2013 Leaf SV losing battery capacity checked with LeafSpy lite

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LeftieBiker said:
It appears that you are close to qualifying for a new pack. Check the car's build date on the door sticker: I'd bet serious money that it was built between January and March (including March) of 2013. Those early build packs apparently used the old 2011-2012 battery chemistry, albeit in the same new package as the rest of the 2013 cars, and they lose capacity fast.


Sigh, wish I had seen this info sooner. Thought I did enough research before buying my 2013 Leaf this past weekend, knew I wanted a 2013 but didn't realize how much build date matters. I got one with a 3/2013 build date. :(

Anyways my info from LeafSpy that I was feeling fine about:
Mileage: 18,019
AHr: 54.65
SOH: 83%
Hx: 79.37%

Can't see how I'll hit 4 dropped bars in 11 months as I'm still at 12 of 12 waiting to drop the first any day now.

At least the rest of the car is in great shape.
 
I was responding to Swamibob, whose Leaf had l dropped to nine bars at the time. If your car has lost only one bar, it's at least possible that yours was built right at the end of March, and got the newer chemistry...
 
LeftieBiker said:
I was responding to Swamibob, whose Leaf had l dropped to nine bars at the time. If your car has lost only one bar, it's at least possible that yours was built right at the end of March, and got the newer chemistry...

Oh I hope I didn't come across as blaming anyone! Just bummed at myself, I thought I had all the info and was ready to buy.

Is there a definitive way to know which battery pack/chemistry a vehicle has?

From my understanding there are three variants of battery in the 2011-2015 (2016 S) cars. I know of Gen 1 (2011- 3/2013) Gen 2 (3/2013 - 2014) Lizard (2014-current as a replacement)
 
I know of a 2013 SL with a build of Feb 2013 showing 12 bars??? I haven't yet been able to check the stats through LeafSpy but would like to soon. Wondering what the odds of this being the original battery pack? The Carfax and the Nissan service dealer do not show that a new 'Lizzard' pack installed... so is it possible that they reset the BSM?

Also, I sat in a 2015 SL this weekend that only had 12K miles but already had one bar lost and LS showed the SOH at 84%. That seems soon for that model year... wonder what the owner did to trash the battery that quickly. LS showed only 2 QC's and 498 L1/L2 charges.

Both vehicles were Chicago area vehicles.
 
I don't see how a 2015 Leaf residing in Chicago could drop a bar that fast. It must have spent some time someplace HOT. As for the 2013, keep in mind that if a reset was recent, LeafSpy may not be able to spot it. In that case the stats would likely be suspiciously good - close to new. As I told Brisco in a PM, the only way I know of to check the pack origin is to get the VIN and have a friendly Nissan dealer pull the service records. A pack replacement should show there.
 
I did speak with a service tech regarding the 2013 and he said he didn't show a battery replacement anywhere in it's history so the reset may be more likely. I'd like to attach Leaf Spy to see what it shows. I'll post the results here if I do...
 
briscobully said:
I know of a 2013 SL with a build of Feb 2013 showing 12 bars??? I haven't yet been able to check the stats through LeafSpy but would like to soon. Wondering what the odds of this being the original battery pack? The Carfax and the Nissan service dealer do not show that a new 'Lizzard' pack installed... so is it possible that they reset the BSM?

Also, I sat in a 2015 SL this weekend that only had 12K miles but already had one bar lost and LS showed the SOH at 84%. That seems soon for that model year... wonder what the owner did to trash the battery that quickly. LS showed only 2 QC's and 498 L1/L2 charges.

Both vehicles were Chicago area vehicles.

There is a 2013 SV for sale at one of my local dealerships with around 5900 original miles (verified) and it still shows 12 bars. It looks like it has been in Texas its whole life as well and I can't find any evidence of the pack being replaced. I'm thinking about going up there to look at it tomorrow.
 
Have the dealership send you a pic of the door sticker to see the build date and be leery of anything before April (or safer May) 2013 based on all the other posts on this forum. They could have reset the BSM. Is it offered at a Nissan dealership? What is there asking price?
 
Have the dealership send you a pic of the door sticker to see the build date and be leery of anything before April (or safer May) 2013 based on all the other posts on this forum.

While I understand the desire for a safety margin, we have yet to see an April 2013 build with a Canary pack. I drive an April build and have yet to lose a bar. I think it's more likely there are a few March builds with what I'm now calling the "Wolf Pack"* (4/2013-2015 builds) than it is that there are later builds with the bad chemistry.





* Wolves are strong, tough animals who do well in any temps except sustained high ones.
 
I'm dying to get to that 2013 SL with the Feb 2013 build date and LeafSpy it! Is it possible that a Feb build with 26k miles realistically showing 12 bars still?
 
briscobully said:
I'm dying to get to that 2013 SL with the Feb 2013 build date and LeafSpy it! Is it possible that a Feb build with 26k miles realistically showing 12 bars still?
Possible ? Sure
Likely ? I think not

LeafSpy will not clue you in to a reset. Only a decent range test drive* (say, of at least 30 miles) would let you sort out the real battery health.


*
Reset the trip meter for the test drive. This will also show you the consumption rate (in miles/kWh) for the test drive.
kWh = 1/consumption rate * distance traveled
Compare the SoC drop of the test drive to the kWh consumed. A battery in good shape drops less than 5% SoC per kWh
 
briscobully said:
I know of a 2013 SL with a build of Feb 2013 showing 12 bars??? I haven't yet been able to check the stats through LeafSpy but would like to soon. Wondering what the odds of this being the original battery pack? The Carfax and the Nissan service dealer do not show that a new 'Lizzard' pack installed... so is it possible that they reset the BSM?

Also, I sat in a 2015 SL this weekend that only had 12K miles but already had one bar lost and LS showed the SOH at 84%. That seems soon for that model year... wonder what the owner did to trash the battery that quickly. LS showed only 2 QC's and 498 L1/L2 charges.

Both vehicles were Chicago area vehicles.

If the 2013 were driven and charged with ideal conditions (some QCs and no top off charges), it is possible that the 12-bar display is legitimate.

The 2015 was likely driven short distances at low speeds and plugged in after every trip so that it spent a lot of time at full charge. With SOH at 84% it is likely that it recently lost the capacity bar. The AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers as displayed by Leaf Spy might improve with some deep discharges, quick charges, and highway driving. The Leaf Spy numbers always improve for a while after QCs on my 2015 and drop when driven slowly on surface streets with no highway driving for a few charge cycles. The numbers go back up when I resume my normal commute which includes freeway driving.
 
GerryAZ said:
briscobully said:
I know of a 2013 SL with a build of Feb 2013 showing 12 bars??? I haven't yet been able to check the stats through LeafSpy but would like to soon. Wondering what the odds of this being the original battery pack? The Carfax and the Nissan service dealer do not show that a new 'Lizzard' pack installed... so is it possible that they reset the BSM?

Also, I sat in a 2015 SL this weekend that only had 12K miles but already had one bar lost and LS showed the SOH at 84%. That seems soon for that model year... wonder what the owner did to trash the battery that quickly. LS showed only 2 QC's and 498 L1/L2 charges.

Both vehicles were Chicago area vehicles.

If the 2013 were driven and charged with ideal conditions (some QCs and no top off charges), it is possible that the 12-bar display is legitimate.

The 2015 was likely driven short distances at low speeds and plugged in after every trip so that it spent a lot of time at full charge. With SOH at 84% it is likely that it recently lost the capacity bar. The AHr, SOH, and Hx numbers as displayed by Leaf Spy might improve with some deep discharges, quick charges, and highway driving. The Leaf Spy numbers always improve for a while after QCs on my 2015 and drop when driven slowly on surface streets with no highway driving for a few charge cycles. The numbers go back up when I resume my normal commute which includes freeway driving.

That seems counterintuitive to me as I thought EV's were better for more stop-and-go situations as opposed to highway driving? This also means if someone selling their Leaf does some fast charging before I connect LeafSpy it will make it hard to tell the true battery condition. Still a newbie so learning a lot with every new post read; Thanks much to all!
 
LeftieBiker said:
QC won't produce more than a few percent rise in SOH.

Well, no. More like up to 4% for each QC, usually less, depending on temperature and more. I've never seen more than about 12% total, but can't exclude more on a Leaf with less battery capacity than mine.

How many QC's on a Leaf have you done, Leftie?
 
The changes in SOH seen with QC use are not known to result in more driving range -- you know, the thing that actually matters.
 
EVs are great for stop and go driving and range drops at highway speeds, but the high current draw during highway driving followed by high current charging will improve Leaf Spy numbers (at least on 2015).
 
SageBrush said:
briscobully said:
I'm dying to get to that 2013 SL with the Feb 2013 build date and LeafSpy it! Is it possible that a Feb build with 26k miles realistically showing 12 bars still?
Possible ? Sure
Likely ? I think not

LeafSpy will not clue you in to a reset. Only a decent range test drive* (say, of at least 30 miles) would let you sort out the real battery health.


*
Reset the trip meter for the test drive. This will also show you the consumption rate (in miles/kWh) for the test drive.
kWh = 1/consumption rate * distance traveled
Compare the SoC drop of the test drive to the kWh consumed. A battery in good shape drops less than 5% SoC per kWh

So I may have convinced the sales rep to bring the car to me (long story) is there anything I can have them do that will help me with testing the battery as explained above? He's got about a 20 mile trip to me and don't know if I will have time to do another 30 miles to check it out. Thx
 
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