Anybody with 2011 or 2012 interested in upgrade to new battery?

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Thanks Valdemar.
I've actually used that program for re-flashing electric bike motors-I sell and meddle with eBikes. However I did it purely in a following the instructions kind of way and didn't have a clue what any of the values meant. Maybe its time to learn a little more?
A fellow NZ-based Leaf tinkerer is Russian so if you can dredge the actual post, the language won't necessarily be a barrier.
 
NiallDarwin said:
Hello World, long time watcher, first time poster here.
I’ve just been through the process of swapping Gen2 cells into a Gen1 case. Unfortunately, we got gung-ho, decided Nissan surely wouldn’t change the order of wires in the BMS connector and were quickly proved wrong by the smoke getting out. It seems pretty certain that Nissan won’t help me out with programming a BMS to suit my home-modified pack. After reading this thread I think there’s hope.
Thanks so much for sharing your work so far. I wish I’d found this about 3 days ago :oops:
Hi Niall,
I think your safest bet is to buy a Gen 1 BMS computer and move IC9 from the bad one to the replacement BMS, because as far as I have been able to determine, all the "identity" of the BMS is stored in there. IC9 is the serial memory right next to IC1, the big processor chip.
Blowing the ASICs like you have done, does not affect the processor, since it is optically isolated from the high voltage circuits with the 24 ASICs that measure and balance the cells.
Once IC9 is soldered in the correct orientation on the replacement BMS, make sure to use the *old* wiring on all your packs to match the Gen 1 BMS.
Make sure you buy a Gen 1 BMS with all white connectors to swap IC9 into.
The best option at this moment on Ebay is one for $60 with free worldwide shipping:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nissan-Leaf-2011-BMS-for-battery-managing-with-wires-/332086774774
The wires may come in handy if your connectors were damaged in the process of blowing the BMS.
Success,
Cor.
 
Cor, order placed. Thanks for the help and encouragement.
I'd also like to try cloning that chip seeing as its so vital to the car's correct functioning. Luckily some local geeks seem keen and able to help with that.
I'll keep you posted.
 
And to think I gave away the BMS that came with the contactors I needed because I didn't think it would have much value with it being hard coded to a specific LEAF :)
 
QueenBee said:
And to think I gave away the BMS that came with the contactors I needed because I didn't think it would have much value with it being hard coded to a specific LEAF :)
Well, we'll see. So far its just a maybe :)
 
With 118mi of range https://www.iaai.com/Vehicle?itemID=23959551&RowNumber=0&loadRecent=True has to be a 30kwh model right? Most auction wrecks don't have a pic of the max mileage, is there some other definitive way to tell the 30kwh from the 24kwh? Sure would like to get my hands on a 30kw pack.
 
Kris1 said:
With 118mi of range https://www.iaai.com/Vehicle?itemID=23959551&RowNumber=0&loadRecent=True has to be a 30kwh model right? Most auction wrecks don't have a pic of the max mileage, is there some other definitive way to tell the 30kwh from the 24kwh? Sure would like to get my hands on a 30kw pack.
The GOM is crap. That said, all US '16 SV and SL are supposed to have the 30 kWh battery. See Specs tab of http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2016-nissan-leaf-press-kit. From that pics, it's definitely not an S and it looks like an SL.

What are you going to do w/a 30 kWh pack once you get your hands on it?
 
That said, all US '16 SV and SL are supposed to have the 30 kWh battery. See Specs tab of http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit.

I wanted to say that, but with all the overlap with other pack changes and model years, I wasn't 100% sure that all the 2016 Leafs above S trim have the 30kwh pack. Thanks for the link.
 
LeftieBiker said:
That said, all US '16 SV and SL are supposed to have the 30 kWh battery. See Specs tab of http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/ ... -press-kit.

I wanted to say that, but with all the overlap with other pack changes and model years, I wasn't 100% sure that all the 2016 Leafs above S trim have the 30kwh pack. Thanks for the link.
Indeed. 2016 S trim only had 24 kWh pack until Nissan quietly updated it to also include a 30 kWh pack near the end of the '16 model year: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1106593_nissan-leaf-s-quietly-gets-30-kwh-battery-upgrade-higher-price.
 
Even if it is that simple, it won't be simple. lol. But there are guys out there building their own versions of the Telsa PowerWall using laptop cells put together.
 
cwerdna said:
Kris1 said:
What are you going to do w/a 30 kWh pack once you get your hands on it?

I'd like to pull the modules out then swap them into my 2012 nine bar 90km range pack
And you really think it'll be that simple?
If the cells are dimensionally the same and he doesn't expect more than 24kwhr then yes it is.

There is always the chance the system will learn to a bigger capacity but less degrading would be nice?
 
Not expecting simple, would settle for achievable. Probably just a pipe dream, so hard to access the affordable higher capacity modules from down under, feels like I'm on another planet some days. Someone is bound to give it a shot though.
 
It’s been a while so here’s a progress update:

Swapping Generation 2 (G2) cells into a Generation 1 (G1) Nissan Leaf project update.

1/ Recap
We swapped the G2 cells into our original G1 case. We kept the wiring, busbars etc from the G2 intact but kept the temp sensors, relays and other non-cell stuff of the G1. Our initial assumption that the Battery Management Computer (BMS) sense leads would be identically wired in both generations was proved wrong when we connected the G1 BMS computer to the G2 loom and, “Let the smoke out”, i.e. burnt some electronics in the BMS. :shock: :oops:
Lesson 1: Don’t make assumptions when a couple of quick tests can provide data.
This was a big problem because it seems that the car will only talk to the BMS it is programmed to. Only Nissan can re-program it and they are not keen on helping. Some research and help from good guys both here on MNL (I’m not going to explain that acronym!) and other places led us to believe that the ID of the BMS is held on one chip, IC9. This chip is fairly easy to move with good hobby solder and de-solder equipment.

2/ Update
We obtained another G1 BMS and set off to try again.
First we swapped the bus bars and sense leads from the G1 cells onto the G2 cells. This wasn’t too bad because the leads are all held nicely in place by the insulators. With some power tools (set to lowest torque) and a decent height workbench it was a quick process. We kept the metalwork structure of the G2 cells and this meant a little modification to the main (rear) cell bank. There’s a bar which goes right across the pack on the G2 which when combined with G1 conductors would perfectly short-out the 200V, 12kWh bank. So we cut down it rather than starting an impressive fire-this was a literal hack using a hacksaw!
Next we de-soldered the all-important chip, IC9, backed up its contents with an EPROM flasher/reader, then soldered it onto our replacement G1 BMS. This all went smoothly.
Bringing the rebuilt cells and BMS together in the G1 case all seemed good. Lid bolted down, battery bolted into car, connections made, park-lock override fuses and 12V reconnected, power button, hmmm. Not good...
We had battery health bars showing but no state of charge (fuel gauge equivalent) and no range, just ---. Leaf spy showed pack voltage OK and SOC at about 40% which is what we expected. However it had no individual cell data. Some head scratching, a realisation and a few choice curses later I realised I hadn’t put the busbar connecting the two smaller cell banks in. :x :oops: :x
Lesson 2: Check your work before testing it.
Off with the 12V and connectors, down with the battery, off with the case, in with the busbar, on with the case, up with the battery, on with the leads and 12V, on with the power button, same result. Its late now and we’re at high mistake risk so tidy up, go home and think.

Three possibilities spring to mind:
1. We fried another BMS. With that busbar out the power may have tried to go through the BMS instead. We’re not sure we heard the isolating relays clunk and so we’re not sure any power has even tried to get through.
2. We messed up on the restart procedure.
3. Something wasn’t right with the new BMS and what we did to it. Firmware issues? Changing IC9 isn’t the magic bullet?

We have our feelers out for anothernother BMS but are not sure what exactly to investigate if this isn’t the cause. We are however enjoying the process. We are learning lots.
Any ideas and theories will be gratefully received and considered :mrgreen:
 
^^^
I'm assuming by "G1", you're referring to 2011 to 2012 model year Leafs and "G2" would be 2013 to 2015?

To me, Leaf is still gen 1, although 2013 was marked a mid-cycle refresh w/significant changes, so maybe call that gen 1.5? Not sure what I'd call 30 kWh models (e.g. 2016 Leaf SV, SL and "S30", 2017 Leaf) other than that.

I'd expect even greater challenges for someone with a 2011 or 2012 trying to get a 30 kWh pack or its cells to work. I doubt Nissan had backwards compatibility in mind during the engineering and design phase.
 
NiallDarwin said:
It’s been a while so here’s a progress update:

Swapping Generation 2 (G2) cells into a Generation 1 (G1) Nissan Leaf project update.

1/ Recap
We swapped the G2 cells into our original G1 case. We kept the wiring, busbars etc from the G2 intact but kept the temp sensors, relays and other non-cell stuff of the G1. Our initial assumption that the Battery Management Computer (BMS) sense leads would be identically wired in both generations was proved wrong when we connected the G1 BMS computer to the G2 loom and, “Let the smoke out”, i.e. burnt some electronics in the BMS. :shock: :oops:
Lesson 1: Don’t make assumptions when a couple of quick tests can provide data.
This was a big problem because it seems that the car will only talk to the BMS it is programmed to. Only Nissan can re-program it and they are not keen on helping. Some research and help from good guys both here on MNL (I’m not going to explain that acronym!) and other places led us to believe that the ID of the BMS is held on one chip, IC9. This chip is fairly easy to move with good hobby solder and de-solder equipment.

2/ Update
We obtained another G1 BMS and set off to try again.
First we swapped the bus bars and sense leads from the G1 cells onto the G2 cells. This wasn’t too bad because the leads are all held nicely in place by the insulators. With some power tools (set to lowest torque) and a decent height workbench it was a quick process. We kept the metalwork structure of the G2 cells and this meant a little modification to the main (rear) cell bank. There’s a bar which goes right across the pack on the G2 which when combined with G1 conductors would perfectly short-out the 200V, 12kWh bank. So we cut down it rather than starting an impressive fire-this was a literal hack using a hacksaw!
Next we de-soldered the all-important chip, IC9, backed up its contents with an EPROM flasher/reader, then soldered it onto our replacement G1 BMS. This all went smoothly.
Bringing the rebuilt cells and BMS together in the G1 case all seemed good. Lid bolted down, battery bolted into car, connections made, park-lock override fuses and 12V reconnected, power button, hmmm. Not good...
We had battery health bars showing but no state of charge (fuel gauge equivalent) and no range, just ---. Leaf spy showed pack voltage OK and SOC at about 40% which is what we expected. However it had no individual cell data. Some head scratching, a realisation and a few choice curses later I realised I hadn’t put the busbar connecting the two smaller cell banks in. :x :oops: :x
Lesson 2: Check your work before testing it.
Off with the 12V and connectors, down with the battery, off with the case, in with the busbar, on with the case, up with the battery, on with the leads and 12V, on with the power button, same result. Its late now and we’re at high mistake risk so tidy up, go home and think.

Three possibilities spring to mind:
1. We fried another BMS. With that busbar out the power may have tried to go through the BMS instead. We’re not sure we heard the isolating relays clunk and so we’re not sure any power has even tried to get through.
2. We messed up on the restart procedure.
3. Something wasn’t right with the new BMS and what we did to it. Firmware issues? Changing IC9 isn’t the magic bullet?

We have our feelers out for anothernother BMS but are not sure what exactly to investigate if this isn’t the cause. We are however enjoying the process. We are learning lots.
Any ideas and theories will be gratefully received and considered :mrgreen:

I believe that the user Cor has done that swap... maybe he could help... try to contact him.
 
NiallDarwin said:
It’s been a while so here’s a progress update:

Swapping Generation 2 (G2) cells into a Generation 1 (G1) Nissan Leaf project update.

1/ Recap
We swapped the G2 cells into our original G1 case.

No advice but lots of encouragement. Fascinating read, thanks for the update.

Good luck!
 
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