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ByeFO said:
TreeStar said:
I've been researching the 2017 versions of these cars quite a bit lately. The Leaf has absolutely amazing rebates right now. To the tune of $15,000+. Anyone know why that is?
How much of that figure is from Nissan? Maybe the incentives are regional. Can you say where you are located?

I looked at Nissan USA for my area and the best I could do from Nissan was $4,000 and that is if it is financed through NMAC (Nissan financed).

All of it..... $15,350 in rebates right off the top. Well, $2,000 in discount, $13,350 in rebates. They keep the tax credit. This is not a factor with how much I put down on it. Glastone Nissan. I forgot what they changed the name to. A guy's name. Dick Hannah?


After thinking about this more, it seems as if I should put less down if I don't plan on keeping the car. As this sits now (until the end of the month... oh, it's over. Not sure what will happen with incentives next month) but putting $6k down and $104.27 month and the car can be financed for $11,395.
 
TreeStar said:
After thinking about this more, it seems as if I should put less down if I don't plan on keeping the car.
If you are leasing, put $0 down. Sure, your monthly payments will be higher and you will pay a little more in interest over the life of the lease, but if you total the car, you get none of your payments nor the down payment back. It's not worth the risk.

You should NEVER be comparing leases only by monthly payment. Look at the total cost of the lease over its entire life, including all taxes, fees, etc.
 
cwerdna said:
TreeStar said:
After thinking about this more, it seems as if I should put less down if I don't plan on keeping the car.
If you are leasing, put $0 down. Sure, your monthly payments will be higher and you will pay a little more in interest over the life of the lease, but if you total the car, you get none of your payments nor the down payment back. It's not worth the risk.

You should NEVER be comparing leases only by monthly payment. Look at the total cost of the lease over its entire life, including all taxes, fees, etc.


Good advice. It seems with a case of so much incentive, long term options should be heavily considered.

I was going to have them do my paperwork over with less down. I'm really wanting under $200 /month.
 
TreeStar said:
I was going to have them do my paperwork over with less down. I'm really wanting under $200 /month.
Less down on a lease should be $0 down. It is not worth the risk to have a "feel good" low monthly payment.

Put aside that former down payment $ somewhere and start paying monthly payments out of that first.
TreeStar said:
The residual value (Nissan wholesale price) will be $8,714 after the lease.
No. That is the residual value. That's the agreed upon price for which you can pay to buy out the car at lease end. That may be higher or lower than the car's actual value at the end of lease.

If the residual's too high vs. market value, Nissan/NMAC may offer discounts or you may be able to get your buyout price lower. If not, then too many cars will get returned at end of lease, flooding the market, depressing their value.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=494478#p494478 was my situation when my 2 year lease ended in July 2015. The process has changed w/NMAC vs. dealers now near/at lease end.

I mentioned how much my former '13 SV w/both packages sold for at auction at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=436707#p436707 and http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=435924#p435924. Obviously, Nissan/NMAC was WAY off on residual value. It may have been intentional given that a high residual == cheaper lease to the customer.

If the residual's lower than market value, you win. You can buy the car for the residual then turn around and sell it for more $ than you paid to buy it.
 
cwerdna said:
[Obviously, Nissan/NMAC was WAY off on residual value. It may have been intentional given that a high residual == cheaper lease to the customer.
In the olde tdays the residual value (RV) was the manufacturer's best guess at auction value; today is is just a marketing ploy to set the monthly payment at a value the market will bear. And as you point out in the case of the LEAF, Nissan has been losing money hand over fist at lease end.
 
cwerdna said:
TreeStar said:
I was going to have them do my paperwork over with less down. I'm really wanting under $200 /month.
Less down on a lease should be $0 down. It is not worth the risk to have a "feel good" low monthly payment.

Put aside that former down payment $ somewhere and start paying monthly payments out of that first.
TreeStar said:
The residual value (Nissan wholesale price) will be $8,714 after the lease.
No. That is the residual value. That's the agreed upon price for which you can pay to buy out the car at lease end. That may be higher or lower than the car's actual value at the end of lease.

You're saying to take my down payment money and hold on to it to use as monthly payments on the car? As in risk you mean if I wreck the thing?

So if I put $2,000 down my monthly payment would be around $270.

It seems as if most of my concerns are concerns that would be there with buying/leasing any car. The electric part took some coming to terms with, but I think I'm good on that. Especially after hearing the encouraging things here in regard to the area I live in with having an EV.
 
The only reason to put any money down on a lease is to get a lower money factor (interest rate) or lower total cost of lease (fees waved or lowered). All other things being equal, put zero down as suggested. If putting some money down will get you a better deal (not just a lower payment) then only put down as much as you are willing to risk losing if the car is totaled.
 
LeftieBiker said:
The only reason to put any money down on a lease is to get a lower money factor (interest rate) or lower total cost of lease (fees waved or lowered). All other things being equal, put zero down as suggested. If putting some money down will get you a better deal (not just a lower payment) then only put down as much as you are willing to risk losing if the car is totaled.

My reason is to have a lower monthly payment.

I'm not really a guy who needs to have fancy things and this car might be a tad much for me, but with the job I'm planning on getting it's affordable. I've considered just buying a used car and owning it, but then there's the factor of it breaking/costing money/time away from work to fix. Having a newer car is a form of insurance. An older car is going to depreciate as well so that's part of the "expense". So perhaps it is in my best interest to get a new car that's extremely "fuel efficient". My vehicle expense will be fairly low.

I still might even buy it when the lease is over.
 
TreeStar said:
You're saying to take my down payment money and hold on to it to use as monthly payments on the car? As in risk you mean if I wreck the thing?

So if I put $2,000 down my monthly payment would be around $270.

It seems as if most of my concerns are concerns that would be there with buying/leasing any car.
Yes.

If you wreck the car the day you leave the dealer w/the car, you are out $2K. You won't get it back. If you put $0 down and wreck it before the 1st monthly payment's due, you aren't out anything. After 1st month's payment, you'd be out either $2,270 in case 1 or whatever the 1st monthly payment is in case 2 (let's call it $325).

Yes, this whole thing about putting little to nothing down on lease is not EV specific.
 
TreeStar said:
My reason is to have a lower monthly payment.
Why? Is it for a psychological "feel good" lower monthly payment? Don't do that. It's not worth the risk.

If you put $ down, you still have come up with that $ upfront. As I said, instead put that $ away in savings, CD, etc. and do NOT withdraw anything from it except to pay the monthly payments on the car.

But yes, as I said, you will pay a little less over the life of the lease if you put $ down, due less in total interest costs over the life of the lease.
 
Just to restate my position. Cwerdna is right, but if you want a lower payment, and if you are willing to risk losing $2k then put $2k down. Most people don't total their leased cars, but some do. It's a financial risk, so treat it as one. If you won't be hurting if you lose the $2k, don't worry about it. Just be aware that it's a gamble.
 
I'll probably put enough down to get my payments under $300.

It was mentioned that the batteries have shown to be somewhat problematic? Losing bars?

It's really tempting to buy one used, but I want a longer range than what they have.
 
TreeStar said:
I'll probably put enough down to get my payments under $300.
You should calculate the total cost of the lease for the $0 down case vs. whatever you plan to put down.

Then ask yourself, are the savings over total cost of lease worth losing all $ paid so far (down payment + all payments thus far), if the car is totaled.
TreeStar said:
It was mentioned that the batteries have shown to be somewhat problematic? Losing bars?
You're in Oregon, amongst the mildest climate for temperature-based battery capacity loss.

The guy at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1554436631254435/ is at 90.1K miles and still has all 12 bars on his '13. The previous record I'd heard of (at least for the US) was 1 bar gone at 89K miles at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1425820484116051/?comment_id=1426820437349389&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D.

I'm still at 12 bars on my used '13 at almost 45K miles that was built 5/2013 that I bought in July 2015. From Leaf Spy stats, I've been creeping closer to losing a bar. I'm not in nearly as mild of climate as Oregon. In contrast, this is what Phoenix does to a Leaf built the same month: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995.

Did we already point you to https://www.facebook.com/notes/162244573806988/A%20Guide%20for%20Buying%20a%20Used%20LEAF/1100737373291032/?

Unfortunately, it seems like the 30 kWh batteries in '16+ SV and SL, '16 "S 30" and '17+ Leafs aren't holding up that well in terms of capacity loss. Either those folks have defective batteries or Nissan took a step back compared to batteries in 4/2013+ built thru model year '15 Leafs. Leaf from '11 thru '15 was always 24 kWh.

The only good thing is that the 30 kWh batteries have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty (if you're down to 8 bars, they'll replace it udner warranty) vs 5 years/60K miles on the 24 kWh. Problem is, we don't know if the capacity percentages for each bar are still the same on the 30 kWh Leafs. Before, down to 8 bars == a bit over 30% capacity loss.
 
cwerdna said:
TreeStar said:
I'll probably put enough down to get my payments under $300.
You should calculate the total cost of the lease for the $0 down case vs. whatever you plan to put down.

Then ask yourself, are the savings over total cost of lease worth losing all $ paid so far (down payment + all payments thus far), if the car is totaled.
TreeStar said:
It was mentioned that the batteries have shown to be somewhat problematic? Losing bars?
You're in Oregon, amongst the mildest climate for temperature-based battery capacity loss.

The guy at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1554436631254435/ is at 90.1K miles and still has all 12 bars on his '13. The previous record I'd heard of (at least for the US) was 1 bar gone at 89K miles at https://www.facebook.com/groups/seattlenissanleaf/permalink/1425820484116051/?comment_id=1426820437349389&comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D.

I'm still at 12 bars on my used '13 at almost 45K miles that was built 5/2013 that I bought in July 2015. From Leaf Spy stats, I've been creeping closer to losing a bar. I'm not in nearly as mild of climate as Oregon. In contrast, this is what Phoenix does to a Leaf built the same month: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=473995#p473995.

Did we already point you to https://www.facebook.com/notes/162244573806988/A%20Guide%20for%20Buying%20a%20Used%20LEAF/1100737373291032/?

Unfortunately, it seems like the 30 kWh batteries in '16+ SV and SL, '16 "S 30" and '17+ Leafs aren't holding up that well in terms of capacity loss. Either those folks have defective batteries or Nissan took a step back compared to batteries in 4/2013+ built thru model year '15 Leafs. Leaf from '11 thru '15 was always 24 kWh.

The only good thing is that the 30 kWh batteries have an 8 year/100K capacity warranty (if you're down to 8 bars, they'll replace it udner warranty) vs 5 years/60K miles on the 24 kWh. Problem is, we don't know if the capacity percentages for each bar are still the same on the 30 kWh Leafs. Before, down to 8 bars == a bit over 30% capacity loss.

Great response.

The battery issue I recall reading was from the newer models.

I would love to buy a used one, but that range. What are they getting in real world conditions? They are rated at 84, right? I based a recent trip (I posted about here) on a car with a 90 mile range (to be on the safe side) and would have had no extra issues on this trip. I mean it wouldn't have caused a problem where I was needing to charge somewhere and wait. I could have charged at a destination.

The difference from a 2013 to a 2017 is about $10,000.
 
You might get 70 miles from a 2013 now. Or you might not. If you look at those, make sure you only consider cars built after 3/2013 (April builds are fine). Or find an early 2013 that has three or four bars lost, and has enough time left on the capacity warranty to lose a total of four.
 
I traded in my 2008 prius for 2015 leaf. The leaf is a blast in comparison, and I use 0% gas instead of 100% gas. The battery range of even the new prius is laughable if I remember.
Have you looked at the Chevy Volt as a choice?
 
LeftieBiker said:
You might get 70 miles from a 2013 now. Or you might not. If you look at those, make sure you only consider cars built after 3/2013 (April builds are fine). Or find an early 2013 that has three or four bars lost, and has enough time left on the capacity warranty to lose a total of four.

That's probably enough range for most of my needs. I mean it is enough for most of my needs. 260 days (work days) of the year I only commute 26 miles a day. I've mentioned this elsewhere in this thread, but it's getting long now.

But if these make such a good used car, then the newer ones will make good used cars too. And with that $15,000 in incentives, that's a great chuck of the initial depreciation. So I can lease for 2 years then finance $11,395 for the remainder of the car.
 
So I can lease for 2 years then finance $11,395 for the remainder of the car

$300 x 24 months = $7,200 + $2000 down = $9,200

That's the full cost of a 2013 SV + QC in your market.

I don't get it - why lease when you can own basically the same car after 2 years of the same payments and enjoy it from then on for next to nothing per month ($20 for electricity + insurance).
 
I don't get it - why lease when you can own basically the same car after 2 years of the same payments and enjoy it from then on for next to nothing per month ($20 for electricity + insurance).

That's basically the same car with a brand new warranty, a 25% larger battery that should have as much range after five years as a good 2013 has now, and a longer battery warranty. I wouldn't spend more than $7k for a 2013 now, and I'd consider leasing a 2017 SV with premium if it were $200 a month, with a $9-10k residual. Some of us want peace of mind as much as we want a bargain.
 
The incentives are not as good on the SV. It's a more expensive car with less off.

I like the app control and the wheels are better, but whatever. That's not worth it to me for the SV.
 
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