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DustanT

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 29, 2017
Messages
81
Location
Northern Michigan
So I have been watching electric cars for years and just waiting for prices to come down and see how reliable they are. I have a Toyota Tacoma and currently i'm driving 65 miles a day for work. I get 17~18 MPG and a big payment. I'd like to buy a used leaf and sell my truck. I know I should get the battery tested by a Nissan dealer. I have found a 2013 Nissan Leaf SL with 34k mi. and asking $10,987 for it. It looks fully loaded. Would it be better to find one with less miles but with a lower trim to keep the price down?



 
Nissan dealers can tell you nothing about the capacity. Two things: look at the build date on the door sticker, and avoid any Leaf built before 4/2013. Also check the car with LeafSpy if you can. If you can't, then assume one less capacity bar than is showing is the actual capacity.
 
Also 65 miles/day is kind of pushing it without 1/2 way charging of some sort. I can do it in the summer with my '13S missing no bars but not in the winter or with my '12SL(which is missing 2 bars) any time of the year.
In your case I'd really look for a 30kwh Leaf, of course they won't be nearly as cheap as a 24kwh Leaf.
 
65 mile commute is too far, unless you are able to reliably charge while at work. The "miles" displayed on the dash are not realistic and don't take all the variations into account. Range at freeway speeds drops pretty fast, range is much better around town at 25-40 mph.
 
Agree on the range. Unless you drive secondary roads at 40-45MPH, that's too far for a non-new 24kwh Leaf. Also, looking at the photo, I don't think it has premium package (no front camera visible) so make sure it has at least a backup camera, which was optional in 2013. But really, you might want to look at used Volts.
 
I can recharge at work that's no problem. Only 120v at work tho. I can install the 240v in my garage. I have found a 15' SV with 11k miles for $11,995. I didn't find KWH in the sale description, is that somewhere else or by the year?

Also I have owned few Prius so I have the hypermiling down and used to sipping gas and using electric mode in town.
 
DustanT said:
I can recharge at work that's no problem. Only 120v at work tho. I can install the 240v in my garage. I have found a 15' SV with 11k miles for $11,995. I didn't find KWH in the sale description, is that somewhere else or by the year?

Also I have owned few Prius so I have the hypermiling down and used to sipping gas and using electric mode in town.
All '11 to '15 Leafs have 24 kWh batteries.

'16 S was 24 kWh until a "S 30" 30 kwh version was quietly introduced: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106593_nissan-leaf-s-quietly-gets-30-kwh-battery-upgrade-higher-price. '16+ SV and SL are all 30 kWh. All '17 Leafs are 30 kWh.

You really need to see how many capacity bars remain (http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/File:Scott_3_bars_s.jpg is a 3 bar loser), see where the vehicle resided before (hot climates == more degradation) via Carfax and/or Autocheck and best to run Leaf Spy on it to look at AHr, SOH and Hx. Please report back on where it resided, # of capacity bars remaining, and build month (on driver's side door sticker) so we can get some idea if the # of capacity bars showing makes sense.

You probably wouldn't want a vehicle that's been a victim of a BMS reset like http://daveinolywa.blogspot.com/2014/11/buyers-beware-this-is-must-read.html.

Can you update your location info via your user name in the upper right > User Control Panel > Profile tab? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it.

You said 65 miles/day. How much city vs. highway?
 
Here is the 2015 SV carfax

https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?vin=1N4AZ0CP2FC309484&partner=COO_0

This is the add on cars.com. It looks like it has 12 bars in the picture, its' a pretty crappy pic tho. I have not looked at this car in person as it's out of state.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/689277183/overview/

Right now i'm researching and want to make the best informed decision I can. If the leaf can't do what I ask then I understand that completely. Your not going to hurt my feelings to flat out tell me no this won't work for you. :)

If a 2016 s with the 30kwh is the only leaf that can do what I need then that is the answer I need.

Driving conditions here

12 miles on 2 lane at 55mph rolling hills to freeway
10 miles on freeway at 70mph
10 miles on side roads from up to 55mph
 
If you can recharge at work all or most of the day, then a Leaf could work - just realize that if you can't charge one day, you might have to drive home at 30MPH. I'd also try to cut the 70MPH stretch down to 65MPH. The nice thing about a Volt is that you could run that as a full EV any day you can recharge at work, and then if you can't, drive it home at 70 anyway.
 
DustanT said:
]
Right now i'm researching and want to make the best informed decision I can. If the leaf can't do what I ask then I understand that completely. Your not going to hurt my feelings to flat out tell me no this won't work for you. :)

If a 2016 s with the 30kwh is the only leaf that can do what I need then that is the answer I need.

Driving conditions here

12 miles on 2 lane at 55mph rolling hills to freeway
10 miles on freeway at 70mph
10 miles on side roads from up to 55mph

My commute is very similar to yours with the exception that my return trip has a 750 ft elevation gain.

Being unsure about work charging availability was what initially drove me to chose the Volt. As time went on, I found that I could charge on 120V and later led an effort to get some L2 240V installed at work. You should be able to fully recover your loss during an 8 hour day at 120V, I found it usually took about 6 hours.

You'll find the Leaf (or any EV) has very predictable usage depending on temperature and weather (slushy snow and rain reduce range). You might find you need a backup plan when temps get too low. I haven't had my 2013 Leaf long, but have found that I have plenty of range to make it both ways when temps are over 50 and dry, and one way down to at least zero (we don't get much lower here). I recognize that it may not be possible to make the commute when the car loses a few bars at lower temps, and will then make it a kids car.

One thing I didn't think about when buying was with 110/120V charging I was unable to make a 25 mile midday offsite lunch trip because I might not recharge quick enough.

If you have another option you can use sporadically in very low temps, I wouldn't have any concern at all with recommending the Leaf.
 
DustanT said:
Here is the 2015 SV carfax

https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHistory/p/Report.cfx?vin=1N4AZ0CP2FC309484&partner=COO_0

This is the add on cars.com. It looks like it has 12 bars in the picture, its' a pretty crappy pic tho. I have not looked at this car in person as it's out of state.

https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/detail/689277183/overview/
From the pics, it's definitely an SV since it has a light interior. That's the only trim starting from model year 2013 that could have a light interior. For MY 2013 to 2015 (and possibly thru '17), SV can also have black cloth interior. S is black cloth only. SL is black leather only.

I can see that car has a CHAdeMO inlet, so it has the "LED Headlights + Quick Charge Port" package (see specs tab of http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2015-nissan-leaf-press-kit). It looks like it does NOT have the premium package as the Around View Monitor camera would add coiled wire to the front camera (under the Nissan hamburger).

It isn't that uncommon for ads to misrepresent the car's equipment level or trim. Sometimes it's a shady dealer and other times it's just that they don't know Leafs well.
(As reference, a '13 SL w/premium package is at http://sfbayleafs.org/commentary/2013/09/2013-vs-2011-nissan-leaf-whats-new-whats-gone-whats-changed/. Pic under "Charging port hatch with remote keyfob release and light, option to lock the plug in place" shows the coiled wire for camera. I used to lease a '13 SV w/light interior and both packages. I now own a used '13 SV w/black interior w/premium package only.)
 
I spoke with my boss at work and he thinks getting a 220v outlet shouldn't be to big problem. So if I can charge at both places on the fast charger I "should" be ok. My garage is heated all winter so the cold is only a factor while its at work. But with the charger I'm thinking its ok.
 
We get what you mean, but a quick terminology refresher will help future readers. US grid power is now 120/240 volts, and the 120 and 240 volt charging cables and stations are called either that or the less user-friendly "EVSE." If no one has mentioned EVSE Upgrade for the OEM charging cable yet, look into that. It will let you charge at 240 volts, 16 amps.
 
OK I see the upgrade looks like a 3 prong plug with a lip, we have this at work for equipment to plug into already. So the one hanging on walls I see is basically the same as this one?. Just needs a double pull 30amp with the same style female connector installed it looks like.
 
Sounds like OP has access to workplace charging, and/or the boss is willing to help make it possible. So a 24kwh leaf might very well work (except for maybe the scenario where you've lost 3 bars, and it's below 0 F outside). So the only issue remaining is price.

And I think this posting might help with that: http://mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=23060

market rate for 2013's seems to be ~$7k.
 
DustanT said:
OK I see the upgrade looks like a 3 prong plug with a lip, we have this at work for equipment to plug into already. So the one hanging on walls I see is basically the same as this one?. Just needs a double pull 30amp with the same style female connector installed it looks like.

You can get whatever plug you need by requesting it of EVSE Upgrade while they have your charging cable, and can also get a 120 volt adapter so it will still charge at that voltage as well.
 
DustanT said:
OK I see the upgrade looks like a 3 prong plug with a lip, we have this at work for equipment to plug into already. So the one hanging on walls I see is basically the same as this one?. Just needs a double pull 30amp with the same style female connector installed it looks like.
be advised that there are multiple options. They used to provide either a L6-20 or L6-30 (number is the circuit breaker amps). We have many different types at work, including 3-phase which look similar but ARE NOT compatible! You can look at a diagram of all NEMA plug types at Wikipedia. For additional help, take a picture of the outlet and send it to evseupgrade.
Also, make sure you pay for the electricity and get approved in writing so that other jealous gas drivers don't complain about "free gas"
 
DustanT said:
OK I see the upgrade looks like a 3 prong plug with a lip, we have this at work for equipment to plug into already. So the one hanging on walls I see is basically the same as this one?. Just needs a double pull 30amp with the same style female connector installed it looks like.
If your Leaf is indeed a '15 with a 6.6kw charger I would NOT suggest the EVSEupgrade route, it will only give you up to 16a which is far less than the Leaf is capable of(only gains you ~16% battery charge per 1hr on a 24kwh Leaf). If you were OK with ~7hrs to recharge your battery from a very low state of charge(cutting it pretty close for an 8hr work day when at times you may need close to 100% of the battery to make it to work) I would instead suggest one of the several other EVSEs that are priced about the same as upgrading your existing EVSE. In your case and especially since it sounds like your work is willing to let you charge at 240v I'd really suggest a 30a portable EVSE, assuming your work has a 30a outlet.
If your work has a variety of 240v outlets you can use this handy reference chart to see how many volts and amps the outlet is rated at max.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NEMA_connector go down a couple pages and chart is on right.
With a 20a EVSE expect to gain ~20%/hr which would take ~5hrs for a low battery, the best would be a 30a outlet(24a continuous draw) which should gain you ~25%/hr or 4hrs to recharge your battery.
Finding a portable 30a EVSE isn't as easy or cheap as a 16a EVSE(which start ~$300) but they are available from ~$400 and up.
I've kind of standardized on the L6-30 plug and have made several different adapters to go from that to a variety of 240v and 120v outlets. My Juicebox EVSE which goes up to 40a used the Tesla standard 14-50 plug so I've also made adapters to go from that to a variety of 240v and 120v outlets.

Even with your short commute if running moderate heat and temps in the teens or cooler and maybe snowing, you should be able to make your work, assuming your Leaf has all bars or maybe only missing one. 1/2 way charging in such situations will be critical and for most of the day(depends on your charging rate) I would NOT suggest this with only L1 charging, again except for summer when L1 would probably fine, heck with a 12 bar Leaf you could probably make it RT without a charge but again return with basically an empty battery.
 
Wow lots of info to read through here thanks a lot guys. Can someone explain the incentives? I called a dealer near me and asked if I could get some info on a leaf they asked what was a leaf. Needless to say I said uh never mind and hung up. What is the real price of the car and how is the incentive applied.
 
DustanT said:
Wow lots of info to read through here thanks a lot guys. Can someone explain the incentives? I called a dealer near me and asked if I could get some info on a leaf they asked what was a leaf. Needless to say I said uh never mind and hung up. What is the real price of the car and how is the incentive applied.

Not sure which incentives you're referring to, but both the federal and any state incentives are for new cars only. The NMAC manufacturer and dealership incentives also apply to new vehicles only too - regardless of lease or purchase. I thought I heard of a used-car incentive in colorado, but I don't know the details of that one.

Which are you asking about?
 
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