NissanConnect EV / Telematics Hardware Update, for the post-2G world

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Now been about 28 days since the first TCU "upgrade" and 21 days since the second replacement. Still not working after even an escalated case with Nissan Consumer Affairs, but I do have a case manager giving me updates every 2 days or so.

Dealership service team (NC) reported they did these replacements on 80 vehicles. Mine is 1 of 5 vehicles that continue to not work. A full refund has been offered, and is in process. If this a representative population, it appears about 15 pct of Leafs are experiencing this issue.

I happened to run into the regional Nissan tech representative and he personally took my case and will also be following up with it. I explained to him the different battery theories and the low voltage hypothesis. He seemed skeptical but he did take notes, indicating that a fault code would have resulted. We'll see what happens.
 
I drove down to turtle yesterday because I was forced to run the defroster at max to deal with the weather. I discovered that when at very low battery warning the main pack will no longer continuously power the 12v battery and will instead pulse it periodically.

My 12v system voltage dropped to about 12.3-12.4 volts. No warning lights of any kind came on. Guess what, my Carwings stopped responding right then and there in the driveway at home. Plugged in the car and ensured 12v battery was charging, went back out to the car 1 hour later, pressed "reset all Carwings settings" and then entered my username and password again. 10 minutes later it was working again.
 
When I mentioned a fault code for the battery, I meant the diagnostic equipment they use to check the car. It is certainly possible that their diagnostics are not setup to check for voltage dropping to 12.3...but I guess I'll find out soon from the case team.

So assuming my main traction battery is charged to 100 pct...wouldnt that also maintain the car battery at sufficient voltage?

Or if the car battery is too old, then it just does not maintain the right level of voltage ever again?
 
There are probably a few things going on. Firstly when you plug in, the mainpack starts charging and also the 12v battery gets charged at 14.4v. If you leave the car plugged in after the charge is complete, it will no longer supply power to the 12v for as long as it's plugged in no matter what. So if you leave your car plugged in all weekend and don't drive it then you may have a weak 12v when you try to drive it. If you leave the car unplugged it will periodically charge the 12v from the main pack, though this could only be a maintainer charge and not get the battery much above 13v.

Then there is the behavior of the charging scheme that leads to the 12v lead acid battery becoming weak in the first place described here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22752

And on top of that it is quite normal to see 12.4 volts on the 12v system when using high heater, wipers, heated seats, etc. in normal day to day driving even with a healthy 12v battery, and it seems like the car was designed around those voltages because nothing else is affected. Then it's also winter time and low temperatures will drop the voltage of even a healthy battery by a few points.

It is like clockwork. I will make a video where I film a multimeter reading the 12v system voltage. I'll have the car switched off and I will use a lamp or something to slowly drain the 12v battery. The whole time I will constantly ping Carwings with my phone, we will see the voltage it stops responding. I am deep in this 12v rabbit hole and going deeper, but luckily it's warm and pre-heated :D
 
Just a quick note to add another successful 3G upgrade to the list. Carwings responded on the third day after installation and after a full day of sitting in a strong signal area (not the house).

3G Signal is stronger in our driveway (worked once in a year before, works 9/10 times now in the same spot) so I'm happy with that.

Hoping someone figures out how to connect this up to the ATT microcell so I can use it in the garage!
 
jstoos said:
(3) I suspect that the up and down nature of our NissanConnect experience usually has more to do with what is going on at their end, and that may not even be under Nissan's control but some third party company which would explain the poor communication.

I suspect this is closest to the truth. There are 2 things that have to happen even if the TCU/modem upgrade is properly installed:
1) AT&T has to activate the modem SIM on their network
2) Nissan's server/network must be "up" (and we all know from day 1 with our Leaf this is not always the case)
 
VitaminJ said:
There are probably a few things going on. Firstly when you plug in, the mainpack starts charging and also the 12v battery gets charged at 14.4v. If you leave the car plugged in after the charge is complete, it will no longer supply power to the 12v for as long as it's plugged in no matter what. So if you leave your car plugged in all weekend and don't drive it then you may have a weak 12v when you try to drive it. If you leave the car unplugged it will periodically charge the 12v from the main pack, though this could only be a maintainer charge and not get the battery much above 13v.

Then there is the behavior of the charging scheme that leads to the 12v lead acid battery becoming weak in the first place described here:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=22752

And on top of that it is quite normal to see 12.4 volts on the 12v system when using high heater, wipers, heated seats, etc. in normal day to day driving even with a healthy 12v battery, and it seems like the car was designed around those voltages because nothing else is affected. Then it's also winter time and low temperatures will drop the voltage of even a healthy battery by a few points.

It is like clockwork. I will make a video where I film a multimeter reading the 12v system voltage. I'll have the car switched off and I will use a lamp or something to slowly drain the 12v battery. The whole time I will constantly ping Carwings with my phone, we will see the voltage it stops responding. I am deep in this 12v rabbit hole and going deeper, but luckily it's warm and pre-heated :D

Seems incorrect. There is no difference in plugged in or not. 12V battery is maintained the same way. Once every 5 days on older models, once every 24h on newer.
12V system never gets below 13V at whatever load while Leaf is in ready mode. In cold weather (below +3C) system is not lowering to 13V level, keeps at 14.5V.

All equipment is designed to run between 11.5-15.5V. Some stuff works down to 8V (Leaf doesn't have that, glow plugs, starter motor etc).
You can turn on the headlights while Leaf off. Will drain the 12V.
TCU will definitely work at 11.5V. Depending on load and temperature, this might mean 12V battery is around 5-15% charged. Which is very low. But should be enough to re-engage contactors.
 
arnis said:
Seems incorrect. There is no difference in plugged in or not. 12V battery is maintained the same way. Once every 5 days on older models, once every 24h on newer.
12V system never gets below 13V at whatever load while Leaf is in ready mode. In cold weather (below +3C) system is not lowering to 13V level, keeps at 14.5V.
Mine doesn't. I have been driving around all day today watching Leaf Spy and sometimes it is 14.56v but most of the time it is 12.96v. It is -5C today. I was just on the CHAdeMO for 30 mins and for the whole charge it was at 14.56v, I had the car in ready mode with heater and audio running. Once the charging stopped the car remained in ready mode, but voltage immediately dropped to 12.1v (all load on battery no load on DC-DC converter) until I unplugged CHAdeMO and re-started car. Guess what Carwings stopped working right then, it timed out. During the charge I had updated Carwings twice. Then when the voltage dropped to 12.1v I tried updating again and it timed out. It still doesn't work even now that I drove around for another 45 minutes and the 12 battery is well over 13v. I just parked 5 minutes ago so this is fresh on my mind.
 
I just went out to the car a few minutes ago and this is what I know:

Once the 12v system drops below a certain point the TCU malfunctions. In-car updating works, but out-of-car apps don't work. It doesn't matter if the 12v system comes back up to the right voltage afterwards, either. Once it gets into that state it is "stuck."

To "un-stick" I have simplified the procedure. There is no need to disconnect the battery terminal. All that is needed is to turn on the car ready to drive, press Carwings, Settings, and choose Reset all Carwings Settings. Make sure it actually does it, sometimes it says telematics are busy. Once that is complete, simply go to Sign In, and sign in again using the username and password Nissan gave you.

After that it works again, until the 12v system drops too low...


This is a screenshot I took that has the info from the last time I tried to ping Carwings after my voltage dropped to 12.1v:
Screenshot_2017-02-02-14-37-00.png



This is a screenshot I took about 5 minutes after I reset my Carwings data:
Screenshot_2017-02-02-14-37-09.png



I have a 8/2013 SV with the 3G TCU update. I am using Leaf Spy Pro with a Konnwei KW902 OBD-II adapter to measure 12v system voltage. What works for my car might not work for every car but it is 100% repeatable for me.
 
VitaminJ said:
arnis said:
Seems incorrect. There is no difference in plugged in or not. 12V battery is maintained the same way. Once every 5 days on older models, once every 24h on newer.
12V system never gets below 13V at whatever load while Leaf is in ready mode. In cold weather (below +3C) system is not lowering to 13V level, keeps at 14.5V.
Mine doesn't. I have been driving around all day today watching Leaf Spy and sometimes it is 14.56v but most of the time it is 12.96v. It is -5C today. I was just on the CHAdeMO for 30 mins and for the whole charge it was at 14.56v, I had the car in ready mode with heater and audio running. Once the charging stopped the car remained in ready mode, but voltage immediately dropped to 12.1v (all load on battery no load on DC-DC converter) until I unplugged CHAdeMO and re-started car. Guess what Carwings stopped working right then, it timed out. During the charge I had updated Carwings twice. Then when the voltage dropped to 12.1v I tried updating again and it timed out. It still doesn't work even now that I drove around for another 45 minutes and the 12 battery is well over 13v. I just parked 5 minutes ago so this is fresh on my mind.

If you have a plug inserted vehicle does NOT engage READY. (green car symbol with arrows).
But it does engage contactor and therefore ACC mode is available with DC-DC converter enabled.
AS SOON as charging stops contactor is disabled. This means DC-DC converter is killed.

Interesting. At -5C 2014 Leaf definitely keeps voltage always at 14.5V. Actually the current sensor must be below +3C, not outside temperature sensor. If car was stored in warm garage, that means 12V battery is also warm. That warmth is transferred to current sensor on negative terminal. This is exactly how it was designed to work.
 
Update: After disconnecting my 12v battery on 1/28 I think I failed to get a charging complete notification the morning of 1/29 but other than that it has been working great! I did go to the dealer on 1/31 to have them check things over. The only thing they found was DTC B29C1 "EVSE [SIGNAL STUCK LOW]" which was probably what had turned on my EV System warning light. No obvious problem with my EVSE but we did have some short power outages that may have caused that.
 
My Telematics nighmare:

Dealer ordered 3G part. Called and told me to bring the car in. I was expecting a 2 hour turn around so I used Uber for the day. On day TEN they called and said your car is ready. I looked at my phone app. Car wasn't there. Called Nissan customer care and asked if they saw my car online. They said nope. I drove my rental car to the dealer (which I'm paying for) to check on the car. Dealer says that will be $200. I said Nissan says they don't see the car online. Service guy checks it and yep its not connecting. I leave the car at the dealer. On day 12 I called the service manager and ask if my car is ready. He says no. I say, have it ready for pick up in 30 minutes. He said no problem. Just pay the $200 and I can pick it up. I told him I'm not paying for anything if its not working. He said then you won't be picking up the car. I told him to rip it out then I don't care what you do but I'm picking up my car in 30 minutes. We went back and forth. I told him I'd lawyer up bla bla bla. Then I said look if it starts working I'll come back to the dealer and pay in full. I really would I don't want anything for free. I did pick up my car in 30 minutes. The rental charge killed me for almost two weeks. I've had the car back for about two weeks. It's still down. I have full cell bars. I've tried all the tricks, pulled the battery, reset my online account, tried connecting at different locations. Nothing has worked.

I called Nissan customer care, they all go through the same checks. I did get a hold of one lady that said if you receive a b02 error, take it back to the dealer because they have reversed the usb cables. I laughed and said it has usb? She said yes it does. So for kicks I pulled the glove compartment and there was the module making my life hell (at least for the cost of the rental car). I take the module loose and guess what. No usb. Its all standard car wiring. 3 connectors. One being the cell antenna. If you ever wanted to know what a telematics module looks like, I took a picture of it. Couldn't figure out how to attach to this post.

My module will never work so I'll try a different dealer when I'm feeling up to taking it back. The customer service lady also said out of the 30 TCUs she has tried to help with only 1 has come online and it was in Hawaii.

Just my story
 
Just an update to my earlier post for anyone contemplating the TCU upgrade in the Indianapolis area.

I ended up getting the TCU installed with Hubler Nissan in Greenwood. They were very easy to work with and did not require the "pre-inspection" service appointment that Ed Martin said was necessary. The Service Tech at Hubler just asked for my VIN and verified that I had a 2G unit over the phone (2013 SV). They ordered the part and it took about two weeks to arrive.

I scheduled a service appt and had the TCU installed two days ago. Just took a couple of hours as expected. When I picked the car up, the Service Tech's note was that "all functions are now operating as normal". I was immediately able to connect to the communication center via the car lcd and update stations. I was also able to "Sign In" via the car lcd under Carwings using the same ID and password. No reset of new password necessary. It just gave me a "your account is activated" message after doing so.

I was not able to connect to the car using the NissanConnectEV app until about 24 hours later, but that seems to be working now.

The Carwings Info screen in the car still shows **** for the phone number. Not sure if that is normal or not, but it seems to work regardless.

All in all, the experience with Hubler Nissan was good and I'd recommend anyone considering the upgrade in the Indy area to give them a call. The Service Tech (Mark) said that mine was the 3rd or 4th 3G TCU upgrade they had done.

Jon
 
Cleo5 said:
My Telematics nighmare:

These types of stories are disconcerting, but it doesn't help if we don't know where you live and (especially in this case) what dealer did the work. That might prevent someone else from re-living your "nightmare" as this dealer obviously doesn't know how to perform the upgrade!
 
KK6PD said:
Well, whomever thought about and figured out the low battery thing, if your in the Los Angeles area, I owe you some beers!
My TCU was replaced on 12/26, and all was well, well it did take 8 hours, blah blah... anyway I communicate with the car 3 to 6 times during the day, and the system always worked well for me. 2G, and 3G, well 3G for 3 weeks .... last week I too stopped "talking" to the EV Gods, crap!
Today I checked in, read, and well yes, my battery sits at 12.3 volts. H'mmmmm, I just happen to have a brand new battery just waiting for a reason to install it, so I installed the new battery, I also keep a power source on the battery leads as I swap battery's, I hate resetting stuff!
So new battery in, I then fired up laptop, went to Nissan Connect, logged in, retrieved my ID/Psswd, brought that to the car, logged the car out, erased stored password, typed my downloaded info, entered it and stood back!
No smoke, no connect, well, let's let the radio & electron gods figure it out.
Let's add music to my Ipod. Time goes by and lo & behold ....
At 4:20, I checked the NissanConnect site, hit refresh, and BAM, it's now working!

SWEET!!

Checked on multiple devices, all is good, damn, the battery tip worked..... thanks..... :D

YYYYaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyy!!!!

Yep, same here! I guess I don't know for sure if simply disconnecting/reconnecting the old battery would have solved the problem, but I was down to 12.15v, and the battery is 5 1/2 years old (original in a 2011). I decided not to mess with upgrading to a lithium. Got a lead-acid at Costco. They sell Interstate batteries, and their book didn't have the LEAF in it. So I just bought the smallest they have (model 11 I think) and it fit perfectly. Now all is well with Carwings, at least for now.

Thank goodness for this forum!
 
Another troubleshooting method is in the portal, go to Manage Vehicles, Edit Vehicles, DECLINE the EV agreement and re-enroll. Back in the car, delete your carwings and enter the NEW login credentials. Prior I would get failed remote climate messages or timeouts with 0 for range.
 
I wouldn't decline the agreement and re-enroll, as there's a growing group of owners who did that and now we can't get past the step where one accepts the "NissanConnect EV Consent" and the "NissanConnect EV Subscription Agreement" legal crap and then click Accept. After clicking on the Accept button, we get a message as follows:

"Attention: we were unable to complete your request. Please contact EV Customer Support at (877) NO GAS EV (or 877-664-2738). When we call Nissan at that number, they just give us the run around.
 
VitaminJ said:
And on top of that it is quite normal to see 12.4 volts on the 12v system when using high heater, wipers, heated seats, etc. in normal day to day driving even with a healthy 12v battery
No, I've never seen my 12V drop below 13.0V when the car is on, no matter how much load is put on the 12V system. The DC-DC converter is quite capable of supply tons of current to power all 12V accessories. In fact, the car even boosts the voltage up to 14.4V whenever you use the wipers.
 
drees said:
No, I've never seen my 12V drop below 13.0V when the car is on, no matter how much load is put on the 12V system. The DC-DC converter is quite capable of supply tons of current to power all 12V accessories. In fact, the car even boosts the voltage up to 14.4V whenever you use the wipers.
I have. :roll: I have posted several scenarios in this thread so far. The most consistent time to see it is when the low battery and very low battery alarms come on. The DC converter does not supply constant 13v during this period.
 
VitaminJ said:
drees said:
No, I've never seen my 12V drop below 13.0V when the car is on, no matter how much load is put on the 12V system. The DC-DC converter is quite capable of supply tons of current to power all 12V accessories. In fact, the car even boosts the voltage up to 14.4V whenever you use the wipers.
I have. :roll: I have posted several scenarios in this thread so far. The most consistent time to see it is when the low battery and very low battery alarms come on. The DC converter does not supply constant 13v during this period.

I agree with Drees--I am on my second LEAF and both hold (or held) the 12-volt battery float voltage constant. If your 12-volt battery is dropping when the traction battery is low, you have something wrong with your car.

Gerry
 
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