a guideline and that guideline is something that needs to be monitored regularly to see how well its able to predict your range. That is why you want to adjust that "miles per kwh" reading where it gives you the estimated distance and that should be adjusted seasonally.

as far as numbers going up after fast charges? that is normal and that is all I have to say about that.
 
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