Seriously considering a 2013 Model S - What Should I Know?

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lencap

Member
Joined
May 4, 2013
Messages
22
Location
Raleigh NC
Greetings -

I leased a 2013 Leaf years ago and returned it after the 2 year lease expired. At the time I had the quick charge option, which was useful. I didn't have any significant issues with the car I did have some minor issues (charging problems - electronics), all covered under warranty, but more frequent that I expected.

After the lease ended I leased a 2014 BMW i3 ReX, an EV with an onboard generator fueled by a 2 gallon gas tank. The BMW was a more enjoyable car to drive (sorry, not meaning to be offensive), but it suffered from several electrical and other issues, especially poor range in cold weather.

When that lease expired I realized that my car needs changed and I bought a larger sized ICE. I really miss the EV driving experience and I'm looking at buying a used 2013 Leaf S - base car with the 3.3KW charger and only standard equipment. I plan to use the leaf as my "city car" - which will likely get limited use as I'm retired and no longer commute to work.

My thought is that having the Leaf will allow me to use the ClipperCreek EV charging station (40amp) that is installed in my garage, and serve me pretty well for around town driving.

The question is based on learning more about the 2013 since I've not owned one for nearly 3 years. What do I need to be aware of before buying the car? Has the battery held up for most owners (I've read that the 2014 and subsequent batteries were upgraded versus the 2013)? I also prefer the faster 6.6KW charger, but it isn't a real problem to charge it overnight since I won't have to charge it during the day most of the time.

I also would like to use the hatchback to carry my bicycles to the local parks, etc.
I've found a one owner car model S with 15K miles from a non-Nissan dealer for $8,500 or so, and the Nissan dealer is a bit higher - closer to $10,500.

I'm not too concerned about further depreciation, but without a warranty I am concerned about battery and other issues. Any comments are appreciated.

Thank you in advance.
 
Make sure the car was built no earlier than April of 2013 - older 2013 builds have the old battery chemistry. The 3.3kw onboard charger should be fine if you plan to charge overnight at home. The resistance heater in the S will work fine for short distance travel, but you would be able to remotely access the climate control if you got an un-optioned SV instead, which would also give you the larger charger. These 'stripper' SVs go for almost as little as the S with Charge package. You also get cruise control which the S lacked in 2013. The same build date issue applies to all models in 2013.

I know the S should be fine for you. I'm just making sure you understand your choices.
 
I've been happy with my model S so far. My impression is that very little has changed from 2011 to 2015. They took away charging to 80%, which is a pain, but the batteries are better after 4/2013. If you aren't driving it very far and in your mild climate you might be fine even with a pretty degraded battery and you could get a good deal on it used. As for being out of warranty, if you buy a used one that is still under factory warranty then you can buy the extended warranty before the 3/36 runs out. Otherwise, the reliability statistics are good, but it's always a gamble. Good luck.
 
lencap said:
After the lease ended I leased a 2014 BMW i3 ReX, an EV with an onboard generator fueled by a 2 gallon gas tank. The BMW was a more enjoyable car to drive (sorry, not meaning to be offensive), but it suffered from several electrical and other issues, especially poor range in cold weather.
I'm not surprised about your i3 issues. The i3 REx is a POS from a reliability POV. I cannot recommend anyone lease or buy one. And, I'd tell anyone to dump it once the warranty expires, unless they're willing to pay for an extended warranty. When that ends, dump it. Keeping it means the possibility of it being a money pit.

I'd wager you suffered from at least a check engine light, drivetrain malfunction and possibly even a breakdown that required a tow/flatbed truck. And, if you were unlucky, a restraint system malfunction and a faulty charging handle lock mechanism.
lencap said:
Has the battery held up for most owners (I've read that the 2014 and subsequent batteries were upgraded versus the 2013)? I also prefer the faster 6.6KW charger, but it isn't a real problem to charge it overnight since I won't have to charge it during the day most of the time.
Yep, as others mentioned, '13 Leafs built on/after 4/2013 seem to have better batteries from a degradation POV.

6.6 kW OBC is nice. Lets me pick up more juice quickly from free public L2 charging as well as charge more quickly at work, tie up a handle for less time and plug in much later (when there are definitely open plugs).
lencap said:
I've found a one owner car model S with 15K miles from a non-Nissan dealer for $8,500 or so, and the Nissan dealer is a bit higher - closer to $10,500.
As you've noticed, Nissan franchise dealers have a big markup. Have you checked Craigslist? Know of any non-Nissan franchise dealers in your area that pick them up from Manheim auctions (http://press.manheim.com/2010-07-27-Manheim-partners-with-nissan-motor-acceptance-corp-And-infiniti-financial-services-to-create-a-better-faster-way-to-turn-off-lease-inventory-into-sales)?

Definitely use Leaf Spy on it and run a Carfax and/or Autocheck to see where it resided before. Assuming you don't want to go w/the battery "lottery" result, you want one that resided in a cooler climate.
 
You don't actually need 6.6kW charger, especially if you have another vehicle available.
In time, it will have less and less value as DC-stations will be more and more common.
Don't pay too much for that feature.

You definitely need to have the new furnace with air PTC element.
Look for HEAT button on climate control panel. That should be available on 2013 models and newer.
Some sell 2013 Leafs that were manufactured in 2012. Be absolutely sure you get the newer model
no matter what. No hump in the boot, HEAT button, D/B driving modes available.
Check for battery degradation. Capacity bars, instrument cluster.
 
No hump in the boot, HEAT button, D/B driving modes available.

The 2013 S doesn't have B mode. I was reminded of this recently myself. No cruise control, no B mode. Backup camera was optional on all 2013 models, not standard.
 
arnis said:
You don't actually need 6.6kW charger, especially if you have another vehicle available.
In time, it will have less and less value as DC-stations will be more and more common.
Don't pay too much for that feature.
Need? Hmmm... nobody really needs it, but the 6.6 kW OBC helps a lot. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23594&p=487347&hilit=later#p487347.

As for the bolded part, I disagree and say, don't pay too much for a CHAdeMO inlet.

See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=21371&p=451274&hilit=evgo+prius#p451274, which I've posted over and over (e.g. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=445110#p445110 about costs). I have no DC FC at work. I have no free DC FCing anywhere near/on the way home from work. I'm not keen on paying $1K to $1.5K extra (back when I was in the market) for a vehicle w/an CHAdeMO inlet of marginal utility where it is so expensive so charge with that I can fuel my Prius for less.

On my former leased Leaf, I used its CHAdeMO inlet about 16 times over a 2 year period. I didn't really need to any of those times. All 3 of the free DC FCs I used back then are no longer free.

$1000 at $4/gal buys 250 gallons of gas. If I only got 40 mpg on my Prius, that 250 gallons propels it 10,000 miles.
 
I have 3.3kW charger and drive 20 000 miles per year. All I need is 4-5 hours of DC charging per year.
Absolutely no need for 6.6kW charger if you can charge at 30-45kW rate.
As far as I've heard, A LOT OF EV owners in US are extremely happy on Level1, which is 3x slower than on
normal 3,3kW charger.

6.6kW charger would eliminate about 5% of my DC needs and would reduce my ICE car usage from 1000 miles
per year to maybe 800 miles per year.

Like I said, I drive 20 000 miles per year.

I can buy 3160kWh at DC station with the money I would waste on 6.6kW charger.
This is 18500km in terms of mileage , or 11 thousand miles. And DC is still much faster than 6.6kW EVSE.
 
I could be wrong, but I believe the DCQC port and 6 kW charger were an optional package deal on S trim in 2013 so you either had the 3.3 kW charger only or the 6 kW charger and DCQC (at least in USA). Although the 3.3 kW charger was adequate on my 2011, the 6 kW charger on my 2015 allows for fairly quick charges at home on weekends if I need to run extra errands.
 
LeftieBiker said:
No hump in the boot, HEAT button, D/B driving modes available.

The 2013 S doesn't have B mode. I was reminded of this recently myself. No cruise control, no B mode. Backup camera was optional on all 2013 models, not standard.
Correct, again B mode basically seems to be tied into the ECO mode, when ECO is on you get lots more B. Of course if you wanted B without the ECO features you'd be SOL with a '13S. Also the backup camera is tied into the charger upgrade on the '13S, no charger upgrade no backup camera(whose screen is quite small compared to a Leaf w/nav).
 
Anyone who says that the 6.6 charger is a waste of money cant be serious.

Maybe YOU drive only a few miles per day and have no problem plugging into 120v all night. Don't be so egocentric.

The 6.6 charger, for people who drive in several directions daily, is what makes the Leaf a useful vehicle. I can drive 70 miles in the day for work, come home in the afternoon, plug in, and drive another 70 miles during the evening. I then come home at midnight-1am, plug in, and am ready at 100% in the morning.

Also, I can plug into all the FREE charging stations in the US for 2 hours for a full charge. What person with a 3.3 will go to a mall and shop for 8 hours to charge their car????

For the price that you may pay for a used Leaf with the QC and 6.6 charger, you will have many more interested customers in the car if you sell it. Personally, I WOULD NOT, in my wildest dreams, buy a 3.3 Leaf. Its like buying a car with no doors.
 
powersurge said:
Anyone who says that the 6.6 charger is a waste of money cant be serious.

Maybe YOU drive only a few miles per day and have no problem plugging into 120v all night. Don't be so egocentric.

The 6.6 charger, for people who drive in several directions daily, is what makes the Leaf a useful vehicle. I can drive 70 miles in the day for work, come home in the afternoon, plug in, and drive another 70 miles during the evening. I then come home at midnight-1am, plug in, and am ready at 100% in the morning.

Also, I can plug into all the FREE charging stations in the US for 2 hours for a full charge. What person with a 3.3 will go to a mall and shop for 8 hours to charge their car????

For the price that you may pay for a used Leaf with the QC and 6.6 charger, you will have many more interested customers in the car if you sell it. Personally, I WOULD NOT, in my wildest dreams, buy a 3.3 Leaf. Its like buying a car with no doors.

Your statement is a bit misleading and a great number of LEAF sales are 3.3 models and suit the needs of those drivers. Your habits and needs do not reflect the general population of all drivers. I'm also curious how you get a full charge on a LEAF in two hours, that math does not add up even in a 24Kwh pack at a 208 or 240VV public station.
 
GerryAZ said:
I could be wrong, but I believe the DCQC port and 6 kW charger were an optional package deal on S trim in 2013 so you either had the 3.3 kW charger only or the 6 kW charger and DCQC (at least in USA). Although the 3.3 kW charger was adequate on my 2011, the 6 kW charger on my 2015 allows for fairly quick charges at home on weekends if I need to run extra errands.
Correct and agree on the last point.

On the '13 SV and SL, 6.6 kW OBC is standard, regardless of whether the CHAdeMO inlet's present.
 
powersurge said:
Anyone who says that the 6.6 charger is a waste of money cant be serious.

Maybe YOU drive only a few miles per day and have no problem plugging into 120v all night. Don't be so egocentric.
I drive "only 20 000 miles" per year. I bet this is "a little" more than people usually do with their Leafs :roll:
I can easily manage with 3.3kW charger. Even 2kW trickle charger would be almost as good. 1kW US trickle definitely not
fine for 20 000 miles per year. Most of the charging happens overnight with cheaper electricity price. I don't care does it take
3 hours or 5 hours. When I go further I'm not near home, I don't plan to rapid charge at 6kW speed, I use DC.



Correct, again B mode basically seems to be tied into the ECO mode, when ECO is on you get lots more B. Of course if you wanted B without the ECO features you'd be SOL with a '13S. Also the backup camera is tied into the charger upgrade on the '13S, no charger upgrade no backup camera(whose screen is quite small compared to a Leaf w/nav).

AFAIK Leafs with no B mode had extremely bad regen availability (even in ECO) and it went worse after firmware update.
All Leafs with B mode definitely had already better battery with normal regen.
"charger upgrade" means charger under hood not in the trunk? That trunk charger is not only taking space, it also appears to have
fault. I've read multiple threads about trunk charger starting to smell and overheat. Especially important for vehicle without warranty.

I would avoid 2013 SL if it had that old-school furnace or charger or battery (any of that is extremely inferior) and rather take 2014 S for the same money. I would also suggest people not preferring new infotainment system over the classical one (2011-2015) as it is worse in many many ways (offtopic, just adding). And also surround view does make much less sense than rearview camera. I've tried both and pushing all data on that small screen makes things worse. Plus rearview camera is not widescreen nor full screen, rather horizontal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCpTx1mSgg
Sorry for shake, had to do everything in a hurry.
 
arnis said:
Correct, again B mode basically seems to be tied into the ECO mode, when ECO is on you get lots more B. Of course if you wanted B without the ECO features you'd be SOL with a '13S. Also the backup camera is tied into the charger upgrade on the '13S, no charger upgrade no backup camera(whose screen is quite small compared to a Leaf w/nav).

AFAIK Leafs with no B mode had extremely bad regen availability (even in ECO) and it went worse after firmware update.
All Leafs with B mode definitely had already better battery with normal regen.
"charger upgrade" means charger under hood not in the trunk? That trunk charger is not only taking space, it also appears to have
fault. I've read multiple threads about trunk charger starting to smell and overheat. Especially important for vehicle without warranty.

I would avoid 2013 SL if it had that old-school furnace or charger or battery (any of that is extremely inferior) and rather take 2014 S for the same money. I would also suggest people not preferring new infotainment system over the classical one (2011-2015) as it is worse in many many ways (offtopic, just adding). And also surround view does make much less sense than rearview camera. I've tried both and pushing all data on that small screen makes things worse. Plus rearview camera is not widescreen nor full screen, rather horizontal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbCpTx1mSgg
Sorry for shake, had to do everything in a hurry.
I believe bad regen has more to do with a degraded battery than anything else. Using ECO on my '13S I get very good regen, on anything lower than ~95% I generally get full bubbles of regen, for sure in low 90s I get full regen, unless it's extremely cold in which case my dash shows full bubbles available but the cold sensor makes those unavailable to me :(
My '12SL(again no B mode but ECO mode) has quite poor regen, bubbles or available. ECO mode does give a tad more regen but barely, non-ECO gives basically no regen and the car just coasts.
The charger in the trunk went away with the '12 model year in N. America, from then on it's been under the hood regardless of trim level.
Not sure your point on the cameras but on my '13S the camera screen is quite small, it's shared with the radio screen. My '12SL without surround cameras is much bigger than the '13S, at least double the size I'd guess. The '12SL also has nice lines that well me approximately where I'm going to go, the '13S lacks those lines. Personally I don't really use the cameras that much, just pointing it out for those that care.
 
Using ECO on my '13S I get very good regen, on anything lower than ~95% I generally get full bubbles of regen, for sure in low 90s I get full regen,

Yep. This is the normal behavior. At 95% usually all bubbles are available. In 3 temp bars maybe down to 90%.

When "HEAT" button appeared in US on CC panel? That should mean air PTC element is used rather than unreliable water kettle.
 
arnis said:
I would avoid 2013 SL if it had that old-school furnace or charger or battery (any of that is extremely inferior) and rather take 2014 S for the same money.
'13 thru '15 SV and SL have the hybrid heater w/heat pump. '13 thru '15 S ONLY have a resistance heater, which people report is better than the crap water block heater in the '11 and '12 (regardless of trim).

Regarding batteries, it seems that '13 Leafs built 4/2013 and later have better batteries. '14 Leafs presumably have the same batteries as the 4/2013 and later '13 Leafs.
arnis said:
I would also suggest people not preferring new infotainment system over the classical one (2011-2015) as it is worse in many many ways (offtopic, just adding). And also surround view does make much less sense than rearview camera. I've tried both and pushing all data on that small screen makes things worse. Plus rearview camera is not widescreen nor full screen, rather horizontal
This thread is the first time I've ever heard anyone suggest that the rearview camera only is better than Around View Monitor. I completely disagree.

AVM lets me see how well I'm positioned within a parking space as well as how close I am to the curb and side of my garage. Rearview camera only is useless for all that.

The rearview camera on my 06 Prius wasn't terrible like what Leftie's alluded to with a '13 PiP, but it's still WAY inferior to AVM.

From looking at the specs tab of these (searching for rear):
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2013-nissan-leaf-press-kit
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2014-nissan-leaf-press-kit
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/presskits/us-2015-nissan-leaf-press-kit

It looks like on '13 S, rear view monitor was optional on the S. It came w/the part of the "Charge Package: 6.6 kW onboard charger (6 kW output), quick charge port, RearView Monitor". It was unavailable on '13 SV and SL. You had to get Around View Monitor on those, as part of the premium package.

For '14 and '15, regardless of trim, rearview monitor became standard and '14 and '15 AVM availability is the same as for the '13 (on SV and SL trims).
 
arnis said:
When "HEAT" button appeared in US on CC panel? That should mean air PTC element is used rather than unreliable water kettle.
Dedicated heater on/off button became available starting w/model year 2013, regardless of trim level.
 
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